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  1. #1
    Community Member augie's Avatar
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    Default 18/1/1 Build Advice

    Wasn't sure if tihocan's post or here would be the best spot but I have a few questions on that build if anyone is able to help.

    The one class I've never rolled is a ranger and I'm about to TR into a 34-point Tempest build, very similar to the 18/1/1 version. Due to my lack of inside knowledge w/ rangers, I have a few questions:

    1. Why the Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack line of feats? Is it just for the +4 to hit while moving? Or is Spring Attack required for some kind of ranger feat down the road? I haven't used SA on any other of my melees and haven't had much trouble hitting so wasn't sure if it was that critical to have or if those feats could be assigned elsewhere.

    2. Any downside to investing into Disable Device and Search instead of Spot and/or Jump? I know Spot has its benefits at times but if you're pretty familiar with most quests already, it seems like the points could be better applied elsewhere. Same with Jump since you'll be able to cast that on yourself. Perhaps DD/Search skills won't be maxed to the point that you're trapsmithing on lvl 18 elite quests but they'd be serviceable to the point where you can get the extra trapsmithing XP bonus in most low/mid level quests using +5 tools. Just curious.

    3. Are ITWF and GTWF not necessary for tempest builds? Just seems odd to me to have a 2WF build w/out those. Wasn't sure if the tempest line of enhancements made up for that or not.

    4. Also debating which race to go with. Seriously debating on warforged with their great immunities but also looking at Human too for their extra feat and no penalty to WIS or CHA.

    5. The WIS required for tier 1, 2, 3 and 4 ranger spells is 11, 12, 13 and 14 respectively, correct? So even with a starting base WIS of 8, with a +6 item you'd still be good to go? Just trying to weigh the pros/cons of investing in WIS to start with. Seems like there are a few ways to handle it:

    1) Start with a 12 WIS, eat a +2 WIS tome and you're done with it
    2) Start with 11 WIS as a human, eat a +2 and use the human enhancement to bump WIS up +1.
    3) Start with an 8 WIS to max out other stats and just plan on drinking Owl's pots to cast spells at lower levels and then eventually equipping a +6 WIS item in a slot.

    Just kinda thinking out loud right now but would really appreciate input from those with ranger experience. For what it's worth, I'd like to dual-weild khopesh's as soon as possible but have good light off-hand weaps in the meantime. I also have access to the full spectrum of +1 and +2 tomes as well.

    Much appreciated!

    Aug
    (TR)
    Elite Raiders and Twilight Alliance guilds
    Journal of an Experienced Newbie - Level 1 thru 10 - (Melee)

  2. #2
    Community Member ArichValtrahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by augie View Post
    1. Why the Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack line of feats? Is it just for the +4 to hit while moving? Or is Spring Attack required for some kind of ranger feat down the road? I haven't used SA on any other of my melees and haven't had much trouble hitting so wasn't sure if it was that critical to have or if those feats could be assigned elsewhere.
    Those are pre-reqs for Tempest.

    From the compendium:

    Ranger Tempest I
    Usage: Passive
    Cost: 4 action points
    Spent: 16 action points
    Requires All of: Spring Attack, Mobility, Dodge, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting (re: Q#3)
    Available to Ranger class level 6
    Your training has greatly improved your ability to fight with two weapons at once, granting a 10% competence bonus to dual wield attack speed and a +2 shield bonus to armor class when two-weapon fighting. You may possess only one prestige enhancement line at a time for each class.



    2. Any downside to investing into Disable Device and Search instead of Spot and/or Jump?
    My Exploiter has rogue skills.. seems to work very well.
    Last edited by ArichValtrahn; 03-22-2010 at 05:01 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by augie View Post
    3. Are ITWF and GTWF not necessary for tempest builds? Just seems odd to me to have a 2WF build w/out those. Wasn't sure if the tempest line of enhancements made up for that or not.
    ITWF and GTWF are class granted feats to rangers, you don't have to select them. ITWF is granted to you at Ranger level 6, GTWF is granted to you at Ranger level 11. Taking the Tempest III enhancement grants you an extra attack (sometimes referred to as the Superior TWF feat).

    Quote Originally Posted by augie View Post
    4. Also debating which race to go with. Seriously debating on warforged with their great immunities but also looking at Human too for their extra feat and no penalty to WIS or CHA.
    Human is (IMO) the best race to go with for this build. The extra skill point per level makes it easier to gain the full ranks in all rogue skills (DD/UMD) as well as Intimidate.

    Quote Originally Posted by augie View Post
    5. The WIS required for tier 1, 2, 3 and 4 ranger spells is 11, 12, 13 and 14 respectively, correct? So even with a starting base WIS of 8, with a +6 item you'd still be good to go? Just trying to weigh the pros/cons of investing in WIS to start with. Seems like there are a few ways to handle it
    While your thinking is correct with respect to casting spells, don't forget the other advantage of this build is the very high AC that can be achieved with the WIS bonus to AC. Dumping WIS to an 8 (or 6 if WF) sort of negates that AC advantage to a degree.

  4. #4
    Community Member Xyfiel's Avatar
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    I expect someone with that many level 20's, in otherwords, that much game experience, to be able to answer all those questions themselves. I don't know to laugh or cry. The other posts have the info, and being it is the most popular multiclass Ranger build, there are tons of threads about anything you want to know about it already.

  5. #5
    Community Member FauxSho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by augie View Post
    1. Why the Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack line of feats?
    As Arich noted, that line of feats are prerequisites for Tempest I.

    Quote Originally Posted by augie View Post
    2. Any downside to investing into Disable Device and Search instead of Spot and/or Jump? I know Spot has its benefits at times but if you're pretty familiar with most quests already, it seems like the points could be better applied elsewhere. Same with Jump since you'll be able to cast that on yourself. Perhaps DD/Search skills won't be maxed to the point that you're trapsmithing on lvl 18 elite quests but they'd be serviceable to the point where you can get the extra trapsmithing XP bonus in most low/mid level quests using +5 tools. Just curious.
    You've pretty much answered your question here. The general consensus is that Jump isn't quite so important since it's easy to boost, and Spot is only (somewhat) useful the first time through a dungeon. Having good trapsmithing skills is a cherry on top of the "Exploiter" cake.

    Quote Originally Posted by augie View Post
    3. Are ITWF and GTWF not necessary for tempest builds? Just seems odd to me to have a 2WF build w/out those. Wasn't sure if the tempest line of enhancements made up for that or not.
    Rangers get TWF automatically at lvl 2, ITWF at lvl 6, and GTWF at lvl 11.

    Quote Originally Posted by augie View Post
    4. Also debating which race to go with. Seriously debating on warforged with their great immunities but also looking at Human too for their extra feat and no penalty to WIS or CHA.
    Almost any race is viable with this build (maybe not Drow so much). Many choose human and use the bonus feat for Khopesh proficiency. WF for immunities, Halfling for SA and extra AC, Dwarf for Axe enhancements, Elf for Rapier/Scimitar enhancements... there are lots of options and tradeoffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by augie View Post
    5. The WIS required for tier 1, 2, 3 and 4 ranger spells is 11, 12, 13 and 14 respectively, correct? So even with a starting base WIS of 8, with a +6 item you'd still be good to go? Just trying to weigh the pros/cons of investing in WIS to start with.
    The benefit of the monk splash is the Wis bonus to AC, so probably the most important determination of what importance you want to put on Wis is what importance you plan on placing on AC.

    Edit: Cursed work ISP... late answers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead
    You should probably try being just slightly specific.

  6. #6
    Community Member augie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyfiel View Post
    I expect someone with that many level 20's, in otherwords, that much game experience, to be able to answer all those questions themselves. I don't know to laugh or cry. The other posts have the info, and being it is the most popular multiclass Ranger build, there are tons of threads about anything you want to know about it already.
    While I would generally agree, this is my first True Reincarnate in the only class that I've never actually played. Forgive me for wanting to tap into the experience of others to make sure I don't hose myself on a character I don't have the luxury of just deleting and re-rolling because of a stat or feat mistake.

    And nearly all the other 18/1/1 posts out there that I've found feature Monk instead of Fighter in an effort to focus on AC more. Not really a high priority in my book.

    Plus I'm at work and don't have access to the character planner. Had I had a chance to do that, then I probably would have caught the ITWF/GTWF thing.

    Sorry to have brought you down to my insignificant level of gaming ability and clearly wasting your time. To the rest of you, cheers for the advice.
    (TR)
    Elite Raiders and Twilight Alliance guilds
    Journal of an Experienced Newbie - Level 1 thru 10 - (Melee)

  7. #7
    Community Member Xyfiel's Avatar
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    I wasn't meaning to be rude, I was actually curious how you wouldn't know that info playing that much.

    With that much experience in game, you never researched how to make greensteel, dragontouched rune options, raid loot, where items dropped that you wanted, people discussing builds/items in groups, how your spell casting worked with your casting stat, the forums for builds similiar to what you want to make, the abilities of other classes, etc? Hence the confused emoticon.

    If you're level 20, you should know the basics of all the other classes and what popular builds can do. Players should know if the 18+barb mentions he doesn't have power attack, or the Rogue is carrying a staff, or the bard is multiclassed and doesn't have inspire heroism, what those things mean to the group. I rate knowing a tempest has to take 3 feats to qualify and therefore is basically feat starved making multiclassing more beneficial, what feats a ranger gets for free, how much casting stat you need to cast spells, a rogue/ranger can hit 99% of traps in game, that jump caps at 40 and Rangers can self cast 30 of it to be things any level 20 should know, let alone someone with 8 of them.

    This was my point, and I couldn't logically deduce why this was the case. I don't know how you play, but the enigma was bothering me.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by augie View Post
    And nearly all the other 18/1/1 posts out there that I've found feature Monk instead of Fighter in an effort to focus on AC more. Not really a high priority in my book.
    Regarding the lower priority for AC: for many characters and builds I can understand this sentiment. For this build however, the benefits are so great to build around AC and there is such a natural synergy. Now, if you don't have any of the necessary AC gear already for this character (AC 8 Bracers, Chattering Ring, Icy Raiments) then it could be a bit more of a concern because that could be some grinding (esp. Chattering Ring), but knowing with whom you play regularly, these items could be easily acquired.

    That said, if you were to still make AC a low priority, then yes, what you posted originally about starting WIS at an 8 would be fine and would free up a good number of starting points to dump into STR or CON.

  9. #9
    Community Member ArichValtrahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FauxSho View Post
    Many choose human and use the bonus feat for Khopesh proficiency.
    Personally, I went human because I was trying to work the exploiter as a 28 point build. Since I had to dump a stat, I went with a lower strength and used the bonus feat to pick up weapon finesse. In retrospect, waiting until I unlocked 32 point builds would have been the better choice. If anyone does try the exploiter as a 28 pointer, that is probably your best bet.. although not applicable to this particular thread.

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