Epic Fort Saves and Stunning Blow

[Logic]

I was just curious what fortitude saves epic mobs have and if stunning blow works well on them? I'm talking about stunning blow from a 32 point and moderately easy to get gear, not a theoretical maximum with completionist, fighter past lives, perfect gear, pefect buffs, and mob debuffs.

I was thinking about making a 32pt WF 20 fighter kensai specalized in warhammers.

Passive stunning dual wielding 5% weighted warhammers and 10% fighter alacrity capstone

Stunning blow, fortitude DC 40
10 base
4 fighter enh
3 WF enh
10 from weighted weapon
13 from str (assuming 36 str - 18 base + 5 levelup + 6 item + 3 fighter enh + 2 rage + 2 exceptional)

So my question is this. Is a DC 40 stunning blow attack good enough to stun epic mobs? If not, what DC, gear, buffs, debuffs are needed to make stunning blow effective?

Thanks.

[Logic]

I suppose barbarians would be able to get even higher DC during rages, anybody now what fort saves are for epic mobs though?

[Murderface]

doesnt work on red named so why bother specing for max

[vindicater]

Im not an expert but read a post in the barb section saying he was having no problems landing it or the monks eather.

[Logic]

doesnt work on red named so why bother specing for max

For epic trash mobs.

[Logic]

Im not an expert but read a post in the barb section saying he was having no problems landing it or the monks eather.

Ah cool. No problem at all times or no problem when raging with a 5% weighted wep?

[Ghoste]

Haven't tested fort saves myself in epic, but it looks like they focused on the more hp and more immunities (death effects, etc.) route in designing epic mobs. Trip is great, because resistance to it doesnt go up with saves.

[BlackSteel]

40 may be a tad low, but you're forgetting quite a few str bonuses.

4 madstone, 2 yugo pot, 8 power surge

litany and one more exceptional str

and doesnt kensai increase combat dc's as well?

now you're talking about a very good dc, and you get the bonus of swinging two weapons for double the chance (thus an almost no fail stunning blow)

[lolwatboomer]

doesnt work on red named so why bother specing for max

is this a serious post?

for the op: the last 3-4 posts in this thread should give you an idea of how well stunning blow works, and what DC you need

[Logic]

40 may be a tad low, but you're forgetting quite a few str bonuses.

4 madstone, 2 yugo pot, 8 power surge

litany and one more exceptional str

and doesnt kensai increase combat dc's as well?

now you're talking about a very good dc, and you get the bonus of swinging two weapons for double the chance (thus an almost no fail stunning blow)

Oh good call. I forgot about those.

now you're talking about a very good dc, and you get the bonus of swinging two weapons for double the chance (thus an almost no fail stunning blow)

Are you saying two 5% weighted weapons give 20 to the stunning blow DC, not 10? Or are you saying that two 5% weighted weps hit twice as much as a 2 hander and therefore stun more?

[Logic]

is this a serious post?

for the op: the last 3-4 posts in this thread should give you an idea of how well stunning blow works, and what DC you need

Ah thanks for link, this about answers all my questions.

[Shade]

Haven't tested fort saves myself in epic, but it looks like they focused on the more hp and more immunities (death effects, etc.) route in designing epic mobs. Trip is great, because resistance to it doesnt go up with saves.

Fort saves are balanced reasonable well.
Maxxed out gearred Berserkers and Kensais have no trouble stunning even the toughnest enemies.. But your average melee without enhancements and poor equipment won't land it that much.. Big variance in gear, and enhancements to match the saves.

Trip on the other hand unfortunately is very ineffective on epic.

The common belief that it's just more hp and immunities is incorrect. Pretty much every stat, skill, save, etc scales on epic. And there really aren't any relevant "immunities" as in plural.. They got the all important deathblock, and thats pretty much it.

Trip is a strength/dex save.. And pretty much every epic monster has massive strength and dex, (50-80 range like Barbarians).. Making trip all but impossible to land in most cases. Similarly, they never seem to fail balance checks either, so for the rare occoasion when they do roll a 1 on your tirp, they are back up in 2 seconds.

There are some exceptions ofcourse.. Mobs that tend to have extremely low str scores normally, have only reasonably good ones on epic.. So things like Drow Rangers in particular can be tripped.. But ONLY by a completely maxxed out Barb/Fight with full enhancements and a vertigo weapon.

Being that actauly using a vertigo weapon on epic is a rather bad idea as it's a much worse modifier then weighted.. It just doesn't work.

Hopefully some future epics they go a different route and just scale the enemies base damage up, without having to give them rediculess strength scores.. As the huge contrast in difference between elite and epic for trip is disappointing.

Alternatively they could come out with some good epic weapons with relevant stats, like Vertigo +15 and solid DPS.. Allowing trips on epic at least occoasonally, tho the abnormal balance scores may still cause issues.

[Logic]

Fort saves are balanced reasonable well.
Maxxed out gearred Berserkers and Kensais have no trouble stunning even the toughnest enemies.. But your average melee without enhancements and poor equipment won't land it that much.. Big variance in gear, and enhancements to match the saves.

Trip on the other hand unfortunately is very ineffective on epic.

The common belief that it's just more hp and immunities is incorrect. Pretty much every stat, skill, save, etc scales on epic. And there really aren't any relevant "immunities" as in plural.. They got the all important deathblock, and thats pretty much it.

Trip is a strength/dex save.. And pretty much every epic monster has massive strength and dex, (50-80 range like Barbarians).. Making trip all but impossible to land in most cases. Similarly, they never seem to fail balance checks either, so for the rare occoasion when they do roll a 1 on your tirp, they are back up in 2 seconds.

There are some exceptions ofcourse.. Mobs that tend to have extremely low str scores normally, have only reasonably good ones on epic.. So things like Drow Rangers in particular can be tripped.. But ONLY by a completely maxxed out Barb/Fight with full enhancements and a vertigo weapon.

Being that actauly using a vertigo weapon on epic is a rather bad idea as it's a much worse modifier then weighted.. It just doesn't work.

Hopefully some future epics they go a different route and just scale the enemies base damage up, without having to give them rediculess strength scores.. As the huge contrast in difference between elite and epic for trip is disappointing.

Alternatively they could come out with some good epic weapons with relevant stats, like Vertigo +15 and solid DPS.. Allowing trips on epic at least occoasonally, tho the abnormal balance scores may still cause issues.

Ah thanks for explaining. Basically none of my chars are good at running epics and I want to make a 32 melee char that is good at stunning and running epics with easy to get gear. I think your barbs DC55 stunning blow is higher than I would get with how much time I am planning on spending on this char (stunning blow maxes with madstone, litany, berserkers set, tomes, fighter past life(s), completionest, etc). I think my best bet is just to make a human str/con based monk with 5% weighted handwraps, completely forget about AC, and just take toughness a few times. Could be good for epic running with minimal work. Or do you think barb or kensai is a better option?

[Logic]

Ah thanks for explaining. Basically none of my chars are good at running epics and I want to make a 32 melee char that is good at stunning and running epics with easy to get gear. I think your barbs DC55 stunning blow is higher than I would get with how much time I am planning on spending on this char (stunning blow maxes with madstone, litany, berserkers set, tomes, fighter past life(s), completionest, etc). I think my best bet is just to make a human str/con based monk with 5% weighted handwraps, completely forget about AC, and just take toughness a few times. Could be good for epic running with minimal work. Or do you think barb or kensai is a better option?

Moved discussion to new thread

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...23#post2842223

[BlackSteel]

Ah thanks for explaining. Basically none of my chars are good at running epics and I want to make a 32 melee char that is good at stunning and running epics with easy to get gear. I think your barbs DC55 stunning blow is higher than I would get with how much time I am planning on spending on this char (stunning blow maxes with madstone, litany, berserkers set, tomes, fighter past life(s), completionest, etc). I think my best bet is just to make a human str/con based monk with 5% weighted handwraps, completely forget about AC, and just take toughness a few times. Could be good for epic running with minimal work. Or do you think barb or kensai is a better option?

dont expect to be a great help in epic on a melee character that just blasted his way up to 20. some gear and favor grinding will be required before you're actually useful in there. a raid geared melee will do a substantial amount of damage over a newly leveled character. On top of that, they'll have the to hit bonus to be able to use power attack, or have an effective combat DC.

granted you can always be dragged thru von 1/2 or wiz king by a good group. But for something like chains of flame, offerring of blood, or epic dq; you'll be a waste of a spot till getting better gear.

Now keep in mind you can always just use a 5% weighted weapon and call out when it randomly procs (this is very effective for tempest rangers or monks. But keep in mind if you join a party and dont contribute alot, you might not be along for a second run in the future. I atleast try to keep a mental list of real pikers for these quests, and not to bring them along again (here's looking at you Mr. S & B palidan, or the FvS that took a healing roll in dragon but didnt mention till after his base died that he doesnt heal)

The only class that wont require some raid loot/grinding to be effective in epic will be a Favored Soul with quicken. You'll have enough Spell points to cover healing most of the time w/o dipping into scrolls or pots. I'd say a cleric too, but its nice for the cleric to have a good SP item.

But back to the Kensai/barb/monk question. At the bare minimum do NOT try to run epics w/o atleast having some shroud gear. Other raid loot/named gear helps too. The monk is almost worse off for running epics, as they're biggest DPS contributing items come from Tower of Despair instead. Otherwise sure, you'll stun the occasional mob, but you're gonna be garbage on any red named.