How do Clerics heal better than FvS?

[PopeJual]

Dear Lord, I do not want to start a thread of flames, but I just don't get this. People keep saying that Clerics are vastly better at healing than FvS. I've tried to figure out how, but I have not been successful so far. I'm about to roll a FvS healer. Please help me avoid the error of my ways.

The only thing that I've seen that would make Clerics better is that they get their spells one level earlier than FvS.

So, the Cleric and Favored Soul spell lists are identical. Clerics get a free healing spell selection at each level, but FvS can certainly take that healing spell as well - they just have to use one of their slots. FvS appear to have the same healing amplifying Enhancements (Improved Empower Healing Spell, Cleric Life Magic, Prayer of Life, and Wand and Scroll Mastery). Clerics and FvS can get the same items/equipment. Clerics should expect to have higher DCs for their offensive spells, but I don't see many people making saving thows against their party's heal spells...

What makes Clerics superior as healers? What am I missing?

[Visty]

nothing makes clerics better

the only thing where clerics are better then favsouls is turn undead. and we all know how flawed that is

[Tumarek]

The only thing that i can think of, what would make a cleric a better choice is that if you want to have most buffs, combatspells and healingspells you wont be able to take every healing spell in the list and so the cleric will be able to spam them faster then a FvS.

But if you work on your spell selection a little this realls isnt much of an issue.

[blitzschlag]

fvs don't have improved empower healing enhancement line. they have improved empower spell. imo they heal equally well if equipped for it. fvs got the benefit of more sp and can afford to leave quicken on all the time.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Clerics get the spells one level earlier (not a huge deal), get all the Cure line of spells for free (so they have all the mass cures, and have plenty of room for buffs. My FvS is very delayed and restricted in which buffs to take when: just got Deathward at level 16 and only has mass cure light so far).
Clerics get enhancements to reduce the cost of (the already low cost on) Empower Healing, the only meta that works on Heal and Mass Heal.
Clerics can spend turns to do Divine Healing (minor heal over time), Divine Cleansing (remove disease/poison/etc), and/or Divine Vitality (restore some of another casters SP).
And, if a certain spell is needed that they don't normally carry, they can swap out and get it. They just have a lot more versatility over a FvS in terms of buffs and whatnot. As far as pure healing goes, it doesn't matter between the two usually. Clerics are going to be more efficient, but FvS have the sp to throw around.

[Tuney]

I think it deals with that if a favor soul spell selection. Sure if he can cast that level of spell they may have not taken it yet. But as a heal bot, a FVS wins easy, but no one needs a heal bot.

[shenthing]

Ok, so for the most part, straight up healing a FvS can do as well as a cleric. Up until recently, clerics had a little more ability to do what I call pre-emptive healing with CC spells such as cometfall and the like. While all the same spells are available to both classes, the expanded list from which clerics cast (spells available for casting) makes them a little better for this since you can have all of your healing spells, slay living, destruction, BB, implosion, etc, etc. It seems that spell penetration has been a little harder to get off as of recent, so you may do better as a FvS since you should have more spell points.

[Rasczak]

MY FvS keeps parties alive and running just as easily as my old cleric. Scroll or spell it makes no difference. Only difference I've seen is in Pugs, my FvS can now be in front doing more offensive casting as I have a blue bar that says "Just Do It!"

There's no I'm better than the other. A person who likes a massive spell point pool and doesn't differ the spells they use will go FvS. A person who likes to be laid back and take it easy will go cleric

Point is, it's preference, not the class.

[Shaamis]

FvS: More SP, less spells, have to pay to re-learn spells preciously chosen, and therefore not as flexible as clerics. FvS that are heal specced are just as good healers though.

Clerics are preferred healers IMO, because they can re-learn spells at a tavern for free, get an extra spell slot to represent domain spells (always a heal spell of some type) and can do nifty things like turn undead and Divine Vitality.

FvS get more SP though.

[FuzzyDuck81]

not so much now since FS have been around a while & theres TR too, but partly the perceptions may have been from earlier on when a high-level cleric was considered superior since they'd presumably just have more experience with the role than others who might have taken FS more as a "oh neat, a paladin with better spell selection" & played mostly as melee dps type with uber self-sufficiency when they 1st came out.

[The_Great_Samulas]

In answering this question there are two main aspects to consider. One, the leveling up process. This one isn't important to me, as I'm a vet who has levelled many toons to cap and knows the way to do it fast. Two, is what the game is like at endgame. This is what is important to me. You will have to decide what is important as far as you are concerned.

The main reason, I believe, people like clerics during the levelling up process like is you run into many FS that don't have the normal spells that make quests easier as you level. You often run into more melee specced FS in the under 10th level range, that are hopeless as far as healing and buffing. This has given FS a bad rep in this level range.

At endgame there are vistages of this but it is still the main problem of spell selection. I lead raids all the time, and I would rather have a cleric every single time. Case in point. You can do VoD on hard with a single cleric, you are taking your chances with a FS. Ever been clearing the way to find out the FS doesn't have deathward? Now you need another healer just for Deathward. So the deal is that FS can be quite good healers if they spec for it, but players quite readily grow tired of being a nanny and start to spread their wings (d@mn, that was good!). So you mostly run into FS that just don't have the spell selection to handle things as well as a cleric. The two most problematic spell levels are level 6 and level 8. Most FS don't carry Mass cure critical wounds (level 8), which is the most efficient mass cure at endgame (Amarath belts make it awesome). A cleric can go forever with this and empower healing.

The other main difference at endgame is the cleric capstone, which is very useful in epic situations, the abbott, and ToD. It is also very useful, just in general in most quests. The capstone for the FS is rather wimpy in endgame group oriented situations. Many FS end up burning mana to quickly to use it, because they leave on empower and maximize to make it useful but burn mana too fast on their masses because they left it on.

Another thing that distinguishes FS from Clerics is metamagics. FS tend to get empower instead of empower healing, because their enhancement lines favor this. Empower doesn't work on the heal spell or mass heal, and it is less efficient. That being said you run into alot of clerics that have empower instead of empower healing. Empower healing is much more useful than empower at endgame in group situations with barbarians with 900 hp and warforged with 85% healing amp in a good situation and often less. A cleric can easily solo heal a barb in ToD part 3 as the main tank, and give him the capstone just in case.

All that being said, I recommend FS for all beginning healbots. The mana is nice until you learn how to heal efficiently and/or get the items that make mana no longer a concern. I think many get enamored with the FS mana, but it really is a non-issue. Videos are out on these forums showing just how irrelevant this mana bonus is at endgame. Most of the inner circle of endgamers have known this for a long time, but you still get many that are still FS just for mana reasons. The real bonus of FS is saving throws and wings. Just get some advice on spell selection from your guildies as you level, and keep in mind scrolls and wands are the way to go on a FS. Once you have healing down and are getting bored being someones babysitter, you can become a less powerful healer and diversify your spell selection as a FS, or true reincarnate into a cleric. As long as your spell selection is good, FS can handle most content just as well as a cleric in a healbot capacity, its in elite raids and epic content that you see the difference.

I have two capped clerics and a capped FS, all with greensteele and raid gear. In my mind, my clerics are much more potent toons because of versatility. My clerics can be what they need to be to fill the aspect of the group that is missing, while still healing the group as needed. As far as solo play, I have never had an issue killing stuff on my clerics, and they can do it better than my FS on epic (because of BB DCs and capstone).

Anyways, this is my take on it based upon my experience.

[Visty]

I have two capped clerics and a capped FS, all with greensteele and raid gear. In my mind, my clerics are much more potent toons because of versatility. My clerics can be what they need to be to fill the aspect of the group that is missing, while still healing the group as needed. As far as solo play, I have never had an issue killing stuff on my clerics, and they can do it better than my FS on epic (because of BB DCs and capstone).

Anyways, this is my take on it based upon my experience.

sorry to burst your bubble but what makes clerics more versatile?
the spellselection cant be it as there arent even enough useful divine spells that fav souls will ever run into a problem

[Bloodhaven]

FVS > Cleric any day.

All other things being equal a FVS will out preform a cleric. More SP, Leap of faith, DR 10 silver, +10 fire/cold/lightning resist.

Meele or caster builds, if you make them exactly the same the FVS will be better every time.

The poor selection in divine spell list is not is valid reason to pick cleric over FVS. FVS requires more experience to play as well, 2500 favor to be exact. You can buy FVS and at that point you can roll one up and still be new to the game. On average you will have a MORE experienced player behind a FVS.

[barongt]

They don't.

Sorry, but between 800 more SP and free CLW, FVS > Cleric.

[Rasczak]

On average you will have a MORE experienced player behind a FVS.

I was like all agreeing, man, I think I nodded my head sometimes...(ok the FvS > Cleric I disagree with), but then you said this......and I felt like all betrayed and stuff....

[Mentor61]

The only way cleric = Favored soul is if said cleric rerolls as a Fvs.

[Anderei]

Once clerics get domains they might have to offer something FvS don't otherwise a FvS gets the nose first in almost all areas that matter.

[JOTMON]

Hard pressed to do better than a FvS assuming similar builds.

FvS=More Mana,no access to divine enhancements

Currently divine enhancements are ..meh.. when the PRE's for clerics get relesed there may be some good perks for clercis with Domain lines, but not really worthwhile holding your breath for those to come out.

Only thing I see is FvS try to spread themselves too thin trying to achieve MELEE(STR/DEX), MANA(CHA), and DC's(WIS) when they can realistically only really maintain 2 of the 3. Decide your path and stick to it.

Empower healing vs Empower, my clerics all dropped the EMP Heal for EMP, Empower works on all spells except Heal and Mass Heal(slow timer), who cares if you can hit a Barbarian for 1700 hp of heal when he has 950hp. Effecient healing is more usefull, rather cast 2 Heals when he falls below half then wait until he is almost dead before power healing him.

[Visty]

Hard pressed to do better than aFvs assuming similar builds.

FvS=More Mana,no access to divine enhancements

Currently divine enhancements are ..meh.. when the PRE's for clerics get relesed there may be some good perks for clercis with Divinity lines, but not really worthwhile holding your breath for those to come out.

Only thing I see is FvS try to spread themselves too thin trying to achieve MELEE(STR/DEX), MANA(CHA), and DC's(WIS) when they can realistically only really maintain 2 of the 3. Decide your path and stick to it.

though going with more then 14 starting cha is wasting buildpoints as for every 2 more cha (which is 4 and 6 buildpoints) you only get 29 more sp at lvl20 and thats not worth it

[Rasczak]

though going with more then 14 starting cha is wasting buildpoints as for every 2 more cha (which is 4 and 6 buildpoints) you only get 29 more sp at lvl20 and thats not worth it

Hey 29 extra sp with the vet item set sp clickie is an extra empowered / maxx'd bb
Because that's a good enough reason to do it

But yeah, sp comes from better places than trying to waste build points on cha.

We've derailed slightly though, the OP was who's a better healer.....I say none.