A Swordmage - What to do?

[MuinainenKoski]

The question then is if you've found that using a single weapon is pointless then why do you want to? You'll always be a secondary melee anyway so I stand by what I said. My melee mage is currently khopesh and shield so the AC for now is useful but will be two hand in couple of levels when I've fixed her con and hps. I know that isn't a useful comparison to you but you should know about what other people are doing.

Essentially, I think both our characters wont be terribly strong at the end but fun is the key. Oh, and the kindness of strangers.

Single weapon as in one handed weapon alone without a shield or offhand. In NWN2 for example, you would get the 1.5x str bonus to wielding one handed weapon alone (by using it in two hands) which would work if it were so in DDO but it isnt. So I am compensating it by using a two-handed blade weapon (and I've read that falcion would be the best bet for that, and elfs having an enhancement line to buff those weapons doesnt hurt either).

I am aware they arent going to be "Ravager" strong melee dps:ses nor the best at what they do but that doesnt mean I want to make a gimp of them either, thus I'm asking advice here to make them as good as possibly even though they suck compared to muchkies :P

[MuinainenKoski]

As I said earlier, I have a 7 wiz multi, and the spell damage is non-existent with the exception of the occasional firewall when things get hairy. Even with all then enhancements available (2nd or 3rd teir, depending on the enhancement in question) and a superior combustion IV ring, and maximized, it's only useful when there absolutely NEEDS to be more damage output involved, and then only in conjuction with melee.

You don't have the SP for anything more, and if you use it too early you don't have the SP for it when it's needed.
It becomes a last resort to try and save a poorly run quest.
That's it.

The whole point of this would be to conbine arcane with melee, so not meleeing while using spells would defeat the purpose and I should roll a wizard instead :P

This is the kind of feedback I am looking for atm, keep it coming. Any lvl 11~ casters there? I am aware that the difference isnt that great, but still the extra SP and few feats (empower or maximize?) might take you long way?

[lazylaz]

Single weapon as in one handed weapon alone without a shield or offhand. In NWN2 for example, you would get the 1.5x str bonus to wielding one handed weapon alone (by using it in two hands) which would work if it were so DDO but it isnt. So I am compensating it by using a two-handed blade weapon (and I've read that falcion would be the best bet for that, and elfs having an enhancement line to buff those weapons doesnt hurt either).

I am aware they arent going to be "Ravager" strong melee dps:ses nor the best at what they do but that doesnt mean I want to make a gimp of them either, thus I'm asking advice here to make them as good as possibly even though they suck compared to muchkies :P

Fair enough. Falchion is a decent weapon. I'm still tossing up between khopesh and scimitar since scimitar has the cultural bonus as well.

[Calebro]

The whole point of this would be to conbine arcane with melee, so not meleeing while using spells would defeat the purpose and I should roll a wizard instead :P

This is the kind of feedback I am looking for atm, keep it coming. Any lvl 11~ casters there? I am aware that the difference isnt that great, but still the extra SP and few feats (empower or maximize?) might take you long way?

This only works for the toon in question because (at level 15) he has 54+ AC (with no raid gear), stoneskin, displacement, evasion, sneak attack damage, and maximized healing dragonmarks to keep himeself up if all those defenses fail.
With anything less he would go SPALT. If literally ANY ONE of those were missing, my toon would be useless, because he'd be dead.

[cyadra]

The whole point of this would be to conbine arcane with melee, so not meleeing while using spells would defeat the purpose and I should roll a wizard instead :P

This is the kind of feedback I am looking for atm, keep it coming. Any lvl 11~ casters there? I am aware that the difference isnt that great, but still the extra SP and few feats (empower or maximize?) might take you long way?

Your not going to contribute as an arcane (since your spells probably won't land, and you have no access to higher level spells) and your contribution as a melee will be nothing. If you like right now at the group boards, I doubt if you will see any group with a character on it with a split like yours. Unless you have a great guild (which you might) no group will take you.

[MuinainenKoski]

Been looking at a concept of monk instead of fighter though I think it would gimp the character badly...

Just thinking monks finishing moves work kinda like swordmage abilities are supposed to. Quick quiestions before abandoning the idea completely though:

Do finishing moves work while uncentered?
Understood that stances do not work while uncentered?
How rapidly does Ki degenerate while uncentered?
Can you only do elemental strikes while you're in a stance?

[Gol]

Well WF caster experience is the same as non-WF save for repair spells which I can ignore :P So any feedback would be welcome. Is there a damage dealing (be it only occasionally) build with 10ish levels in wizard/sorc?

One last comment and then I'm going to sign off this thread and just wish you the best. I've done my best to help, even if I was a bit misguided.

Pick flavor or function. One has to be priority, and the other takes the back seat. From reading your posts, you seem to be more after flavor, which means you will be lacking in functionality. If that's cool with you, then that's all that matters. I'd just warn you: don't expect to be allowed into endgame raids or endgame elite/epic groups.

Do what's fun for you - that's all that matters.

[Phidius]

If it helps any, I had a 16 Sorc/2 Paladin that primarily used falchions/scimitars when he could, as I had a flavor goal in mind too. I wanted to be an arcane fighter who cast in full plate without any spell failure.

I achieved that goal, but eventually deleted him because after all the sacrifices I made to build him, it turns out that he had nothing that a pure sorc didn't have, yet lost out on the things that really matter.

Building for flavor is all well and good, but you don't need the advice of forum posters to make such a build. Just roll it up, and have fun.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Let me make a follow up suggestion genaricly......roll up a level 9 ranger. Establish yoursef as a solid melée tempest build two scimitar wielding elf. Get evasion and solid melée with wand healing at least. Then start adding wizard levels. You will establish your reputation (hopefully good) by the time your icon changes from ranger to wizard.

That build offers the most IMO as an elven split. Worst case sinario, you self haste and run around with a silver bow and many shot when things get rough as you back fill gear. (12/8 ranger/wiz would be ok too, but I prefer 9/11 ranger/wizard splits I've seen. Also might consider late to convert from tempest to full blond arcaine archer.)

I like these suggestions. The Rgr/Wiz build has more SP than Ftr one will. A lot more actually. Mine is up to 816SP, and I have 4 lvls of Rog holding me back (well for SP anyway)

Another possibility is a Pure Wizard with the right stats. While mine is not a true battlemage, I do melee a lot with my Wiz18. I went Drow and high Dex ( a long time ago....before Insightful Ref feat) And took the Wep Finesse feat.
I carry a bunch of nice Rapiers, and although she doesn't do a lot of damage, she can contribute quite well in melee...especially in the right quests. (like a Smiter and Banisher in Rainbow for instance)
Anyway, with al those buffs, Wizards are not squishy. especially if you use some Rogue like agro management tactics. (like not getting seen first and attacking from behind)

I've made a few lowbie Rgr/Wiz combos. And after careful thought, I see Wiz5 as enough for a primarily melee build.
Wiz 7 would give Firewall, but a weak one. And DD, FireShield, Stoneskin...
But Stoneskin wands can be used with only one Wiz lvl.
Fireshield scrolls now last over a minute.

There is actually many ways you can go that can be effective. You just have to paln it well. Especially how much Int you are going to have.
But any multiclassed Wizard will suffer from low Spell Pen. And unless you take a whole lot of Int, will have low spells save DCs.

Buff though work well. But you do need to be careful about gettong agro from casters who cast Dispel Magic.

Displacement and Stoneskin are great buffs for high lvl content. Makes a huge difference in Amrath quests.

Evasion is the best feat in the game IMO. Making Rgr9+ very attractice.
TWF does the most DPS. Another plus for Rgrs.
A Rgr11 is a pretty good TWFer. Even better if he takes Tempest I. And Shield is kinda nice for a TWfer and an Archer IMO. (although AC at end game is hard to make meaningful)

Anyway, I'm partial to the Rgr/Wiz mixes. But I've seen other effective Battlemage builds too.

[transtemporal]

I think maybe the OP is talking about the Swordmage class from 4th edition, rather than a spellcaster that uses a sword. For those that haven't played 4e, a swordmage is a melee class (defender I think) that has caster-like powers and focuses them through a single light or heavy blade.

[GhoulsTouch]

I would take a couple levels in rogue to get sneak bonuses because you'd be flank not tank, a couple in fighter (or ranger), and the rest in wizard or sorcerer (putting points in diplomacy and bluff if you go the sorcerer route when you level in rogue to take advantage of those charisma based skills).

I might even consider a halfling for this build and go Twin Weapon Feat with finesse to get some enhancement weapons in both my mits to ubber up casting and start out with high dex. The flank racial bonuses plus the rogues sneak will be nice. So will not relying on spell points every battle.

More light weapons have caster enhancements. If you want to enhance melee on your caster do it to buff your caster's spellcasting abilities with TWF and Finesse I say.

[MuinainenKoski]

I think maybe the OP is talking about the Swordmage class from 4th edition, rather than a spellcaster that uses a sword. For those that haven't played 4e, a swordmage is a melee class (defender I think) that has caster-like powers and focuses them through a single light or heavy blade.

Right on

The 3E version would propably be bladesinger but they are more of a flashy fightingstyle that incorporates multiple swirling blades in their dance of death. The 4th edition swordmage can either be assault swordmage (heavy blades preferred) or defending swordmage (medium blades like longswords preferred). They have a bond with their Sword (not swords) and thus I don't want to dual wield.

Swordmage incorporates magic with his blade in his attacks. Think of a melee class who does Int based magic damage in addition to weapon damage. He also uses his magic to shield himself and his allies and to close the gaps in the battlefield with a teleport or flight spell. So yeah its foremost a sword with magic not magic with sword

[lazylaz]

Right on

The 3E version would propably be bladesinger but they are more of a flashy fightingstyle that incorporates multiple swirling blades in their dance of death. The 4th edition swordmage can either be assault swordmage (heavy blades preferred) or defending swordmage (medium blades like longswords preferred). They have a bond with their Sword (not swords) and thus I don't want to dual wield.

Swordmage incorporates magic with his blade in his attacks. Think of a melee class who does Int based magic damage in addition to weapon damage. He also uses his magic to shield himself and his allies and to close the gaps in the battlefield with a teleport or flight spell. So yeah its foremost a sword with magic not magic with sword

Well, that's what I want too, almost.

I haven't looked at 4E yet. Maybe I can get some ideas.

[MuinainenKoski]

Well, that's what I want too, almost.

I haven't looked at 4E yet. Maybe I can get some ideas.

Check like forgottenrealms wiki for ideas and get a copy of 4th edition rulebook, Swordmage is located in a book called "Arcane Power".

[Bacab]

Ok, this is different from what you started with...

But check out Elf Favored soul. You get to cast some healing spells/buff and ncie evocation with blade barrier and etc. Also you can go 18FVS/2MNk for nice AC and Evasion. I do applaud you on valuing character concept over Min/Maxing.

Sounds like you are after Eldritch Knight. It is a shame you do not like BRD. Though I think with UMD would could scroll your spells and still have a viable melee/caster toon.

[MuinainenKoski]

Ok, this is different from what you started with...

But check out Elf Favored soul. You get to cast some healing spells/buff and ncie evocation with blade barrier and etc. Also you can go 18FVS/2MNk for nice AC and Evasion. I do applaud you on valuing character concept over Min/Maxing.

Sounds like you are after Eldritch Knight. It is a shame you do not like BRD. Though I think with UMD would could scroll your spells and still have a viable melee/caster toon.

Eldritch knight is specialized in both arcane and martial and wields both with "equal" power. So they charge into battles throwing fireballs and burning hands while bashing with their weapon of choise.

Favoured Soul might pack alot of spells that are good and viable, but it is far away from the arcane perspective im trying to accomplish. Valid ideas yeah, but I dont want to stray too much.

[Varr]

hehe sorry op, I didn't catch single weapon....my brain told me melée caster and I went to two weapon automaticly. I can tell you why, and will be a hurdle for your plan from my experiance.....melée casters can't get strong enough to dps at end game with even a lightning 2 falchon. We simply must live and die with effect weapons.....banishing, smitting, disrupting....and our bread and butter....vorpals.

To be one weaponed is to be dps. For that I would try a elven 16/2/2 wizard/paladin/rogue.

16 starting str, +2 tome, +6 item, perma self raged +4 level ups for a 28 str.
12 con, 14 cha, 14 int....spend rest of your points as you see fit

Feated: two handed and improved two handed, toughness, ic slash, insightful reflex, extend, empower, max, heighten (will have decent int and level 8 spells to highten to), and on optional general feat.

This is how I would build exactly what your looking for.

[Calebro]

hehe sorry op, I didn't catch single weapon....my brain told me melée caster and I went to two weapon automaticly. I can tell you why, and will be a hurdle for your plan from my experiance.....melée casters can't get strong enough to dps at end game with even a lightning 2 falchon. We simply must live and die with effect weapons.....banishing, smitting, disrupting....and our bread and butter....vorpals.

To be one weaponed is to be dps. For that I would try a elven 16/2/2 wizard/paladin/rogue.

16 starting str, +2 tome, +6 item, perma self raged +4 level ups for a 28 str.
12 con, 14 cha, 14 int....spend rest of your points as you see fit

Feated: two handed and improved two handed, toughness, ic slash, insightful reflex, extend, empower, max, heighten (will have decent int and level 8 spells to highten to), and on optional general feat.

This is how I would build exactly what your looking for.

That's actually not a bad idea for this character, although I'm not sure that the Pally and/or Rogue is what he's looking for, it would work ok.
Maybe even rogue 3 / pally 7 / wiz (or sorc) 10 (although I'd still make a TWFer if it were me. )
Maybe 12 Pally / 2 Rogue / 6 Sorc ?

[Thrudh]

I have a halfling 3 monk/7 wiz/10 rogue (currently 3/7/5) that I log in as an alt once in a while. He's GREAT FUN, and much more capable than he appears at a glance, but his spells are almost exclusively buffs.

Cool build...

I have 12/7/1 ranger/wizard/rogue (if he was lawful, I'd grab monk instead of rogue), and he is also GREAT FUN... but only on quests... He's not worth as much on raids, where self-sufficiency doesn't matter much, all that matters in raids is DPS.

Wizard spells on a deep multi-class are only for buffing... Self-cast displacement is the main reason to have caster levels on a melee... Shield, Jump, Blur, Haste, Rage, FireShield are also very nice...

However, most of those spells can be found on clickables or wands now... So a pure melee with tons of gear will always be better than a melee/caster... Unfortunate, but true... plus with the new PrEs, not going to 18 in a melee class really hurts you...

Turbine has pretty much killed the melee/caster and really hurt multi-classing in general with their over-powered PrEs... My opinion, anyway..

FYI - Firewall is semi-useful, but you won't have many SP to cast it a lot, and it's about as 30% as powerful at end-game as a pure caster's firewall. Still, I do use it, and it does help (especially on undead quests).

I had a lot of fun with my ranger/wizard.... but I'll be TRing him soon (as soon as I get my 80th Shroud done, and hopefully a good +3 tome)

[Thrudh]

Of these, only Wall of Fire, Scorching Ray, and your Missiles don't allow saves. And for all of these, you have so few caster levels (and an incredibly small SP pool with which to cast them) that the damage output here is completely worthless.

This is true... although your weakened firewall becomes minimally useful instead of competely worthless when fighting undead