Sorcerer Tips

[Mentor61]

maybe 10% of casters will have what you're listing.Any of them missing can be offset with human adaptibility.And of course it depends on what tomes you've used.+3 or +4 which 99% of casters don't have (+4)

[Visty]

maybe 10% of casters will have what you're listing.Any of them missing can be offset with human adaptibility.And of course it depends on what tomes you've used.+3 or +4 which 99% of casters don't have (+4)

if you dont count +4 tomes then you cant count epic items either, which is a total -2 and results in the same

so again your statement is wrong (not that it wasnt to begin with cause 2dc isnt the difference between useless and killing everything)

[Mentor61]

if you dont count +4 tomes then you cant count epic items either, which is a total -2 and results in the same

so again your statement is wrong (not that it wasnt to begin with cause 2dc isnt the difference between useless and killing everything)

You're right about dc being 1 difference,drow would have 2 with WF,not human.

In any case,think 1dc doesn't make a difference?That would make the napkin useless now wouldn't it?

As a 20 wf you will NEVER succeed with just wail in Amrath.

As a 20 human you will sometimes succeed with wail

Both without energy drain tested extensively life 2 was WF life 3 human.

feel free to deny this but it's actually true.

WF have one purpose - Nukers able to withstand damage.Any time you're talking dc,they aren't there.

and if realistically you would change +4 tome to +3 human would effectively be 2dc ahead of wf.

[Spisey]

human:
18 base
05 lvlup
10 item
01 litany
04 tome
03 sorc
01 human
02 yugo pot
03 deneith pot
=
47

wf:
16 base
05 lvlup
10 item
01 litany
04 tome
03 sorc
02 yugo pot
03 deneith pot
=
44

thats a 3 point difference resulting in a dc difference of 1

and even if its a difference of 2 your post is still wrong

don't forget the extra feat back to +2 most wf sorcs can't afford the second feat..

[Visty]

I've done it all too and WF is good but if you are a min maxer,they just don't cut it.Even with litany and almost every other caster stuff, your wail won't land in amrath.A human sorc can get to 39 umd without any effort.That's 100% on heal and with the concentration it's just as reliable as the spell (not as fast of course...) and leaves your sp pool for what it really is,destroy everything you come across.

Spell pen?Sure go with no spell pen you'll only see a blue shield on every devil orthon and every other mob on anything higher than casual / normal.UMD is superior since it allows you to bypass every requirement in game for weapons or equipment.


Please stop saying what you think and making it sound like the only truth because anyone that has played half as much as you will know it's all fluff.

You're right about dc being 1 difference,drow would have 2 with WF,not human.

In any case,think 1dc doesn't make a difference?That would make the napkin useless now wouldn't it?

As a 20 wf you will NEVER succeed with just wail in Amrath.

As a 20 human you will sometimes succeed with wail

Both without energy drain tested extensively life 2 was WF life 3 human.

feel free to deny this but it's actually true.

WF have one purpose - Nukers able to withstand damage.Any time you're talking dc,they aren't there.

and if realistically you would change +4 tome to +3 human would effectively be 2dc ahead of wf.

we are getting somewhere

also its wrong that a wf will never succeed with wail.
i have a lvl19 wizard who is missing like 6 int for max, thats 3 less then your wf and he indeed does succeed
also my 38wis cleric has like 50% successrate in amrath if not more
i just think your perception is flawed

[Mentor61]

we are getting somewhere

also its wrong that a wf will never succeed with wail.
i have a lvl19 wizard who is missing like 6 int for max, thats 3 less then your wf and he indeed does succeed
also my 38wis cleric has like 50% successrate in amrath if not more
i just think your perception is flawed

It could be but I have all the sorcerer gear except for upgraded ring sets and shroud exceptional.
Litany,check
Abbot Staff - Check
Skill focus necro - check

Had same gear layout as 2nd life sorc (wf) and dc sucked.To think 1 dc doesn't make a difference is wrong.Just like 1 umd makes a huge difference.


And can we stop comparing a wizard to a sorc for dc purposes?It just doesn't make any sense.If comparing races at least,stick to the same classes.

[Visty]

And can we stop comparing a wizard to a sorc for dc purposes?It just doesn't make any sense.If comparing races at least,stick to the same classes.

rofl

tell me what wizard 19 gets dc wise what sorcs dont get
exactly, nothing

i even mentioned his lvl so you dont come with the capstone

[Mentor61]

rofl

tell me what wizard 19 gets dc wise what sorcs dont get
exactly, nothing

i even mentioned his lvl so you dont come with the capstone

Visty,I just missed he was 19.In the end who cares?We can both be right.i am right for the fact nobody has +4 tomes or just about

And you'd be right if everyone had +4 tomes.

So it's a wash.At least i can admit to where i was wrong - even if only partially wrong.


I also like that you left out where you make no sense IE 1 dc doesn't matter but that's ok,You just wanna argue the point you could possibly get away with.

[Arctigis]

I've done it all too and WF is good but if you are a min maxer,they just don't cut it.Even with litany and almost every other caster stuff, your wail won't land in amrath.A human sorc can get to 39 umd without any effort.That's 100% on heal and with the concentration it's just as reliable as the spell (not as fast of course...) and leaves your sp pool for what it really is,destroy everything you come across.

Most WF Sorcs have UMD too.

Spell pen?Sure go with no spell pen you'll only see a blue shield on every devil orthon and every other mob on anything higher than casual / normal.UMD is superior to having repair spell since it allows you to bypass every requirement in game for weapons or equipment.

Depends. Evokers don't care about spell pen. It's a playstyle choice. Personally, I replaced the SF:Necro feats
with SF:Evoc and haven't looked back. Everyone on this thread is correct if argued from their own playstyle
perspective! ;-)

Please stop saying what you think and making it sound like the only truth because anyone that has played half as much as you will know it's all fluff.

Not really. It's an effective playstyle, whether you think it's fluff is entirely subjective.

And BTW UMD + Human improved recovery = as much as repair.

Err, no. It might heal similar amounts (non-crit of course) but the cooldown is certainly not the same nor is it
necessary to swap any equipment. Reconstruct can also be quickened. Which is nice.

[Mentor61]

Most WF Sorcs have UMD too.


Yes but it's not really necessary since you can already use reconstruct scrolls 100%



Depends. Evokers don't care about spell pen. It's a playstyle choice. Personally, I replaced the SF:Necro feats
with SF:Evoc and haven't looked back. Everyone on this thread is correct if argued from their own playstyle
perspective! ;-)

agreed 100%




Not really. It's an effective playstyle, whether you think it's fluff is entirely subjective.



Err, no. It might heal similar amounts (non-crit of course) but the cooldown is certainly not the same nor is it
necessary to swap any equipment. Reconstruct can also be quickened. Which is nice.

True but the cooldown is not bad,the casting time is good too and All i need to swap at this time is torc for Golden cartouche,hardly inconvenient.

In the end it's what works for you.I never liked the main stat penalty to wf and still dislike it.I tried it to see if my opinion held any truth and to me,it sure did.The healing is nice but hardly worth the other sacrifices.And with a silver flame neckie,I can stand face to face with beholders the same as a WF would.

[Siskel]

So I have been trying to follow the thread. Max difference in DC for Sor depending on race is 2DC? So that equates to 10% difference in effectiveness. Assuming you can land the spell, but don't rolls of 1's always fail? Does that 10% really make it so WF can't use spells with a DC? Now if we are talking +30% difference then I can see where that will effectively push a reasonable success below 50%. I imagine what we really are arguing is the difference in DC between a human/Drow with some of the best DC gear to a WF sor with average DC gear. Given all things equal though we can assume a difference of 10% which in my opinion is a small sacrifice for the benefits of being WF. Not trying to stir the pot more, but I just don't see how a 10% penalty is making the WF gimp with wail and such.

[vVAnjilaVv]

I would have to say as far as survivabilty goes the WF'ed is superior on all fronts....however there also was a thread written when Amarath first came out showing how a 1-2 DC difference ended up meaning a lot more than a 5-10% difference in spells landing.

And u can say whatever u want about ur UMD and Heal scrolls, but there is just no way at all that a UMD'ed heal scroll is going to save ur life like a quickened reconstruct, especially under heavy fire when ur concentraion check is going to fail ocassionally.....and it will fail.

So I guess the real question is, would you rather have a higher probabilty of ur spell landing or a no fail life saving recon?

I guess it depends on ur playstyle and what u like to do...I just think it's a joke that people are even comparing a UMD'ed Heal scroll to a WF'ed cast Reconstruct.....especially with quicken...there simply is no comparison....Recon wins...end of story.

BTW...My level 20 Sorc is a drow......so this is not a biased view. It's true I can more easily get a higher DC, but it is also true that I can more easily die

[Mentor61]

I would have to say as far as survivabilty goes the WF'ed is superior on all fronts....however there also was a thread written when Amarath first came out showing how a 1-2 DC difference ended up meaning a lot more than a 5-10% difference in spells landing.

And u can say whatever u want about ur UMD and Heal scrolls, but there is just no way at all that a UMD'ed heal scroll is going to save ur life like a quickened reconstruct, especially under heavy fire when ur concentraion check is going to fail ocassionally.....and it will fail.

So I guess the real question is, would you rather have a higher probabilty of ur spell landing or a no fail life saving recon?

I guess it depends on ur playstyle and what u like to do...I just think it's a joke that people are even comparing a UMD'ed Heal scroll to a WF'ed cast Reconstruct.....especially with quicken...there simply is no comparison....Recon wins...end of story.

BTW...My level 20 Sorc is a drow......so this is not a biased view. It's true I can more easily get a higher DC, but it is also true that I can more easily die

The debate is not about umd versus reconstruct if you bothered to read it.And with stoneskin and displacement up,i don't see how and where popping a heal scroll is difficult.In fact my human sorcerer sucks so much he routinely soloes amrath quests.


And if your spell lands and kills,healing is not as necessary.

[bashemgud]

As a pure evoker, you won't need spell pen and necro focus. I don't use wail or FoD, and don't care about debuffs. But I do care about my DC, I will take evocation focus if possible and max cha. I don't wail or FoD devils, I burn them to the ground using lightning ^^

Wiz play vs sorc play, simple. This is 1 playstyle only, so take this into consideration.

[Sweyn]

the thing is I'm from Argo, king of Drama. Neg rep would only make me smile.

My job is done here. Drama ftw!

I do believe Khyber is the King of Drama, Argo has nothing compared to Khyber, now be gone

[Varis]

human:
18 base
05 lvlup
10 item
01 litany
04 tome
03 sorc
01 human
02 yugo pot
03 deneith pot
=
47

wf:
16 base
05 lvlup
10 item
01 litany
04 tome
03 sorc
02 yugo pot
03 deneith pot
=
44

thats a 3 point difference resulting in a dc difference of 1

and even if its a difference of 2 your post is still wrong

if you count a deneith pot for anything other then a nice screen shot, you're probably running a high fever...

Currently with a sustainable charisma the DC difference is 2, not counting the extra feat.

To make up for this, a warforged has a high survivability. I would not overrate it though, scroll healing is more then plenty for anything other then a really really bad mistake.

Even the TOD situation that is just so well loved to point out, were healing while running from the shades is so much better then if you had to scroll heal makes me shake my head.
Most anyone can kite that part just fine without healing, warforged seem to be more interested in getting hurt so they can reconstruct.


who knows... maybe when TOD goes epic the shades will move faster and finally give the warforged their day. Until then, all current content can be done just fine without the need for reconstruct.

[SweScar]

responses

Not bad tips, but get some more info first

The WF is a good Nuker= Cast Damage spells but he is worse on CC and instakill spells.
He have less Chr yes but for a all out KILLER he is Perfect.

The other races like drow for example is exellent if you want to build a Necromancer.

WF= Evocation spells

[soulaeon]

3: Take Haste and Wall of Fire ASAP

Wrong. Wall of Fire does not work the way it once did, and is now mediocre at best. Ice Storm can do the same damage, without any reflex check, on top of the fact that a fire-build is npopular at level 20.

4: There is no really good multiclass for the Sorcerer class, tho I've seen a few with 2 levels of rogue for evasion/UMD

Would you care to elaborate, or did you just expect seasoned players to agree with you? In most cases, multiclassing is the wrong way, but some can make it work, and it all depends on the goal.

5: You will want either a spell penetration item or the feat/enhancements from level 12 or so since alot foes have SR in mid-high level content

This is not really a sorcerer-specific suggestion, since sorcerers can get away without having any if they are a nuker-build.

8: Stoneskin is costly, yes, but worth the plat

Wrong. This assumes that it is already memoried, and some players may find no use for it, especially when wands work just as well.

9: Max your UMD as Sorcerers can reach in the low 40s with a good charisma, which is just enough for Heal scrolls
10: The best races for a Sorcerer are IMO, WF Human Drow, in this order

These two items contradict each other. As a sorcerer, your priorities are all about charisma, which is not possible if you are a warforged.
Instead of warning us that you will post more, why not explain why these suggestions are supposed to be helpful?

[leon00000]

mmhmm

[Cogdoc]

Let me just push the necro alert button here before things heat up to the temperature of the sun.

Cogdoc