The Pulverizor - 20 WF Kensai Warhammer Fighter

[Logic]

Nothing super complex, basically a 20 WF Kensai Warhammer Fighter with all the expected feats.

Notable traits:
Dual wield 5% weighted warhammers
Passive stuns (10% fighter capstone alacrity and fighter haste enhancements)
DC48 stunning blow (higher with +8str insight fighter bonus)
Regular attack for ~55 damage with +5 weighted warhammer (18-20x3 crit)
Crit attack for ~190 damage
737 unbuffed HP



55.5 average main hand damage with weighted wep (47.5 off hand)
4.5 average warhammer damage
+4 Weapon specialization & greater weapon specialization blunt feats
+2 Warhammer specialization enhancements
+2 Kensai I and Kensai II
+17 str (44 str with rage spell and madstone)
+5 weapon
+8 power attack
+4 Tod Rings
+9 bard buffs

190.5 main hand/166.5 off hand crit damage
55.5 main hand/47.5 off hand
Seeker +14 (epic maralith chain + Kenasi I & II) (if dwarf)
Seeker +8 (menatau goggles + Kensai I & II ) (if WF)



Stunning blow DC 48
10 base
10 weighted 5%
17 str (44 str with rage spell and madstone)
1 fighter past life
3 kensai enhancements
4 fighter enhancements
3 WF enhancements

737 HP
20 base
200 fighter
132 (toughness feat x6)
40 (fighter toughness enhancements)
40 (WF toughness enhancements)
10 rep
30 GFL
45 GS
220 con bonus (with 32 con)


Starting stats (34 pt WF, one fighter past life)
18 str
15 dex
18 con
8 int
6 wis
6 cha

Ending stats
38 str (18 base + 2 tome + 5 level up + 3 fighter enh + 6 item + 3 exceptional + 1 LotD)
24 dex (15 base + 2 tome + 1 LotD + 6 item)
32 con (18 base + 2 tome + 2 WF enh + 1 LotD + 3 exceptional + 6 item)
11 int (8 + 2 tome + 1 LotD)
15 wis (6 base + 2 tome + 1 LotD + 6 item)
7 cha (6 base + 1 LotD)

Feats
1 Toughness, TWF (fighter)
2 Weapon focus blunt
3 Toughness
4 Weapon specialization blunt (fighter)
5
6 Toughness, ITWF (fighter)
7
8 Power attack (fighter)
9 IC blunt
10 Stunning blow (fighter)
11
12 Toughness, Greater weapon specialization blunt (fighter)
13
14 GTWF (fighter)
15 Toughness
16 Greater weapon focus (blunt)
17
18 Toughness, Superior weapon focus blunt (fighter)
19
20 OTWF

Basically high HP and stunning for epics. Would be better with Epic Hammer of the Leaden Clouds. Could sub out some toughness feats for other feats depending on what you're after. Pretty much finished I think, ahh system reboot coming I gotta log off.

[Bacab]

looks solid....except I am prtty sure Warforged Cannot wear Epic Marilith Chain...

Also I think you could drop a few of the Toughness feats, and take Imp Crit at lvl 9...Though you seem open to dropping some of the Toughness Feats.

[tyrr]

also u may want to consider imp trip between stunning blows otwf might not be needed

[Logic]

also u may want to consider imp trip between stunning blows otwf might not be needed

I had heard improved trip does not work well in epics even if focused on it. I think the improved trip feat also requires combat expertise which requires int. So I'd have to give up 2 toughness feats and some str or con :[

[Logic]

looks solid....except I am prtty sure Warforged Cannot wear Epic Marilith Chain...

Also I think you could drop a few of the Toughness feats, and take Imp Crit at lvl 9...Though you seem open to dropping some of the Toughness Feats.

Oh good call. I couldn't decide between dwarf with maralith chain and higher healing amp, or WF for extra power attack and immunities. I guess I picked both haha

[Logic]

looks solid....except I am prtty sure Warforged Cannot wear Epic Marilith Chain...

Also I think you could drop a few of the Toughness feats, and take Imp Crit at lvl 9...Though you seem open to dropping some of the Toughness Feats.

Oh haha I just read the second half of your post. Yeah I'm very open to the idea of dropping toughness feats as you can tell I don't value them very much :P

[Chai]

This looks like it would be epic quest ready.

[Ulf]

Like the "stunner" tactics build. They can be a lot of fun and if played well a great asset in high end content. However, I think you've definetly got areas of improvement in the build.

A)
7 feats and 20 AP to toughness is excessive
1 feat and 6AP still gives over 600 unbuffed hp

B)
saves are horrible

C)
toHit is gonna be very painful on those epics you're apparently gonna be running. -8 for PA and -1 for no SWF

Suggest going dwarf instead.
-The 6 higher seeker will offset the 3 PA loss.
-wis +2 and dwarven spell D help saves
-drop alot of the toughnesses and get save feats. I go LoH, IW, LR, and maybe Bullhead. Combined with previous will give +8/10 to ref/will save.
-pick up SWF bludgeon and maybe slash spec (use DAxe on fort mobs, take axe enh as well for more dmg)

[Goldeneye]

I currently have a very similar build that just hit Level 20. My TR'd Weighted Warhammer specced fighter. Check out my build: Krythan II in my signature, or Krythan of khyber on my.ddo.com.... it works very very very well in amrath and epic.

7 feats and 20 AP to toughness is excessive

I could see justifying 2->3 toughness feats.... though Ulf is right: 7 toughness feats is WAY to much.
Consider dropping con to 17 (loss of 10 hp) , putting those extra points in INT... and using an INT tome to unlock CE, and Improved Trip. IMO: the main benefit is that Imp Trip reduces the cooldown from 15 to 10 seconds (and +4 DC). Your tactics DC's are going to be very very high... might as well get in the practice of using Trip and Sunder ALOT

C)
toHit is gonna be very painful on those epics you're apparently gonna be running. -8 for PA and -1 for no SWF

Once you get Epic Spectral Gloves / Kensei Tower Rings... to-hit shouldn't be an issue. In the mean time, you will want to adjust your level of WF power attack to the appropriate level.

btw: Isn't superior weapon focus required for Kensei III?

Suggest going dwarf instead.
-The 6 higher seeker will offset the 3 PA loss.

The #1 reason for going dwarf if access to Epic Marilith chain... considering you are a build that relies on crits... it would be nice.

-wis +2 and dwarven spell D help saves

That's a small benefit of dwarf... doesn't outweight all the WF immunities though

-drop alot of the toughnesses and get save feats. I go LoH, IW, LR, and maybe Bullhead. Combined with previous will give +8/10 to ref/will save.

Read the Krythan II build in my signature - just hit level 20: and I'm specced in warhammers... so far I have had no problems with saves. I wouldn't sacrifice a single feat to improve your saves.

-pick up SWF bludgeon and maybe slash spec (use DAxe on fort mobs, take axe enh as well for more dmg)

Using anything besides the weapon you are specced for is stupid.

[using a different weapon] Without specing ...would loose 9 damage, 4 seeker damage, (thats 39 damage per crit) and 5 attack bonus...

Ulf and I have come to a conclusion: the one thing we can agree on is that we never agree on anything.

[Logic]

Ah my build thoughts are pretty much identical to your build Krythan.

I have heard that trip just doesn't work well in epic. I plan on making two earthgrab warhammers and earthgrab guard GS item for any mobs with poor reflex saves, and high fort saves, that would be tripable, but not stunnable.

I did not know that quick draw reduces the time between clicking your action boost and swinging. How much of an effect does it have?

What I don't understand is when you say

A. While TWF, if you get the twitch right, you can hit an enemy with both weapons at once. If you tine Stunning Blow correctly, they have to make 2 saves. However, moving give you a -4 penalty to hit. Spring attack fixes that."

Does twitch and stunning blow timing only matter before you get GTWF? Do you get 2 attempts with trip and sunder as well? Can you explain? Thanks.

[Logic]

btw: Isn't superior weapon focus required for Kensei III?

Yep you are right. Let me fix the build... I think I'm gonna have to drop a toughness feat :[

[Ulf]

Once you get Epic Spectral Gloves / Kensei Tower Rings... to-hit shouldn't be an issue. In the mean time, you will want to adjust your level of WF power attack to the appropriate level.

First even with epic and ToD kensai set he will still be ~55 to Hit buffed which is not gonna cut it on elite, much less epics. The advantage of stunners is not their personal dps, but the dps boost they can give the group. So misses = less stuns = lot less dps. With a stunner build you should never miss a stunning blow attack due to miss on any non-1 roll. Making sure the SB lands is way more important than a few extra pesronal dmg.
Also, kensai set is screwed up atm, not worth using cuz the chance to loose boost charges.

btw: Isn't superior weapon focus required for Kensei III?

Yup

The #1 reason for going dwarf if access to Epic Marilith chain... considering you are a build that relies on crits... it would be nice.?

Not #1 reason, but it does balance PA enhancement damage loss for personal dps.

That's a small benefit of dwarf... doesn't outweight all the WF immunities though.

Maybe in your opnion. But myself and a lot of other people would say +8/10 to ref/will save is a hell of alot better than your disease/posion on a high fort hp melee.

Using anything besides the weapon you are specced for is stupid.

As to your numbers, sorry, they are completely wrong. Now assuming same base damage and no racials and ignoring the point I mentioned which was to pick up the specializations, they would fit. However:
base damage 3.5 higher (1d10 v 2d8)
racial damage for axe 2 higher
spec for axe 4 more damage
--> 9.5 damage up to your listed 9 damage down. So actually higher damage with axe. As to the seeker/crit, again it was clearly listed for use against mobs with fort where there are no stuns and thus stuns are useless. Also, its a different damage type so can bypass some DR that bludegon cannot.

[Wyrmnax]

I was thinking about this build, and i really like its concept.

Now... thinking always gives me trouble...

The problem of this build is boss DPS, correct? Simply because warhammers are a much poorer choice than kopeshes when theres no stunning involved.

What if you made it a barbarian instead of a fighter?

The thinking is simple:

- Fighter gain a lot of bonus that is weapon-specific because of kensai. Meaning your best DPS weapon will be a warhammer if you are a kensai-warhammer. Even though there are other weapons that have a better base, being a kensai will make warhammers better.

- A Barbarian, on the other hands, has bonuses that work for any weapon that they may wield. So in case of bosses you could switch up the hammers for Picks or Scimitars/Rapiers and keep most of your bonuses.

The problem with the barbarian is the amount of feats. They have 7 avaliable, and 5 are taken up immediately:

Power Attack
Cleave
TWF
GTWF
ITWF

Leaving only 2 to work with. You will want Stunning blow for this build, so that leaves 1. That would be either improved critical: Bludgeon, ICS or piercing, depending on your choice of picks vs scimitar), and Toughness.

Or you could make a Human Barbarian (Crazy though, huh?) and give him IC:B and another

The idea is to keep the stunning/earthgrabbing warhammers on trash, and switch to better DPS weapons on red/purple names. If you do not take IC on your secondary weapon you will likely be stuck with MinII weapons, but they arent bad - just not the best for everything.

[Logic]

I was thinking about this build, and i really like its concept.

Now... thinking always gives me trouble...

The problem of this build is boss DPS, correct? Simply because warhammers are a much poorer choice than kopeshes when theres no stunning involved.

What if you made it a barbarian instead of a fighter?

The thinking is simple:

- Fighter gain a lot of bonus that is weapon-specific because of kensai. Meaning your best DPS weapon will be a warhammer if you are a kensai-warhammer. Even though there are other weapons that have a better base, being a kensai will make warhammers better.

- A Barbarian, on the other hands, has bonuses that work for any weapon that they may wield. So in case of bosses you could switch up the hammers for Picks or Scimitars/Rapiers and keep most of your bonuses.

The problem with the barbarian is the amount of feats. They have 7 avaliable, and 5 are taken up immediately:

Power Attack
Cleave
TWF
GTWF
ITWF

Leaving only 2 to work with. You will want Stunning blow for this build, so that leaves 1. That would be either improved critical: Bludgeon, ICS or piercing, depending on your choice of picks vs scimitar), and Toughness.

Or you could make a Human Barbarian (Crazy though, huh?) and give him IC:B and another

The idea is to keep the stunning/earthgrabbing warhammers on trash, and switch to better DPS weapons on red/purple names. If you do not take IC on your secondary weapon you will likely be stuck with MinII weapons, but they arent bad - just not the best for everything.

Yeah barbs can get very high combat DC's just like fighters. But like you point out they are more feat starved.

Against bosses (especially if high fort) the damage difference between warhammers and khopesh is not as much as most people might expect. And against autocrit stunned trash the crit range doesn't matter either. Warhammer damage isn't terrible, its just less than khopesh. I think this build can work with warhammers, and without switching to a "dps" weapon.

The seeker kensai enhancements really lend itself to a stun build, so that was my thoughts on a fighter. Although a barb would do massive damage as well.

I think the best setup for a stun fighter build is the "WF monster" setup. With 12 fighter 6 ranger and 2 monk (or rogue if you want). This gives plenty of feats, evasion, and high combat DC (the same as a pure 20 fighter). Having bow strength, rapid shot, and multishot is also nice. I don't see any point of a pure 20 fighter over a monster build.

So the real comparison should be between a 20 barb and a monster fighter, not a 20 fighter. And in that respect I think the monster makes a better overall character, even if the damage is slightly less.