Need some help with Sneakcharmer

[Ultrazen]

Hey guys Working on a warchanter build that makes use of the hafling sneak boosts, along with a few levels of rogue, and one level of sorc for mana pool to be able to spam charms for effective use of sneak when solo.

I've played various versions of this build and rerolled a few times, just trying out some different setups. The one I'm playing currently is quite fun, as is the 3 fighter instead of rogue, warforged 2h fighting build.

Here's the build as it sits, would like some help refining a few things, and seeing if there is a more efficient order to take things in, and suggestions for any changes.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Neutral Good Halfling Female
(3 Rogue \ 1 Sorcerer \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 220
Spell Points: 745 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 18
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    20
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             16                    18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    27
Bluff                 7                    12
Concentration         3                    19
Diplomacy             3                     4
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                7                     8
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     6
Intimidate            3                     4
Jump                  6                    30
Listen                3                     5
Move Silently         3                     6
Open Lock             4                     5
Perform               n/a                  27
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  2                     5
Tumble                4                     5
Use Magic Device      7                    27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II


Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II


Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Perform I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III


Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III


Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV


Level 17 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery IV


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration II

This has been a pretty fun build so far, having a big mana pool at low levels on a bard, and being able to spam charm and a lot of sneak attacks solo has been a blast. Really fun toon to play so far, but would like to really refine this idea for a final reroll.

Cheers!

[Sirea]

The stats themselves aren't that bad. There are other things about your build that are off, though.

The 1 sorc may seem great now but it really doesn't get you that many more SP, it's not going to be double SP from items like some people think it grants. You'll get 3 weak Level 1 spells and a trivial amount of SP. There are ways at end-game through gear to get more SP than you'll probably ever need.

Most people splash rogue on a bard for a couple reasons: Evasion, and Trap skills. Bard have plenty of skill points if you were so inclined, you could max out, say, Perform, UMD, Seach, and DD. Though with your low INT you're not going to be getting a bonus to your trap skills, so that's kind of a moot point, and doesn't seem to be your aim with this build anyway. Splashing more than 2 levels could come back to bite you, as Bards haven't gotten their full PrEs yet and there's always a chance that there could be something decent there.

[RobinofSpiritwood]

It always seems that if you have a high Charisma, that a couple levels of Sorcerer would be a good idea. But generally it doesn't turn out to be the case because of the spell scaling effect of leveling. A single Sorc level is definitely a big deal at low levels for the SP boost. But as you gain levels, the advantage disappears.

If you are going Warchanter, the ability to charm at higher levels will diminish substantially compared to a Spellsinger. I suggest looking at a Spellsinger substitute for Warchanter, and dropping off the Sorcerer- you will get more SP, as well as better Charming power.

[Ultrazen]

I figured everyone would tell me to get rid of the sorc level :P I don't want to do that for a couple of reasons. I have a few different bard builds, one pure, one 18/2 rogue. This toon is a science experiment for sure.

As far as the mana boost from the 1 sorc level being trivial, I guess that's where I part ways. 200 extra mana really is never trivial for a bard, who in my opinion always feel way shorted on mana. In this build, and given what the goals for it were, I really don't care about what I would get out of a fighter level instead etc.

I guess this is more of a playstyle while leveling choice buildwise. Surely it won't be the best min/maxed endgame centric build, but that's not the point. The point is to have fun right away, and to be effective while leveling. I personally am tired of getting into groups on one of my leveling toons with some min/max gamer who still can't even cast a buff or throw a heal on some class because they are waiting for some +6 item.

/shrug. I actually don't care much about level 20, I tend to get bored well before that. I have a couple of toons that are min/max endgame speced toons, and by and large, I hate playing every one of them, because trying to level them feels like a job.

I understand that this is most likely a gimped build, just trying to make the best of a playstyle concept, and looking for feedback on how I can achieve that.

Cheers!

[Logic]

I'm trying to understand your build tactics.

If you charm something while sneaking then you get sneak attacks on it for the whole charm duration?

[Havenor]

I'm trying to understand your build tactics.

If you charm something while sneaking then you get sneak attacks on it for the whole charm duration?

If you are sneaking you can charm a mob to become your ally, and the charm effect actually lands before you emerge from stealth due to the casting of the spell. This way, if you come across let's say a pack of 6 hobgoblins, you charm the one in the back of the pack, causing the other 5 to aggro on it. Then you charm 2 more, so now half the pack is on your side. You drop back into stealth, wait for them to kill each other. If the ones still standing are not the ones you charmed, you will very likely be facing 3 very wounded easy kill hobs. If they are the charmed ones, you sneak up and hit Dismiss Charm on one at a time, and the other charmed ones will kill it, or you make it dance and off it yourself. It's a very nasty and effective tactic, assuming you are typically facing humanoids which are charmable.

[Logic]

If you are sneaking you can charm a mob to become your ally, and the charm effect actually lands before you emerge from stealth due to the casting of the spell. This way, if you come across let's say a pack of 6 hobgoblins, you charm the one in the back of the pack, causing the other 5 to aggro on it. Then you charm 2 more, so now half the pack is on your side. You drop back into stealth, wait for them to kill each other. If the ones still standing are not the ones you charmed, you will very likely be facing 3 very wounded easy kill hobs. If they are the charmed ones, you sneak up and hit Dismiss Charm on one at a time, and the other charmed ones will kill it, or you make it dance and off it yourself. It's a very nasty and effective tactic, assuming you are typically facing humanoids which are charmable.

Haha. Sounds like a fun build.