The Solar Phoenix - Healing Amplification Paladin/Monk

[nicro]

Is the Healing Ki finisher effected by Healing Lore items? Curious if the heals can crit.

[DrakmireTS]

+1

Amazing idea Ely, I'm really stoked to try this on Sky's 2nd TR, once I finish out the rest of my 20ths and maybe craft up some GS.

One question I had is: I've been looking over the loot lists, and you mention 30% heal amp on either a GS or a Dream Edge, but I haven't seen a Dream Edge with heal amp on it yet. Is it a randomly generated effect, or a passive effect once upgraded or what? If it's just one of the random effects, I think I'd have to write it off, but I just wanted to check to make sure.

I enjoy how, being a 2nd TR build, it allows some flexibility in how you handle your stats and feats, rather than being rigidly constrained. Like I'll be dropping my dex to 13 to put the points elsewhere, pushing back the GTWF chain until the very last levels, which will hurt but...eh.

One feat suggestion I might make is Skill Focus: UMD. With the rogue level making a full 23 by 20 points possible, and a reasonable charisma from paladin stuffs, it's entirely reasonable to get no-fail heal scrolls by 20. I mean, let's see here...

23 Base
7 Charisma bonus
4 GH
3 Skill Focus
2 HOGF

If you can pull 3 Charisma skills from a GS item (a cleansed one maybe, or maybe not since this build has lots of hps), you could skip the skill focus. Personal preference there I guess, 20 HP (GS) + Focus UMD vs 3 Cha skills + 23 HP (Toughness Feat).

With as many hitpoints as I think you'll have, although you'll be rocking the self heals most of the time, there are occasions where it just isn't feasible to punch up some finishing moves, and a ~440ish self heal would be a major asset. My hastily-constructed spreadsheet is showing around 500 hps (500 exactly for my tweaks) with 2 feats worth of wiggle room.

[SolarDawning]

+1

Amazing idea Ely, I'm really stoked to try this on Sky's 2nd TR, once I finish out the rest of my 20ths and maybe craft up some GS.

One question I had is: I've been looking over the loot lists, and you mention 30% heal amp on either a GS or a Dream Edge, but I haven't seen a Dream Edge with heal amp on it yet. Is it a randomly generated effect, or a passive effect once upgraded or what? If it's just one of the random effects, I think I'd have to write it off, but I just wanted to check to make sure.

One of the random effects that can appear on a Dream Edge, pretty hard to find. Seems to appear most on Elite mindsunder. I don't have one, and will just make a Con Opp greensteel with it instead.

One feat suggestion I might make is Skill Focus: UMD. With the rogue level making a full 23 by 20 points possible, and a reasonable charisma from paladin stuffs, it's entirely reasonable to get no-fail heal scrolls by 20. I mean, let's see here...

23 Base
7 Charisma bonus
4 GH
3 Skill Focus
2 HOGF

If you can pull 3 Charisma skills from a GS item (a cleansed one maybe, or maybe not since this build has lots of hps), you could skip the skill focus. Personal preference there I guess, 20 HP (GS) + Focus UMD vs 3 Cha skills + 23 HP (Toughness Feat).

With as many hitpoints as I think you'll have, although you'll be rocking the self heals most of the time, there are occasions where it just isn't feasible to punch up some finishing moves, and a ~440ish self heal would be a major asset. My hastily-constructed spreadsheet is showing around 500 hps (500 exactly for my tweaks) with 2 feats worth of wiggle room.

I thought about UMD too. I'm going to pass on it and use wands/silver flame pots instead of heal scrolls, but please tell me how well UMD works out for you if you try it.


I just started this character last night. I flip-flopped right before doing it, and decided -not- to TR my monk. I just made a new 32-pt'er instead to test the waters. Leveling will be fast (when I have time to play), but I won't have all the legacy greensteel gear waiting for me. I'm almost to level 5, and it's fun so far.

[SolarDawning]

Is the Healing Ki finisher effected by Healing Lore items? Curious if the heals can crit.

I haven't tested it yet, but I expect the answer is "yes", as it's considered a healing spell for Devotion items and enhancements.

[Quijonsith]

I haven't tested it yet, but I expect the answer is "yes", as it's considered a healing spell for Devotion items and enhancements.

I can tell you from a 20 monk perspective: yes the healing ki finisher can crit (and I also love my potency I ring boosting it by 50% even at 20).

[DrakmireTS]

So how's the build working out for you, Ely? I'm still collecting gear, but I want to eventually try a modified version of this and was curious how you felt your damage output was.

[SolarDawning]

So how's the build working out for you, Ely? I'm still collecting gear, but I want to eventually try a modified version of this and was curious how you felt your damage output was.

Only level 7 so far, but it's going well. Kamas aren't so bad in and of themselves, they're only bad in comparison to weapons with better crit stats, like khopesh. High strength still means plenty of base damage, and thus viability. When fighting a boss on elite, I pop rogue haste boost and human damage boost, and just tear into them.

When I'm grouping, the 4-9 extra sneak attack from the rogue level is great.
Smite Evil, as paladins know, hits like a truck.
In good news, using paladin attacks such as Smite Evil does not interrupt monk ability combos- I can use light/smite/light/light, and have Healing Ki readied. No reason why Divine Sacrifice (when I get it) won't work the same way.

I've run each quest I've done so far on normal, then hard, then elite. No deaths yet. It's not a real indicator of future performance, but last night (at level 6), I duo'ed elite waterworks with a level 4 monk friend, and we tore through it without any noticeable damage.

Started with 1 rogue/3 monk, have been taking paladin since.

As of level 7 now, and with no healing amp gear (but with a sup potency 1 hat), Healing Ki is getting well into the 30's already. This character has been a lot of fun so far, but it'll take me awhile to get into the endgame. I don't have too much time to play these days, and just totaled my car in an automobile accident this morning. =( So, I've got some things to take care of first.

[Sillk]

To the point of healing OTHER people with your finishing moves...

If I have the Madstone Boots (Potency VII), a Chainmail Coif (Superior Devotion III), the Gauntlets of Eternity (Superior Healing Lore) along with Ranger/Paladin Devotion IV, and a Superior Ardor 1 potion all active, do they all stack as far as healing others with the Finishing Move from Fists of Light?

[SolarDawning]

To the point of healing OTHER people with your finishing moves...

If I have the Madstone Boots (Potency VII), a Chainmail Coif (Superior Devotion III), the Gauntlets of Eternity (Superior Healing Lore) along with Ranger/Paladin Devotion IV, and a Superior Ardor 1 potion all active, do they all stack as far as healing others with the Finishing Move from Fists of Light?

Items (potency, devotion or Ardor potions) do not stack, only the highest bonus from that category applies. So Sup Devotion on the chainmail coif, or, when active, Superior Ardor potion.

Healing Lore will add a chance for the heal to crit, and for greater effect.

Ranger or Paladin Devotion (or the similar Cleric, Bard, or FvS enhancements)will stack with any other bonuses.

[SolarDawning]

So, here's an update on how it's going for anyone interested.

My baby Solar Phoenix, Erytheia, is now level 9.
I've not been playing much of late, but all of my play with this character to date has been duo with a friend, who is on a human str/healing amp based monk. We have not yet played in a team larger than the two of us.
We've done all missions so far at or close to level, and have been doing them on n/h/e with no problems.

Neither of us are aiming for AC, and so are easily hit. Even so, we both feel very sturdy, as we have a lot of hit points, as we've each used several spare feats on Toughness. (Given that our builds each have eleven feats total, and not nearly that many useful feats for us to take.)

My current levels are: 5 paladin/3 monk/1 rogue
Between items, planar gird for G. Heroism, Walk of the Sun, Skill Boost, and the base 4 ranks I started with, I've been able to handle all traps I've found so far. (Including in Delera's Tomb h/e, the hardest we've done so far. Will see how I continue to do in higher content, though traps were not a consideration in the build.)

Now at level 9, Healing Ki with a superior potency 1 item can hit the 40's. I look forward to more healing amp next level when I take Hunter of the Dead 1, and later this week, when I get Sentinels pack and hopefully the Jidz-tet'ka bracers. =)

Damage until this level felt adequate, but not especially notable.
Dual-weapon fighting with kamas is, well... 1d6 with crits on 20 for x2. Not especially powerful.

As of level 9, however, I'm tearing through everything, elite included. I've just gained Divine Sacrifice and Divine Might this level, and it's made a world of difference.
It looks something like this:
24 strength + divine favor + divine might + rogue haste boost + haste (I have several clickies for it) + human damage boost + smite evil/divine sacrifice = very hard hits, and very fast. =D

Basically, DPS is almost as good as any other TWF paladin, save that I won't have the KotC bonus vs. outsiders. However, the fact that I'm using kamas isn't as big of a detriment as I feared it would be, since so much damage just comes from divine sacrifice or smite evil. Divine Sacrifice also increases the critical multiplier of those hits, and smite evil will do so with future enhancements.

Smite Evil and Divine Sacrifice do not break monk combos, so I alternate between those and Fists of Light, and every several of those, toss a Healing Ki on myself.

So, to sum it up: At level 9, the build took a big turn for the awesome. I'm starting to notice the healing amp, and have all of my core offensive abilities ready to utilize. The build is flexible, with very high saving throws all around, evasion, lots of HP, capable TWF melee damage, healing, and trap/lock ability.

It's going pretty darn well. Next big change is level 16, when I can start Shroud and work on a Dragontouched vestment. That's when the healing amp will jump from noticable to absurd.

[Quijonsith]

Definitely keep us updated Solar. Sounds like a really fun build.

[shurakaibob]

Yes please keep us informed about your further experiences with that cool character idea!

I m a bit afraid to ask this question as i can allready figure out the answers if i read 36 points in intruducing post, but... well... you know what comes: is this build somehow possible with 28 points? bah out with it ;-)

As fas as i see it, it goes down to this question: how low can i make wisdom and charisma to still have some use out of monk and paladin? In another post here it was said that cha isnt that important but well...


First idea in character generator would be

Str: 14
Dex: 15
Con: 12
Int: 8
Wis: 12 (or 14)
Cha: 14 (or 12)

Perhaps +2 tome for dex, or +1 tome and +1 lvl up?

I only played a monk till lvl 5 and really love the healing i got even at this low level. Believe immediatly that with a bit more concentration on this healing aspect it would really run well.

But is 12 wis enough? Is cha 12 too low? Tend towards Cha 14 for getting Divine Might II.

Would it be that bad to lower str to 12 (ok +1 attack and damage less, but thats not a ruining factor... isnt it?)... well dont think i would do that but worth the mentioning.

Would be nice if someone shares his thoughts on that.

[SolarDawning]

Yes please keep us informed about your further experiences with that cool character idea!

I m a bit afraid to ask this question as i can allready figure out the answers if i read 36 points in intruducing post, but... well... you know what comes: is this build somehow possible with 28 points? bah out with it ;-)

As fas as i see it, it goes down to this question: how low can i make wisdom and charisma to still have some use out of monk and paladin? In another post here it was said that cha isnt that important but well...


First idea in character generator would be

Str: 14
Dex: 15
Con: 12
Int: 8
Wis: 12 (or 14)
Cha: 14 (or 12)

Perhaps +2 tome for dex, or +1 tome and +1 lvl up?

I only played a monk till lvl 5 and really love the healing i got even at this low level. Believe immediatly that with a bit more concentration on this healing aspect it would really run well.

But is 12 wis enough? Is cha 12 too low? Tend towards Cha 14 for getting Divine Might II.

Would it be that bad to lower str to 12 (ok +1 attack and damage less, but thats not a ruining factor... isnt it?)... well dont think i would do that but worth the mentioning.

Would be nice if someone shares his thoughts on that.

I'd be wary of doing this with a 28-pt build, for a couple reasons:
1: This is one of the most multiple-stat dependant characters I've concieved of. Stretching yourself too thin will make things difficult.

2: This build is very intensive to both gear and playing skill- if you've played a character to 1750 favor and have unlocked 32-pt builds, you'll probably be in ample shape to try it out. If you're new to the game, it'll be difficult to make it work.

But if you're going to give it a shot anyways, I'd try the following:
Str: 14
Dex: 15 (Absolutely need a +2 tome by level 9 for Improved TWF)
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 10
Cha: 14

You want the 14 base charisma to eventually get divine might II, once you've sunk a +2 tome into it. The wisdom isn't too critical- it gives you more SP (useful, but not essential), AC (Won't matter past mid levels), will save (not too important), and maximum ki storage (Useful, but not essential.)

I wouldn't throw away any constitution, but that's just personal preference- I strongly dislike starting characters with less than 14 base CON.

[SolarDawning]

Definitely keep us updated Solar. Sounds like a really fun build.

Jumped into the Sentinels of Stormreach pack last night, ran N/H with my monk friend Sholete. I was 9, he 8. No problems, though we noted that those hobgoblin pirates with dual scimitars hit exceptionally hard, compared to all the other enemies in the adventure pack's quests.
We each also picked up out Torn Chitin Bracers, and upgraded them to Jidz-Tet'ka.

The 25% healing amplification appears to stack as expected from testing with Lay on Hands (which is always a static amount, no randomness involved). In other words, it stacks multiplicatively with other healing amplification, with no weirdness about when you equipped it relatively to other gear/have taken enhancements, a'la Finger Necklace.

At level 9 with Jidz-Tet'ka, Sup Potency item, and Paladin Devotion 2, highest Healing Ki finisher seen so far has been 54. Mid 40's are the usual results. It's going up!

[Inspire]

The 25% healing amplification appears to stack as expected from testing with Lay on Hands (which is always a static amount, no randomness involved). In other words, it stacks multiplicatively with other healing amplification, with no weirdness about when you equipped it relatively to other gear/have taken enhancements, a'la Finger Necklace.

I posted the new healing amplification numbers on Isolate's thread, if you want endgame reference.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Does Empower Healing work on the Healing Ki finisher?

[SolarDawning]

Does Empower Healing work on the Healing Ki finisher?

At one point in a past module metamagics did, but no longer do.

[AylinIsAwesome]

At one point in a past module metamagics did, but no longer do.

Arg, that's unfortunate. I would imagine Maximized Empowered Healing Kis would confuse people greatly.

[shurakaibob]

Thank you very much for making the effort and put out for me how a 28 points build would look like. Normally i m not too nervous if i miss 1 point attack and damage and/or 1 point AC/DC (lol..., just seen it after i wrote) but i really consider your 2nd advice not to try it as a newer player.

[T-Town_Titan]

Hit a 178 on healiing Ki....sup ador potion, wearing Gauntlets of Eternity & Jidz-Tet'ka fire stance ofcourse

8 pali 4 monk 1 rogue