EPIC - more options already.

[REALb0r3d]

So far have only done VON 1-2 but they're retardedly easy, not much challenge so far.
1) Let casters spam firewall from some place they won't be hurt
2) Jump down and hit things from behind once casters have established hate
3) Find every other exploit you were too ashamed to use on other difficulties
4) Grab your coin

[Aussieee]

3) Find every other exploit you were too ashamed to use on other difficulties

LOL bragging about using exploits and then complaining it's too easy?

[Sweyn]

Something, what about letting us trade out Epic Raid tokens for Epic Dungeon tokens, maybe 3 for 1 or something.

I like this

[grodon9999]

LOL bragging about using exploits and then complaining it's too easy?

Is he wrong? is taking advantage of AI stupidity really using an exploit?

[Angelus_dead]

Many of us that have played without a break for four years would rather log off than run quests to death that we have already run a thousand times back when it was the end game.

I have observed many longtime players giving up lately because epics weren't fun for them. But the problem appeared to be not in the quests being recycled, but in the design of the gameplay they contain being too different from how DDO works.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Epic Kobold Assault!

[grodon9999]

I have observed many longtime players giving up lately because epics weren't fun for them. But the problem appeared to be not in the quests being recycled, but in the design of the gameplay they contain being too different from how DDO works.

Correct me if I'm wrong (n00b here), maybe because 90% or the characters who can be effective in the rest of the game are useless in epic?

[grodon9999]

Epic Kobold Assault!

That I'd be game for.

[Gunga]

I have observed many longtime players giving up lately because epics weren't fun for them. But the problem appeared to be not in the quests being recycled, but in the design of the gameplay they contain being too different from how DDO works.

Why do you think that is?

I've seen more old timers back in the last month or so than when Mod 9 dropped last Sept.

They are having a blast reincarnating, raiding, running epic.

I haven't experienced people leaving again....there's too much to do right now.

Correct me if I'm wrong (n00b here), maybe because 90% or the characters who can be effective in the rest of the game are useless in epic?

90% are useless?!

With all of the reroll options available to you new guys, it's hard for me to understand why that is.

100% of my toons, reinc'd or not, are effective in Epic content.

[Xyfiel]

So which way are you going with this? Do you feel that because the quest is elite, you should be granted less time? Or are you saying that because it's elite the mobs will take longer and you need more time in the quest to compensate?

I personally see nothing wrong with any of the timed quests. They are all very doable as sub-optimally equipped, level appropriate groups. Normal will probably take a while, then you figure out the layout and hard and elite are more smooth (despite the mobs taking longer to beat down.)

That said, I like the idea of elite timed quests having less time. More challenge = good.

Elite East 3, now only 5 minutes of agony!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Is he wrong? is taking advantage of AI stupidity really using an exploit?

depends on to what degree IMO. I don't like cheezy wins.
And then there is using a cheezy tactic and then calling it too easy...


Anyway, I see few Epic LFMs. And I see people giving up as soon as it becomes difficult. I'm not disappointed with Epic, I'm disappointed with the players.

Apparently people build uber DPS/HP chars to breeze through quests with. And if it isn't easy for them, then they make some excuse to quit. And for some reason then come to the forums and say how boring the game is. Or complain about PUGs not able to handle things...etc.

Sry. venting a little. Had a VON3 Epic group just quit after I carried five stones to the shrine.

[Xyfiel]

Why do you think that is?

I've seen more old timers back in the last month or so than when Mod 9 dropped last Sept.

They are having a blast reincarnating, raiding, running epic.

I haven't experienced people leaving again....there's too much to do right now.




90% are useless?!

With all of the reroll options available to you new guys, it's hard for me to understand why that is.

100% of my toons, reinc'd or not, are effective in Epic content.

Maybe because you are considered in the top 10% of power due to builds/gear. Elite guilds/players don't have a problem with Epic, it is the other 90% of people. To quote Shade, "The best of the best". I consider that a design flaw, effectively saying this content is only for the top players. I consider myself a great player with good builds, I shouldn't have a problem in Epic. The problem, I am not dedicated enough to grind the top pieces of loot for every inv slot for all my chars each time upgraded loot comes out. Mindnumbing boring to just farm loot, to me anyway. Epic quests aren't fun really. If they had no epic loot, how many people would just run them for fun?

[grodon9999]

90% are useless?!

With all of the reroll options available to you new guys, it's hard for me to understand why that is.

100% of my toons, reinc'd or not, are effective in Epic content.

Why would I re-roll a character that I love and is effective in the other 90% of the game to play quests that are rehashed and ********?

Maybe ******** is too strong of a word, but it requires and amount of meta-gaming that borders on the cheezy side of things. Maybe I'll change my mind when I've been around for a few years and have nothing else left to do.

[Lerincho]

So which way are you going with this? Do you feel that because the quest is elite, you should be granted less time? Or are you saying that because it's elite the mobs will take longer and you need more time in the quest to compensate?

I personally see nothing wrong with any of the timed quests. They are all very doable as sub-optimally equipped, level appropriate groups. Normal will probably take a while, then you figure out the layout and hard and elite are more smooth (despite the mobs taking longer to beat down.)

That said, I like the idea of elite timed quests having less time. More challenge = good.

Elite should mean less time to do the same objective as solo/normal.

[Rasczak]

What?

No mention of Epic Pit or Epic Necro? Epic Shadow Crypt or Cursed Crypt or ooooooohhhhh
I want Epic Kobold Assault

And the fact you have to stay tight-knit and work together to complete Epic is a problem for people? To bad....because most of the equipment I use on my characters for epic has been gained in the last few months...kind of exactly like those new players complaining they don't have equipment. They should probably listen more to the suggestions being made on how to be effective there instead of talking the whole time about having to grind for equipment. most of the stuff is easy enough to get.

[Lerincho]

What?

No mention of Epic Pit or Epic Necro? Epic Shadow Crypt or Cursed Crypt or ooooooohhhhh
I want Epic Kobald Assault

I didn't want to get stoned, tarred and feathered for wishing for EPIC pit. people already think I am suicidal because I like the Pit and CCHamber

[Lerincho]

And the fact you have to stay tight-knit and work together to complete Epic is a problem for people? To bad....because most of the equipment I use on my characters for epic has been gained in the last few months...kind of exactly like those new players complaining they don't have equipment. They should probably listen more to the suggestions being made on how to be effective there instead of talking the whole time about having to grind for equipment. most of the stuff is easy enough to get.

dang it someone figured out my subtle underlying motivation.

[Gunga]

Why would I re-roll a character that I love and is effective in the other 90% of the game to play quests that are rehashed and ********?

Maybe ******** is too strong of a word, but it requires and amount of meta-gaming that borders on the cheezy side of things. Maybe I'll change my mind when I've been around for a few years and have nothing else left to do.

Read between the lines.

You don't HAVE to reroll.

You've got TR, GR, GR +1, GR +3, LR, LR +1, LR +3. We didn't have these easy button options for many years. You should take advantage of the opportunity to have the perfect build of the day. Not only can you be even more effective in 90% of the quests you run, you might even complete an EPIC quest or two.

I think you are exaggerating the difficulty of EPIC. If you don't like being challanged, and would rather sleep through another shroud (Intim needed on Normal filled with 20th level toons when we were crushing it with 13-16s), that's ok.

For the people who like to be challanged, EPIC is a refreshing part of end game.

[Rasczak]

Read between the lines.

You don't HAVE to reroll.

You've got TR, GR, GR +1, GR +3, LR, LR +1, LR +3. We didn't have these easy button options for many years. You should take advantage of the opportunity to have the perfect build of the day. Not only can you be even more effective in 90% of the quests you run, you might even complete an EPIC quest or two.

I think you are exaggerating the difficulty of EPIC. If you don't like being challanged, and would rather sleep through another shroud (Intim needed on Normal filled with 20th level toons when we were crushing it with 13-16s), that's ok.

For the people who like to be challanged, EPIC is a refreshing part of end game.

I've been ignoring that quote because tbh, I don't get where it has any basis. Name one quest that doesn't border on meta-gaming once you've completed it once?
Cheesy because we get to run our old favourite quests and actually be challenged by them again?

The reroll one is funny and misinformed. I can literally make an evasion FvS and when I hit lvl 20, LR to get rid of the 2 monk levels to make a full FvS etc etc. Anyone who makes mistakes on their character has an easy option to redo them. Nobody should be deleting & rerolling any character that's higher than lvl 6 - 10, it's to easy to just redo them. Oh no you made a tempest but they now released arcane archer or oh I used rogue but I became VIP and want to make it monk......a year ago rerolling was the option....nowadays it isn't.

[Gunga]

I've been ignoring that quote because tbh, I don't get where it has any basis. Name one quest that doesn't border on meta-gaming once you've completed it once?
Cheesy because we get to run our old favourite quests and actually be challenged by them again?

The reroll one is funny and misinformed. I can literally make an evasion FvS and when I hit lvl 20, LR to get rid of the 2 monk levels to make a full FvS etc etc. Anyone who makes mistakes on their character has an easy option to redo them. Nobody should be deleting & rerolling any character that's higher than lvl 6 - 10, it's to easy to just redo them. Oh no you made a tempest but they now released arcane archer or oh I used rogue but I became VIP and want to make it monk......a year ago rerolling was the option....nowadays it isn't.

Yep. This game is easier than ever to front as a power gamer with a total N00B's dedication, yet some still complain.