Is this Battle Cleric build alright?

[Shaftronics]

I've always been the type to be the 2nd line of offense/defense, picking off whatever that manages to break through the front line making sure that none of them get to the more squishy rear line casters, while I still am making sure the front line has it easy, with buffs and spells like soundburst or command to help them.

I've made a fighter and I love being on the front line, but I feel bad when I'm somewhat dependent on the healers.

I've made a Paladin, but even then, he's not exactly supportive enough. Great against undead and evil outsiders, but still being an integral part of the front line. So I thought, I'd try a proper battle cleric.

I've seen my fair share of horrid ones, charging into battle with sword and board with low DPS and getting themselves flanked, with way too little SP and most of it, being dedicated to themselves than the party. I don't want to be that kind of guy. For me, picking off whatever that gets past the front line tank or DPS before they get to the casters or actively helping is more of my style.

As shown below, this is my proposed Battle Cleric build, focused on healing, buffing/supporting and possible Crowd Control.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Haztion Maxwell
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 306
Spell Points: 1228 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 6
Will: 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    20
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               16                    18
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               0                     0
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         3                    25
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  3                    19
Hide                  0                     0
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  7                    11
Listen                3                     4
Move Silently         0                     0
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  3                     4
Swim                  3                     5
Tumble                1                     1
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 2 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Cleansing I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 4 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Light I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 8 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Cleansing II


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing II


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III


Level 13 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Cleansing III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality III


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Casting
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 19 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing III


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Light II

[biggin]

I would trade out Combat Castiing for Quicken. But otherwise looks good.

[MetaSyn]

As shown below, this is my proposed Battle Cleric build, focused on healing, buffing/supporting and possible Crowd Control.


[/code]

hmm that build doesn't focus on much of any of those.

combat casting? cleave, great cleave, what are ya gonna do with those feats on any battle cleric build?

[Shaftronics]

I've always heard they suck, but two melee skills back to back doesn't sound so bad. But then again, you make a good point. I've never meddled with spellcasters in the game yet, but I should do it right.

Anyway, should I trade them out for metamagic feats such as Empower or Maximize?

And yeah, I'd probably switch out Combat Casting for Quicken. Thanks for the input, its very appreciated.

Anything else I should know?

[Tumarek]

Ok stats and skills look good.

Feats need some more love... Quicken... Quicken and Quicken! Dont never ever stand in frontline and dont have it on, even with high concentration... never.

I would swap empower healing for maximise... you can heal very good with that too and still kick out a Blade barrier is needed. Mass Heal's do work great in 6 man parties but in raids it suck's (well till update 5 in 3 months it seems) even more so if you dont have quicken.

Extended
Quicken
Thoughness
THF
ITHF
GTHF
Improved crit
Maximize
Empower

are the feats i would go for (not in this order) and maybe go for dwarf if you dont mind. If you want to stick to human maybe take Mental Thoughness for extra SP.

[Shaftronics]

Noted, I'll just exchange cleave for Quicken, then push up the feat priorities for Extended. I need the THF Feat early on, so that remains unchanged. Maximize costs more in terms of SP, but being able to be used with healing spells make it a huge plus. I never knew it would increase heal effectiveness, so thanks for the heads up as well. <3

[Tumarek]

Oh and i totlly forgot Power attack: it gives you -5 attack and +10, yes 10, damage bonus with thf... instead of mental thoughness as human and instead of empower if you go dwarf. The combat casting feat is a total waste btw.

you dont need the twf early on, although it is nice...

P.S. Maximize and empower works on all spells where you roll a dice... that means bladebarrier, cometfall and an all heal wounds... not on heal and mass heal... empower healing on all healing spells but not combat.

[Shaftronics]

I know Power Attack gives +10 damage to two-handers, its why I have it early. =p

So here's the modified feat list...

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Haztion Maxwell
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 306
Spell Points: 1228 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 6
Will: 15

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)

[Tumarek]

i would take extended earlier on since it is most usefull on low levels... quicken gets important around 12 so it can be take later on.

Looks good otherwise... you will need to play around with the enhancements but that can be done as you go along... changing them doesnt cost alot of money even on high levels. Just reboot them every now and then and see what you like better.

[Phidius]

Skills: I'd dump the Heal skill, and put more into Balance.

Feats: If you want to be able to use Crowd Control, I'd recommend both Spell Penetration feats.

[Tumarek]

Skills: I'd dump the Heal skill, and put more into Balance.

Feats: If you want to be able to use Crowd Control, I'd recommend both Spell Penetration feats.

Both main combat spells Blade Barrier and cometfall dont need spellpenetration so i wouldnt advise it as a melee focused cleric.

But yeah, your skill choice is better...

[Impaqt]

Your Level up ability points are not efficient.

Looks like you put 2 points into Con and1 into Str? Where did the other 2 go?

Regardless. Pick One or the other. STR or WIS.

I find STR to be questionable. As a cleric with Divine favor and Divine Power, you just dont need str as much as you need Wisdom. Especially if y our going to try to cast spells.

After level 11 Cleric, you will never "need" to swing a sword again.

(Although it is useful whenyour low on spell points or want to debuff)

Solid Battle Cleric Str.

16
2 Tome
1 Fighter STR
1 Human Str
6 Item
2 Rage Pot
---
28 STR add on that Divine Favor for +3 to hit and Damge and your looking at an effective 34 STR. MORE thanenough.

Now look at Wisdom.
16 Base
5 Levels
2 TOme
3 Cleric
1 Human
6 Item
--
33 Add a Shroud Item or ToD ring to get you up to a 36 Wisdom. SOlid DC for many offensive spell.

Also, if your going to be using Cleave and Great Cleave a lot, THF chain is largely unnecessary.

[Tumarek]

Good point from impaqt... stick to one stat. Although I would considering putting everything into strength to keep melee effective. If you dont you wont use it and you could have made a non melee cleric.

[Impaqt]

Good point from impaqt... stick to one stat. Although I would considering putting everything into strength to keep melee effective. If you dont you wont use it and you could have made a non melee cleric.

Whats not effective about a 34 STR? Not to mention he can also add Greensteel to that, LotD, +3/+4 Tome, Titan Str Gloves, Yugoloth Potions, House D Potions, and Turbien store Potions.


What would you rather have in your Party for an End game quest.

A Cleric with a 38STR and Useless Spell DC's

a Cleric with 34 STR and average DC's

Wisdom is also going to provide another 60-100 SPell points, and Higher Will save

[Tumarek]

Well in epic level's the DC dont really count much anyways, the extra sp is not that much...

I'm not saying wisdom is a bad choice... just str is very helpfull too

[Impaqt]

Well in epic level's the DC dont really count much anyways, the extra sp is not that much...

I'm not saying wisdom is a bad choice... just str is very helpfull too

Epic is not all there is for End game. I'd go as far to say a 18/2Fighter cleric would be a poor substitute for anything in a 6 Man epic instance. Perhaps handy in a Raid....

But even in Normal-Epic L17-20 quests and Raids. A Blade Barier or COmetfall DC of 30 Vs 35-38 is a tremendous difference.

[Tumarek]

But even in Normal-Epic L17-20 quests and Raids. A Blade Barier or COmetfall DC of 30 Vs 35-38 is a tremendous difference.

putting all points into wisdom will give you a +3 to DC max

[Impaqt]

putting all points into wisdom will give you a +3 to DC max

And swapping THF Feats for Maximize and Heighten could add another 3.

And if you shift your focus to Wisdom, your more likely to take more Cleric/human Wisdom.

and More likely to add +2/+3 Exceptional from a Shroud Weapon or ToD RIng....

More excited about a +3/+4 tome (And more likely that someone that Pulls one would simply Pass it over to you)

Its a snowball effect. Treat Wis as a dump stat and you inherently keep away from addition items and effects that raise it.

Treat it as a Primary stat and your more likely to do what it takes to make sure your DC's are solid.

[Tumarek]

uhm well yeah, if you dont want to make a mele focused cleric, dumping Wisdom is stupid...

But since he wanted a character with a big weapon in his hand doing melee damage most of the time, wisdom doesnt have to be maxed... for buffing and healing wisdom does near to nothing, and a maximised empowered bb with a medium save will work good enough in most of the game and actually the same in epic.

If he dropped THF he should drop the 2 levels of fighter too and then he wouldnt be a battlecleric anymore. Now we could have a discussion about battleclerics but there are enough threads about them already. I have capped 2 of them and dumped wisdom. Can solo heal shroud with some luck and melee about any mob... couldnt do that if i hadnt maxed strength.

[Impaqt]

uhm well yeah, if you dont want to make a mele focused cleric, dumping Wisdom is stupid...

But since he wanted a character with a big weapon in his hand doing melee damage most of the time, wisdom doesnt have to be maxed... for buffing and healing wisdom does near to nothing, and a maximised empowered bb with a medium save will work good enough in most of the game and actually the same in epic.

If he dropped THF he should drop the 2 levels of fighter too and then he wouldnt be a battlecleric anymore. Now we could have a discussion about battleclerics but there are enough threads about them already. I have capped 2 of them and dumped wisdom. Can solo heal shroud with some luck and melee about any mob... couldnt do that if i hadnt maxed strength.

And I have 2 Battle clerics that Solo Heal Shroud all the time, still melee any mob I want too. Both have 36 or Higher Wisdom and mid 20's Str unbuffed.

20 BAB
8 28 STR (Very easy to get to without "Focusing on str"
3 Diving Favor
5 Greensteel Weapon
2 Exceptional (Warpriest set)
--
+38 First Swing.
4 Greater Heroism (Gird, Amrath Necklace)
1 Haste
---
+43 First Swing Self buffed. My Dwarf also has +2 to hit with his great axes from ENhancments.. +45
Add a Bard in there and I get pushed over +50 To Hit First Swing.


ALso, the difference in spell points between a 36 Wis Cleric and a 24 Wis cleric at l20 is 174 SpellPoints. that 1 1/2 FEATS worth of spell points.

at 18, the difference is still 162,