A Swordmage - What to do?

[Thrudh]

Let me make a follow up suggestion genaricly......roll up a level 9 ranger. Establish yoursef as a solid melée tempest build two scimitar wielding elf. Get evasion and solid melée with wand healing at least. Then start adding wizard levels. You will establish your reputation (hopefully good) by the time your icon changes from ranger to wizard.

I agree with this too... a 12/8 ranger/wizard might be okay at 20... maybe... but the path to 20 matters too... At 14th level, a 11/3 ranger/wizard is lot more useful than a 7/7 ranger/wizard..

[Thrudh]

Your not going to contribute as an arcane (since your spells probably won't land, and you have no access to higher level spells) and your contribution as a melee will be nothing. If you like right now at the group boards, I doubt if you will see any group with a character on it with a split like yours. Unless you have a great guild (which you might) no group will take you.

I'm a bit confused by this... Which level breakdown are you refering to? A 12/8 fighter/wizard will certainly contribute as a melee... It won't be nothing...

It will be less than a 20 fighter, maybe even as bad as 60%, but that's not nothing...

[Varr]

IMO he will needs the rogue and pali to help him survive as a falchon wielding dps wizard. Tight guidlines to work in, elven falchion caster. Can still have hottest firewall in game, do ok swinging sword, have long and deep buffs, and modest web/fog debuff. Wand healing low, lay on hands umd scroll high. This is my best suggestion.

[Calebro]

Completely *not* what the OP was looking for, but my last post got me thinking:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(12 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 6 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 278
Spell Points: 650 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 19
Will: 14

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 23                   23
Dexterity            16                 18                   20
Constitution         12                 14                   14
Intelligence         12                 14                   14
Wisdom                8                 10                   10
Charisma             14                 16                   18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               7                 21                   21
Bluff                 2                  4                    4
Concentration         3                 25                   25
Diplomacy             2                  4                    4
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                6                  8                    8
Heal                 -1                  0                    0
Hide                  3                  5                    5
Intimidate            6                  8                    8
Jump                  7                 10                   10
Listen               -1                  0                    2
Move Silently         3                  5                    5
Open Lock             7                  9                    9
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                  2                    2
Search                1                  2                    4
Spot                  3                  4                    6
Swim                  3                  6                    6
Tumble                7                  9                    9
Use Magic Device      6                 27                   27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Sorcerer)


Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Sorcerer)


Level 11 (Sorcerer)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity III
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Redemption I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II

*I know, Arcane Fluidity sucks, but this was a flavor build.

[Thrudh]

IMO he will needs the rogue and pali to help him survive as a falchon wielding dps wizard. Tight guidlines to work in, elven falchion caster. Can still have hottest firewall in game, do ok swinging sword, have long and deep buffs, and modest web/fog debuff. Wand healing low, lay on hands umd scroll high. This is my best suggestion.

Why 2 levels of paladin with a wizard? Either go sorc/paladin/rogue or wiz/fighter/rogue (or just wizard/rogue).

Also, wizard levels do matter for firewalls... It's 2d6 + caster level... This is why my firewall is so weak with only 7 levels of wizard...

7th level wizard = 7 (average of 2d6) + 7 = 14
16th level wizard = 7 + 16 = 23
20th level wizard = 7 +20 = 27

Assume all enhancements are feats are the same... (although 7th level wizard loses another 10% because he can't get the 4th fire/cold damage enhancement)

7th level wizard's firewall is 52% the power of the 20th level wizard
16th level wizard's firewall is 85% the power of the 20th level wizard.

[Calebro]

Cool build...

I have 12/7/1 ranger/wizard/rogue (if he was lawful, I'd grab monk instead of rogue), and he is also GREAT FUN... but only on quests... He's not worth as much on raids, where self-sufficiency doesn't matter much, all that matters in raids is DPS.

I hear that bro, and I know exactly where you're coming from!

[Thrudh]

Completely *not* what the OP was looking for, but my last post got me thinking:

(12 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 6 Sorcerer)

6 levels of sorcerer means you only get one 3rd level spell. And the smart move would be to choose Displacement... However, not having self-cast Haste as a melee/caster would really suck...

6 levels of wizard gets you Haste, Displacement, AND Rage... (and two bonus feats)

Hard to splash sorc, since they are weak in the low levels.

[Calebro]

6 levels of sorcerer means you only get one 3rd level spell. And the smart move would be to choose Displacement... However, not having self-cast Haste as a melee/caster would really suck...

6 levels of wizard gets you Haste, Displacement, AND Rage...

Hard to splash sorc, since they are weak in the low levels.

True, but that was a quick flavor build, and Rogue Haste Boost offsets the loss of Haste a bit, so I consider that (almost) a wash.
Plus, Sorc synergizes better with Pally.

[Varr]

Ranger is out IMO since not twf.

Fire wall caps at level 10 I had though, could be remembering that wrong. (obviouly since level 7 caster min...LOL). Reguardless....a very hot and usefull firewall available.

Have all the fire/cold enhancements by 16.

Be it sorc or wis, since level ups will be in str, my suggested 14 cha +2 +6 on a wis is usefull for pali. Not much diff than this as sorc minus the expensive 2nd cha increase sorc could buy....potentialy one more to saves.

[gavagai]

True, but that was a quick flavor build, and Rogue Haste Boost offsets the loss of Haste a bit, so I consider that (almost) a wash.
Plus, Sorc synergizes better with Pally.

My 2 cents, after hearing what the OP wants:

IMO, if you are taking rogue you've already negated the benefit of the less than 8 caster levels, since items will be available that provide buffs at caster level 5. If you want the flavor of casting, 8 is the lowest I'd take any caster multiclass. By 12, you have the variety of spells, pool of SP, more powerful buffs so that you can actually be efficient. 12 is more fun IMO, but you'll spend more time scouring the Auction House and vendors for gear. Because you'll need gear to cover over the fact that more than half your levels are in a "non melee" class.

I'm a fan of the 12Sorc/6Pali/2Rogue or 2Monk builds. Pally LoH and Unyielding Sovereignty to relex squishiness issues a bit (and it is only a bit); Exalted Smite I and Sacrifice I give a nice tough of spike damage. Good (not great) saves go a great way towards survivability.

No matter how many caster levels you take, I would recommend on an elf splurging to get the 14 CON. Even with toughness and all 4 toughness enhancements, you will have lots of levels with base 4HP gain, and that is really bad. Stats layout could look like this:

28 point build:
STR 17  (13 points)
DEX 10
CON 14  (10 points)
INT   8
WIS  8
CHA 13  (5 points)

Monk is IMO much better than rogue, since you get arcane/divine wands anyway, and both sorcs and Palis are deeply feat starved. The major difference is, with a rogue, you have a higher UMD for using Divine Power scrolls; with a monk, you need to buy divine power clickies. But monk sounds more to the OP's style, esp. since he wants to forego shields. Two feats if huge on this kind of MC; on my current Rog splash build, I'm literally swapping feats whenever an opening appears (Empower for Maximize, IC for Power Attack, &c.). 2 feats > UMD and a 15% haste boost IMO, but these multiclasses are so customizable. YMMV

Be prepared to learn a lot from this character, and don't be forlorn if you decide you need to restart.

[Calebro]

This is why I put the disclaimer on that quick flavor build that it was *not* what the OP was looking for. I didn't want to derail his idea, which was an elven ftr/wiz concept.

[unbongwah]

What about, say, fighter 6 / wizard 12 with either rogue 2 or monk 2? Anyone playing a build like that? If so, how viable is it?

[rover223]

I once made a 2 rogue/2 ranger/ remainder wizard build a very fun character to play. I had to max out the numbers on my weapons in order to make the class work, that is finding +4s and +5s to make hitting a consistent occurence. The wizard buffs helped as far as survivability and hitting went. The character could heal itself with the wands afforded rangers, pick locks and remove traps as well as lend buffs, cc and some spell offence to the party. I don't know if at the highest levels if it would be a viable class however. When I had the toon levels only reached 14. I can't tell you if you give up too much in the front load of 4 levels to gimp a powerful wizard at the other end. Maybe try 2 levels of ranger and the remainder wizard on an elf and take advantage of sword and bow enhancements, also take toughness so you can survive being swatted.