Please ignore PVP suggestions!!!

[gavagai]

I think everyone can agree that this game should continue to expand its feature-set until it is comparable or superior to all other games on the market.

PvP is one of these features.

I'm not against adding features to make PvP more fun. But I think you have to be a little more realistic; "comparable or superior" is not going to happen, even if we allow 50-team battles or allow rogues to sneak and cut fortification in barrooms. PvP in DDO will continue to suck.

"Superior" PvP requires, IMO, some basics:

<1> High HP to DPS ratio, so players live long enough to make strategic choices. DDO's small HP pool and limited SP makes combat too rush and dump. Our DPS is geared to massive numbers of enemies with vastly more HPs than us, so reducing that DPS to "sensible PvP levels" will gimp PvE.

<2> A complex dynamic allowing all classes to counter other classes, leaving none out. DDO's PvP disadvantages most non-casters except AA Rangers. Rangers, Paladins, and Rogues are especially crippled by the lack of good PvP abilities (unless the Ranger takes F.E. in player races, or players become E.O., &c.).

<3> An intricate reward system that makes PvP profitable. DDO isn't geared to make PvP more important than PvE, which means its PvP will suffer. Period. In Shadowbane and other MMOs I've passingly flirted with, your guild targeted regions on the map to gather wealth and resources to craft powerful weapons no-one else could; or receive titles and gear with special l33t properties. Those devices guarantee that (a) there are people beyond gankers willing to PvP, and (b) there is rhythm to the PvP madness.

Judging by the framework DDO has, it will not have even "comparable" PvP even with a few minor tweaks. It will only have "comparable" PvP with a pretty major overhaul -- too much overhaul, IMO.

Best idea to integrate PvP beyond the barroom brawl is to just design a quest that allows two teams. Storming a castle to retrieve an artifact or something. You can marble PvE questing with optional PvP, everyone contributes towards quest completion even if they belong to a "bad at PvP" class. Pop a couple chests with normal per-level loot tables, and call it a day. It won't even be "comparable" to other MMO's for PvP -- but DDO is a different kind of MMO, and doesn't need to worry about those kinds of comparisons.

[fatherpirate]

To the devs,
Dont do it not under any condtions! I think the peeps that want it are WoW refugees that want to bring it to our beloved game!!
PvP = Smack talk , yeah more stress!
PvP = The days plans get ruined by getting killed when all I was doing was minding my own busness!!
PvP = Ambushed while all I was doing was walking from point A to point B!
PvP = Stop drop what your doing even if your 3/4 through a raid the guild is taking a hit!
PvP = Stress inside a guilds! Peeps leaving guilds or getting booted more often.
PvP = The only "winners" are peeps the spend their pc life in the game!!
PvP = DDO will become one of the herd, remain a stand out!
PvP = New guilds never get anywhere, ok guilds will whither and die.
PvP = "Ok you dont spend 18 hours a day in game grinding we don't want you in our guild."
Even with the "this side" ,neutrals and "that side" the neuts get accused of not truly being neutral and taken out anyway!
We don't want it, plenty are here because of the lack of it.
So just say NO to PvP!!!

for the record am against open pvp and am against SPECIAL armor sets for pvp ect..
that takes care of about 100% of your worries.

as for adding an outdoor area, exclusive for PvP - no quests, just a big outdoor area for folks that
like beating on eachother. - fine
I can understand that the tavern pvp area is very small and most folks that do that (I am not one of them)
are kinda burnt out on it, it also doesn't allow much in the way of strategy ect..

so, >>> IF <<< they were to add a outdoor PvP are, I would include an entrance to the area
from all the houses (that lead to a different starting area) I would also flag any
player with the house that they started in so there would be 'sides'.
so if you and your friends started from house P, all 'house P' PvPers would be on the same side.

also make a protected area for each house starting point, no spawn camping and let them fight it out
in 'no mans land' - for bragging rights only.

I could live with that - totally ignorable if you have no interest with it.

Some may say NO NO NO, it will start a chain reaction causing the game to march toward
total PvP mayham ! -- get a life...lol we should throw the PvP folks a bone now and then.

[NuclearCoffee]

Ok. to me Open PvP is the only way Ive played PvP in a MMO. that is what I'm making referece to, sorry about that.
PvP in this game IMO is not real PVP, it's fun I've done some of it, it's ok.
If DDO was to make some big battlefields along the line of tav brawls fine.

Smack talk,
I have no use for it.
When it's been on my servers, warnings and kicks were done.
Friend's Servers same diffrence. that was HL or UT or CS
Or a public server I'd leave if a could not put them on a iggy list, but then they would just stalk you if they could.
The server I'm on all the time I just can't leave like that, I've got so much time invested on it, not counting guild friends and such.

Not a good player,
I play rather well but this goes back to my point, in Open PvP only the power players would do well IMO, that why peeps multiclass now isn't it ?
Multiclassing is fine
There is so many of us that wish not to do that.

[Inspire]

A real man's man PvP suggestion;

Friendly Fire.

[Dandull]

Well i wrote a post about it so il just say yesyesyes to pvp.
First of all we need pvp becouse when u do all quests what else to do.
Second of all some rewards should be made for it, xp and money.
Those of u who dont like it, dont play it kill AI same monster 1000 times and let us fight.
And people cmon let them make some money, this engine is ok and i posted earlyer what should be done to make it work.
PvP is a great thing and we should make it work. Neglecting this part of game is a total mistake and i know that this game would be far much better if we had more pvp action.
MAKE IT WORK PLSPLS!!

[fatherpirate]

ok, tough love time.

99% of the folks playing DDO...dislike - hate PvP.
that is why they play here.

so if your looking for support to ANY kind of 'wow' style PvP..or warhammer ect. save your breath,
wrong group.

nothing against ya, just the wrong player base to be asking that.

[Dandull]

Ok by ur theorie so far Wizards should ignore us ha. And why shouldnt they give more pvp materials u can do both in game. No one can make u go pvp so why do u people even bother writing stuff like that. I think this post is total mistake that can hurt this company if they listen to you. They allready gave u what u wanted so dont be selfish its our turn now if we wanna fight guild vs guild etc. thats cool if u ask me. We can both play this game like we want no one should be neglected. 99% well if u wrote 90% i would maybee agree, but let them double or triple nubers on servers, let them have more players. I personaly enjoy pvp so please be fair, let us have more fun and let more people come all im saying. We all know D&D is the core all other games like wow, warhammer, aion are bad copyes and they took most of players just becouse pvp. Im just saying let DDO take what is rightfully theirs if u ask me.

[Visty]

Ok by ur theorie so far Wizards should ignore us ha. And why shouldnt they give more pvp materials u can do both in game. No one can make u go pvp so why do u people even bother writing stuff like that. I think this post is total mistake that can hurt this company if they listen to you. They allready gave u what u wanted so dont be selfish its our turn now if we wanna fight guild vs guild etc. thats cool if u ask me. We can both play this game like we want no one should be neglected. 99% well if u wrote 90% i would maybee agree, but let them double or triple nubers on servers, let them have more players. I personaly enjoy pvp so please be fair, let us have more fun and let more people come all im saying. We all know D&D is the core all other games like wow, warhammer, aion are bad copyes and they took most of players just becouse pvp. Im just saying let DDO take what is rightfully theirs if u ask me.

the reason is simple: we have full pvp already in game, you can do 6vs6 matches and all that, even CTF

and noone is doing it

theres no point in putting work into something noone does anyway, only what gets used brigns in money

[NuclearCoffee]

Ok by ur theorie so far Wizards should ignore us ha. And why shouldnt they give more pvp materials u can do both in game. No one can make u go pvp so why do u people even bother writing stuff like that. I think this post is total mistake that can hurt this company if they listen to you. They allready gave u what u wanted so dont be selfish its our turn now if we wanna fight guild vs guild etc. thats cool if u ask me. We can both play this game like we want no one should be neglected. 99% well if u wrote 90% i would maybee agree, but let them double or triple nubers on servers, let them have more players. I personaly enjoy pvp so please be fair, let us have more fun and let more people come all im saying. We all know D&D is the core all other games like wow, warhammer, aion are bad copyes and they took most of players just becouse pvp. Im just saying let DDO take what is rightfully theirs if u ask me.

NO OPEN PvP NO!!! Never saw PvP in Forgotten Relms handbook anywhere wonder why... ah PvP was not part of DnD!!

[Iakona]

To the devs,
Dont do it not under any condtions! I think the peeps that want it are WoW refugees that want to bring it to our beloved game!!
We don't want it, plenty are here because of the lack of it.
So just say NO to PvP!!!

Agreed! I left RoM because of unprovoked guild vs guild pvp and pimped end game guilds ganking the lowest level guilds and lowest level characters then farming the respawn points over and over just for numbers. And I will guarantee Turbine right now that open pvp in this game will cost them my account here as well. Immediately with no questions asked or other comments made. Someone posted they didn't know of any guilds ever closing shop because of pvp? Go to RoM where ANY level 4 or higher guild can be put in a server wide open pvp situation for a few thousand gold. And there are no level limitations on kills for it either. Yeah I saw many, many guilds close up shops once the jerks started their ganking in that game.

NONONO leadership boards. It just promotes the above type action from what amounts to childish immature bullies and braggarts.

OMG PvP in DnD? Gary Gigax would be rolling over in his grave!!! "Hold there Wizard, I shall slay thee with this raspberry and coconut covered Zinger then wash the blood off my boots with this high caffeine energy drink." "No rake, I will bash thee about the head and shoulders and blind thee with this handfull of 12 sided die, and while you are dodging that your life shall be taken by stuffing this purple snowball down your throat." <The DM looks about the gaming table at the drunken idiocy of the players, throws his hands in the air and commands: GAME OVER> PvP in DnD? What a thought.

Keep pvp exactly what it is: a way to waste time while looking for a group to play the game the way dnd has always meant to be played - as a grouping social game.

[Jasimine]

Comrade Twerrp, you speak with wisdom. I don't quite understand why they are so afraid of pvp, when pvp is fun and exciting (except for those who suck).

This is the mentality that drives many people away from PvP in the first place. Thanks :-)

I personally love PvP. I'm not to shabby at it in the games that I have done PvP. Those games include Ultima Online (Original Pre-Trammel UO were EVERYWERE was a PvP zone), Anarchy Online (Actually have areas were you can only get certin rewards by participating in PvP when I played), Guildwars (none of the crazy 8v8 GvG stuff, but some fun random assembly team stuff), and Eve Online (During my stint here I was a member of the White Rabbits).

All these systems have something in common, they were BUILT for PvP. Dungeons and Dragons was not. It was designed at it's core to be a team game. Stop at look at the solo builds out there. The top ones have many things in common, and ones that are not great soloists but work great in teams have many things in common. What are they?

Soloists
======
Fantastic self healing to heal through obscene amounts of damage
Evasion to make AoE spells near useless against them
Freedom of Movement to beable to avoid being held

Team Players
==========
Outstanding DPS OR Outstanding AC

No granted that discription is limited but it gets the general idea across. Certin classes will stack up 1v1 against other classes as better constantly. Rogues will get shafted due to heavy fortification, Wizards and Clerics will have the hands up due to their ability to imobilize opponants. Melee characters are some were in between. When you take out the team dynamic and just try paring each class up against one another suddenly things SEEM very unbalanced. That is because the rule system being used was never MENT for that kind of comparison. Each class has a one or more roles to fill. Many classes (FvS and Cleric mainly) Can fill ALOT of roles all at once. In the end, trying to mesh a visable form of PvP from the Dungeons and Dragons ruleset just won't work well. You would have to re-write everything from the ground up and I personally would rather have them working on fixing known bugs and bringing new content in the form of quests and finishing the PrE's instead.