To DM4 or Not to DM4...

[Hexanon]

Just a quick poll of opinions.

I am currently playing a Dwarf DPS Pally and loving it.
I am about to level to 16 (well I have XP banked...) and need to elicit the opinions of you fine men and women in the service of defeating evil.

Currently I look like this (Base+Tome+Level):

Strength      20 
Dexterity     17 
Constitution  12 
Intelligence  11 
Wisdom        10 
Charisma      18

(The extra int point was taken to allow for 2 skill points between level 3 and 7 with tome use)
I felt it was worth using a level up on CHA (base cost 3) instead of STR (base cost 2).

My choice is thus:
Do I use lvl16/20 to get CHA to 20 and hence DM4 or do I scrap the thought of DM4, settle for DM3 and place those points into STR?

[blitzschlag]

Just a quick poll of opinions.

I am currently playing a Dwarf DPS Pally and loving it.
I am about to level to 16 (well I have XP banked...) and need to elicit the opinions of you fine men and women in the service of defeating evil.

Currently I look like this (Base+Tome+Level):

Strength      20 
Dexterity     17 
Constitution  12 
Intelligence  11 
Wisdom        10 
Charisma      18

(The extra int point was taken to allow for 2 skill points between level 3 and 7 with tome use)
I felt it was worth using a level up on CHA (base cost 3) instead of STR (base cost 2).

My choice is thus:
Do I use lvl16/20 to get CHA to 20 and hence DM4 or do I scrap the thought of DM4, settle for DM3 and place those points into STR?

well, i have to say i tried several approaches and i could not find a satisfying way to have the 4 ap needed to spec it. divine might 3 + all relevant dps enhancements (and needed stuff like energy of the templar II) and i just can't find a way to get to dm4 that is justifyable.

i still went for 16 cha (on a human build for my wife) just to have the option if the +4 tome drops someday.

[KKDragonLord]

Just a quick poll of opinions.

I am currently playing a Dwarf DPS Pally and loving it.
I am about to level to 16 (well I have XP banked...) and need to elicit the opinions of you fine men and women in the service of defeating evil.

Currently I look like this (Base+Tome+Level):

Strength      20 
Dexterity     17 
Constitution  12 
Intelligence  11 
Wisdom        10 
Charisma      18

(The extra int point was taken to allow for 2 skill points between level 3 and 7 with tome use)
I felt it was worth using a level up on CHA (base cost 3) instead of STR (base cost 2).

My choice is thus:
Do I use lvl16/20 to get CHA to 20 and hence DM4 or do I scrap the thought of DM4, settle for DM3 and place those points into STR?

Your stat distribution is confusing, please separate base from tomes and level ups
DM4 is very costly on enhancement points, make a lvl20 distribution in the character builder to see what the trade-offs would be.

well, i have to say i tried several approaches and i could not find a satisfying way to have the 4 ap needed to spec it. divine might 3 + all relevant dps enhancements (and needed stuff like energy of the templar III) and i just can't find a way to get to dm4 that is justifyable.

i still went for 16 cha (on a human build for my wife) just to have the option if the +4 tome drops someday.

For KotC, energy of the templar 3 is unnecessary. As well as courage of good 3 btw

[blitzschlag]

Your stat distribution is confusing, plsease separate base from tomes and level ups
DM4 is very costly on enhancement points, make a lvl20 distribution in the character builder to see what the trade-offs would be.



For KotC, energy of the templar 3 is unnecessary.

y, typo. you need eott2 for kotc2 however corrected it

[Gercho]

i think its a close call, from cha and dm IV you get 2 to damage almost all the time, from 2 to str you get +1 att and +1 damage all the time, you get a little bigger loh and +1 saves from cha too, for a twf i think DMIV is the way to go if you can fit all the dps enhancements, as a dwarf i guess you are investing on axe damage aswell, so it could be tricky.

The only pity about investing in cha, is that if you get a higher cha tome you would need to lesser reincarnate or just waste cha points...

[whomhead]

It seems to me that a dwarf dual-wielding dwarven axes with significant investment into the axe damage enhancements would benefit relatively less than a human paladin, for example, who doesn't have all those nifty damage boosters. Since the opportunity cost is much higher on a dwarf (20 charisma from a base of 6 = yikes!), the benefit is marginalized by the nice damage enhancements, and you get a bonus to hit from more strength, I would probably not go for DMIV.

[Gercho]

Well, he has invested already up to cha 18, so its just 2 points in cha vs 2 points in str, all that he already invested doesnt matters.

The only thing that could matter is if he has the enhancements points or not, and what he needs to sacrifice to get dmIV if he is sacrificing the AC enhancements, then there is no problem, if he is sacrificing other dps enhancements, then it could be not worthy

[Hexanon]

Your stat distribution is confusing, please separate base from tomes and level ups
DM4 is very costly on enhancement points, make a lvl20 distribution in the character builder to see what the trade-offs would be.

 
                 Base    Tome   Level   Total@15 
Strength          16        2      2         20 
Dexterity         15        2                17 
Constitution      10        2                12 
Intelligence      9         2                11 
Wisdom            8         2                10 
Charisma          15        2      1         18

The 18 Cha is for DM3 at least. I could not warrant stopping at DM2 with a pure Pally.

With my current enhancement plan I have manged to fit in almost all the damage enhancements that I am aware of as well as squeak in Redemption I (Most grps love having a backup rez in case it's the healer that goes down). The choice is between DM4 and Exalted Smite IV leaving me 3 pts to spare.

enhancements:

Dwarven Axe Damage I
Dwarven Axe Damage II
Follower of the Sovereign Host
Paladin Courage of Good I
Paladin Courage of Good II
Paladin Devotion I
Paladin Devotion II
Paladin Divine Might I
Paladin Divine Might II
Paladin Divine Might III
Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Paladin Divine Sacrifice III
Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Paladin Exalted Smite I
Paladin Exalted Smite II
Paladin Exalted Smite III
Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Paladin Redemption I
Paladin Toughness I
Paladin Toughness II
Paladin Weapons of Good
Racial Toughness I
Racial Toughness II
Unyielding Sovereignty

This leaves me 7 AP left to play with - either DM4 or Exalted Smite IV (20 or 18 CHA) and an Armour Bonus or Attack bonus or constitution bonus and a fluff item such as Faith. If there is something I'm missing it may change the outlook..

[Gercho]

not sure what paladin devotion does, i dont have it with my dps pala, and i use umd for resurrect others, so i save on redemption aswell, all the others are must have, if you can fit both dm IV and Exalted Smite IV would be nice, if you have spare points maybe resistance of good will be nice to have...

[gavagai]

 
                 Base    Tome   Level   Total@15 
Strength          16        2      2         20 
Dexterity         15        2                17 
Constitution      10        2                12 
Intelligence      9         2                11 
Wisdom            8         2                10 
Charisma          15        2      1         18

The 18 Cha is for DM3 at least. I could not warrant stopping at DM2 with a pure Pally.

You have a 16 base CHA with a +2tome already; perfect to hit 20 with a +4 tome without any excess CHA investment, should that ever happen.

No need to put any more level-ups in CHA. Put the last two in STR. And with some luck from the Raid loot gods, you can have your cake and eat it too.

[Hexanon]

Devotion is a prereq to redemption (Either that or heal - and devotion affects LoH as far as I know - I get +150hp at the moment)
Once I can get my UMD up enough (Currently only 11) I can drop these..

[sephiroth1084]

I'm pretty sure that DM IV will end up being more DPS than both Exalted Smite III (IV) and Divine Sacrifice III combined.

However, an extra Str bracket (or two) + ES III + DS III will be greater than DM IV.

I'd suggest continuing to increase Str.

Also, if you ever acquire a +4 tome down the road, you'll be able to pick up DM IV.

As far as enhancements go...you could always drop Dwarven Axe Damage II for DM IV; same cost but DM is offering +2 damage vs. DAD's +1. Or you could drop Redemption, which is very expensive, at least after you acquire another means of raising the dead, such as the Ring of the Ancestors or a Pos/Pos Shroud item (something everyone who can't Raise with mana or UMD shuold make!)

[KKDragonLord]

What Ferrum said.
Redemtpion is a very unhealthy way of gimping your pally (which is a class that needs all the edge on DPS it can get).
I personally use UMD with Raise scrolls on my 14cha WF pally, so you shouldnt have a problem (if you invest in the skill)

[Hexanon]

Thanks all for that - sound advice indeed.
I will respec to ensure I have all the damage I can have at the moment and keep levelling up STR and pray to the +4 tome gods