State of Concordant Opposition

[Danmor]

There have been a couple of threads and developer posts concerning Concordant Opposition. Since these are spread among threads and still under discussion I wanted to put all current information together in one place.
This thread is intended to gather all those in one place. There have been extensive tests by a couple of people that took their time and a lot of ingredients to test stacking rules and elicit a developer response. I just collected their posts in the hope of doing something useful.

Concordant Opposition Effects
Concordant Opposition is a guard effect that grants temporary hit points on hit and spell points on damage.
The percentage chance for this effect is currently 4% for each effect (hp and sp).

Stacking rules

• Currently weapons are claimed stack with themselves, this seems to be a bug and might get fixed in the future.
• Accessories do not stack with themselves, this seems to be working as intended.
• Weapon and accessory stack with each other, this should be considered a bug, as two Con-Ops are the same type of guard.

Note on weapon stacking: I haven't found a screenshot or a video supporting this. If you find one, please post it/pm the link.
Developer Quotes

It's a 1% chance to gain HP, and a separate roll for a 1% chance to gain SP.

So, you do have a 1 in ten thousand chance to get HP+SP on the same hit

I'm actually not 100% certain on the stacking nature of Concordant Opposition, as Piloto created it, not me.

With a prototype system, we're likely to err on the side of caution at times, especially when it's related to something we normally don't do (like SP healing).

We'll be tracking all the information we receive from it, and are very likely to make adjustments to things we find too weak or excessively powerful.

In response to:

I also want to know if the weapon + accessory stacking of CO (as it seems to be currently from all the testing data I have seen) is WAI or is it a bug subject to change?

Eladrin said

Guard effects should not stack with themselves, so it would be classified as a bug that is potentially subject to change.

No changes have been made to Concordant Opposition items since Piloto increased the proc rate from 1% to 4%, and increased the amount of spell points granted when it triggers. (Actions that were taken partially in response to this very thread.)

As a generally applicable rule, "guard" effects do not stack with themselves.
Temporary Hit Point guards typically trigger On Successful Hit, while Spell Point guards trigger On Damage, which explains the differences seen in proc rates.

Further Information
Several Con-Op items can proc at the same time. This is independent of the Torc triggering. Teth posted a screenshot in this post:

Wrong.

Screenshot

Several accessories don't do anything. See these tests:

Alright, got off my ass and went to test it myself.

With Concordant Opp gloves only...

started with 7sp @ 1:19:50

ended with 1042sp @ 1:31:50

So that's 1035 sp in 12 minutes at a rate of 86.26 sp/min

-------------

When I wore my concordant Opp goggles with the gloves...


started with 1sp @ 1:33:06

ended with 827sp @ 1:43:06

(was going to do 12 minutes again... but ran out of heal scrolls...)

So that's 826sp in 10 minutes at a rate of 82.7 sp/min


Same placement for both tests, same equipment, same 5 guys beating on me.

and Vhlad did some extensive testing with videos:

OK. CamStudio with divx codec for the win.
If you want to make your own videos, here are the settings I used:

CamStudio version 2.00 (free): http://camstudio.org/
Install camstudo.
Then, free download of divx here: http://www.divx.com/en/win
When installing divx, all you need to check is the codec box.

There was a box to install google chrome or toolbar or something for one of these, make sure you uncheck that ****.

Then load camstudo, and use the following settings:
Quality: 70
Set Key Frames Every: 30 frames
Capture frames every: 33 miliseconds
Playback rate: 30 frames/second
Compressor: DivX 6.8.5 Codec
Configure: 720HD profile, quality 3, 1-pass, 7000 bitrate

I can't guarantee that these settings will work well for you, but after a few hours of tinkering with settings, bad quality, low framerates, and trying 7 different codecs, this was the best I could get.

RESULTS:

Be prepared for the two most boring videos of your life. No sound. No animations or fancy text/circles/timers. Image quality is good: you can read the combat log. I'm making this post colorful to compensate.

Location: Deleras part 1, casual, 4 skeleton archers

First video:
No DR (shown in character window)
1 conc item (benefit shown in combat log when equipped)
6/1701 mana at 00:50
1550/1701 mana at 9:47
Summary: 1544 mana gained in 8:57 with 1 conc opp accessory
http://www.youtube.com/user/Vhladx?f.../1/FOcnX3Ss-24

Second video:
No DR (shown in character window)
3 conc items (benefit shown in combat log for each one when equipped)
1/1701 mana at 00:53
1531/1701 mana at 9:49
Summary: 1530 mana gained in 8:56 with 3 conc opp accessories
http://www.youtube.com/user/Vhladx?f.../0/WEBHWRBTk8Y

Video 1 you can watch in 720p. Video 2 is still processing. If you wait an hour it should be available in 720p.
Hopefully this works for everyone.

Edit:
The direct links to the videos work now (i.e. you don't have to go to my channel page).
First video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOcnX3Ss-24
Second video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEBHWRBTk8Y

It's too bad this is buried on page 27 and all the noobs are just going to look at the OP and potentially end up wasting their **** to craft **** that does nothing. Thanks devs!

Also evidence for weapon and accessory stacking done by Vhlad:

Evidence of 1 conc opp accessory stacking with 1 conc opp weapon

Location: Deleras part 1, casual, 4 skeleton archers

Third video:
No DR (shown in character window)
1 conc weapon +1 conc accessory (benefit shown in combat log for each one when equipped)
4/2499 mana at 00:46
2499/2499 mana at 7:54
Summary: 2495 mana gained in 7:08 with 1 conc opp accessory + 1 conc opp weapon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAMuXNWG88Y

The video is still processing. It should be available in 720p soon. I will be uploading a 4th test under the same conditions as the 3rd to demonstrate reproducibility.

Fourth video:
No DR (shown in character window)
1 conc weapon +1 conc accessory (benefit shown in combat log for each one when equipped)
14/2499 mana at 00:49
2493/2499 mana at 8:04
Summary: 2479 mana gained in 7:15 with 1 conc opp accessory + 1 conc opp weapon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FG_4OWlGeU


Really? Then why did you write this:


You were silent on these mechanics for 2 years. Players have invested many hours and resources to craft such items on multiple characters during this time. Are you going to offer us shroud item deconstruction?

I hope I got all the current correct information gathered here. If I missed something or said something that's incorrect, please post the correct information (with source).

[tihocan]

Weapon and accessory stack with each other, it is unclear whether this is WAI or not.

Seems pretty clear to me it's not, by Eladrin's post Guard effects should not stack with themselves, so it would be classified as a bug that is potentially subject to change. (which was precisely in answer to a question about weapon & accessory stacking).

[Danmor]

You're right. Fixed it.

[soupertc]

+1 rep for doin this for those who want to know.

I myself can't wait for these threads to go away. They are worse campaign comm on TV during an election year!!!

[lolwatboomer]

man does this suck for those with 5-6 conc opp/lit storm items heh

something like this should be stickied... but I have a feeling the devs want something like this to be ambiguous, so everyone can argue over another aspect of the game haha.

[toughguyjoe]

I'm so glad i'm lazy on shroud crafting.

[Halaryel]

thats a happy necro i made, so i wont waste ingredients

+1 reputation and thank you. Was hard to find informations via search, you made a nice work.

[Futility]

Can we, please get this thread stickied?

[nicro]

Where's the test verifying that two weapons stack?

[Missing_Minds]

Nice organization there, Danmor.

[tihocan]

Where's the test verifying that two weapons stack?

I don't remember seeing anyone reporting test results for this setup.

[lolwatboomer]

Here I am again, reiterating that this should be stickied!

[Cyr]

Excellent summary. Really hit all the major topics with referenced posts.

[Cyr]

I don't remember seeing anyone reporting test results for this setup.

I don't remember any testing for this case specifically either. However, the testing full boat testing indicated that their was a third CO item stacking compared to the single CO item equiped case. It would be nice to see a two weapon versus one weapon directly test for completness.

[Aspenor]

I don't remember seeing anyone reporting test results for this setup.

I did some calculations comparing the regen rates between 1 accessory and 1 weapon vs. 1 accessory and 2 weapons. The regen rates pointed to weapons stacking with each other, as the resulting rate was within the standard deviation for this to be true (but well outside the standard deviation for it to be false).

[Danmor]

I did some calculations comparing the regen rates between 1 accessory and 1 weapon vs. 1 accessory and 2 weapons. The regen rates pointed to weapons stacking with each other, as the resulting rate was within the standard deviation for this to be true (but well outside the standard deviation for it to be false).

Yeah, I remember something like that being posted somewhere. I'll have to look it up this weekend. Though it should probably be considered a bug as it's two like guards stacking :/

[mediocresurgeon]

Thanks for compiling the posts and summarizing. +rep
Yes, this should be stickied. The Devs should also ignore this thread, so that Conc Opp will stay as it is.

[Danmor]

Just looked through all the threads I could find on the topic and couldn't find a screenshot/video of weapons stacking.
There are some people that claim Con-Op weapons stack with themselves though.
Edited OP to reflect that.

[Aspenor]

Just looked through all the threads I could find on the topic and couldn't find a screenshot/video of weapons stacking.
There are some people that claim Con-Op weapons stack with themselves though.
Edited OP to reflect that.

In HolyAlliance's thread, he posted a video himself of comparing one accessory and one weapon to three accessories and two weapons. Logically, you can treat the three accessories as one accessory (since they do not stack). Therefore, you can see a comparison of two weapons and one accessory and one weapon and one accessory. I used an excel spreadsheet to calculate the expected regen rate with all rules considered (weapons not stacking, weapons stacking, accessories stacking, etc) and found that the rate of regen was closest to the expected rate if two weapons were to stack. It was well within the standard deviations. It was not even close to any of the other expected rates.

Conclusive? No. But I am still 99.9% sure that this is how it currently works.

[Danmor]

Yeah, that actually makes sense. I'll update the OP later. Thanks for the clarification.