New Named items?

[dragonofsteel2]

Hope they dont make items making us take feats to get the real benfit out them, would it not just be better making the feat more useiful instead. Do not understand why it would be better to pigeon hole items then making the user come up the ideal how to use them for fun or affetivness.

Do not mind class built items, but I do mind feat built items. In my thoughts its a bad road to go down, it just makes the game more complex. Seems a lot of people already have trouble understanding the rules out there.

The problem with dragonmarks to me, you have to take more and more feats to get any use out them. A better why to make them useiful make one feat and enhancements points to get the max. benfit. To me this would help fix the problem with them. A lot of classes or feat strave and taking 2 to 3 feats for minor benfits messes the build up in other areas. Though if made it one feat and enhancements, I believe it could prove more useiful way to explore. So in my mind you have two chooses leave them be and explore other routes or fix the problem, do not make items required feats that have not much use. (Fix the problem, do not use items to make feats more effective please.) Is really hard to change a feat to make more wanted?

[Zenako]

Could definitely see this being held as one of the weapon combos on any Singing/Facinating Bard. I suspect the rate is probably gonna be on the order of 1 song per minute or something like that, otherwise it would be too much (IMO). Kinda like the REGEN rate from Trollish Ring or the Worldshaper CLoak.

On a high CHA Bard, you could easily be +10 more to hit using CHA as your basis. Now I grant, other than love taps, you will not be a killing machine holding this, but that is not the intent from what I see.

The key for weather anyone bothers with it at higher levels will be the changes it sees when Epicified.

Right now, an active singer can easily run out of songs between shrines in the mid levels. This will make it more viable to fascinate more often.

One seriously good thing that they have done is convert a lot of items like this to Bind to ACCOUNT, instead of character. That is a very very good decision.

[zealous]

Hope they dont make items making us take feats to get the real benfit out them, would it not just be better making the feat more useiful instead. Do not understand why it would be better to pigeon hole items then making the user come up the ideal how to use them for fun or affetivness.

Do not mind class built items, but I do mind feat built items. In my thoughts its a bad road to go down, it just makes the game more complex. Seems a lot of people already have trouble understanding the rules out there.

The problem with dragonmarks to me, you have to take more and more feats to get any use out them. A better why to make them useiful make one feat and enhancements points to get the max. benfit. To me this would help fix the problem with them. A lot of classes or feat strave and taking 2 to 3 feats for minor benfits messes the build up in other areas. Though if made it one feat and enhancements, I believe it could prove more useiful way to explore. So in my mind you have two chooses leave them be and explore other routes or fix the problem, do not make items required feats that have not much use. (Fix the problem, do not use items to make feats more effective please.) Is really hard to change a feat to make more wanted?

I agree that making useless feats useful is better than making items to make useless feats seem attractive. However, adding complexity in the form of items keying off feats is a good thing imo, as long as it keys off feats people might have a reason to take anyway.

[Zenako]

Hope they dont make items making us take feats to get the real benfit out them, would it not just be better making the feat more useiful instead. Do not understand why it would be better to pigeon hole items then making the user come up the ideal how to use them for fun or affetivness.

Do not mind class built items, but I do mind feat built items. In my thoughts its a bad road to go down, it just makes the game more complex. Seems a lot of people already have trouble understanding the rules out there.

The problem with dragonmarks to me, you have to take more and more feats to get any use out them. A better why to make them useiful make one feat and enhancements points to get the max. benfit. To me this would help fix the problem with them. A lot of classes or feat strave and taking 2 to 3 feats for minor benfits messes the build up in other areas. Though if made it one feat and enhancements, I believe it could prove more useiful way to explore. So in my mind you have two chooses leave them be and explore other routes or fix the problem, do not make items required feats that have not much use. (Fix the problem, do not use items to make feats more effective please.) Is really hard to change a feat to make more wanted?

But turn this around. They are making an item of use for those handfuls of players who do choose to go down the Dragon Mark route. Given the number of tats I see running around, there are quite a few of them. Probably not on many power gamers, but on those looking to explore options on a character for example, or who just like the effects and what they give those characters, instead of a few more HP or something like that. Makes the character more of a character instead of a pixel pile.

Some of the items many power gamers crave have little appeal or use for that other pile of players.

Its creating niche items that appeal to many niches, that some players can go after if they want to. The "crafting" in this case is pretty easy and straightforward and promises to give the set of quests a lot more play than they would otherwise get. The EXP / time is OK as well. Will capped toons run these quests for these items, not for themselves thats for sure. But as hand me down twinks like the Sharn Syndicate items, you betcha. Just like many of the Delara's items are now BtA, making them more useful to grab if you fail to get the item you seek (Cartouche, cartouche, cartouche....)

[Zenako]

Of all the items we've seen so far, this one has some really good potential for epic. Plus, its a monk item

The nice thing about these bracers and the bard rapier is that the ability to boost a core feature of those classes is what really sets them apart. So those boosts are moderately useful at lower levels.

If they can be made EPIC, it will only be worthwhile if the boosts from that SLOT is still worth it on a level 20 character. When you have many powerful items competeing for those slots.

[zealous]

But turn this around. They are making an item of use for those handfuls of players who do choose to go down the Dragon Mark route. Given the number of tats I see running around, there are quite a few of them. Probably not on many power gamers, but on those looking to explore options on a character for example, or who just like the effects and what they give those characters, instead of a few more HP or something like that. Makes the character more of a character instead of a pixel pile.

Think about it.

A. Make item to make feat more attractive.
For a very limited set of builds and likely a quite limited level range, both the feat + item makes it somewhat reasonable to have both.
Before attaining item, the feat is ~useless.
As soon as you level past the item being useful, the feat becomes ~useless.
The item is ~useless for someone not having the required feat.

B. Fix useless feats, make items keying off useful feats, make the items be somewhat useful even without the feat.
People do not make the mistake of "exploring" ~useless feats.
You might get larger variation between characters, if there are more useful feats than you can fit into a build.
You avoid the problem of the content not being regularly run due to low incentive to run it.
You still get the character customization boons, in fact you can likely get larger customization due to adding another layer of complexity.

[Zenako]

Think about it.

A. Make item to make feat more attractive.
For a very limited set of builds and likely a quite limited level range, both the feat + item makes it somewhat reasonable to have both.
Before attaining item, the feat is ~useless.
As soon as you level past the item being useful, the feat becomes ~useless.
The item is ~useless for someone not having the required feat.

B. Fix useless feats, make items keying off useful feats, make the items be somewhat useful even without the feat.
People do not make the mistake of "exploring" ~useless feats.
You might get larger variation between characters, if there are more useful feats than you can fit into a build.
You avoid the problem of the content not being regularly run due to low incentive to run it.
You still get the character customization boons, in fact you can likely get larger customization due to adding another layer of complexity.

The key to your arguement however lies in what you consider "useless".

The Healing Dragonmarks for example are probably useless for someone who has plenty of in game cash and resources and tosses around stacks of pots and scrolls without a care. But if the player does not have a high level sugar daddy to support them, they can be very very useful. Also for those players going by a self imposed restriction of perhaps only using what they pull from chests or quests for example. Many highly respected characters would lose some of their shine if they could only use stuff that was pulled from chests. No more stacks of HEAL or RAISE DEAD scrolls at your fingertips. No more Self Teleporting via Scroll from anywhere. Etc.

Are some Dragonmarks better than others? Sure and even more so when you factor in how they mesh with playstyle choice. While many players adhere to the zoom thru the quests mentality, quite a few are more than content to explore and smell the roses and see what lies around. Those are the same ones who I have heard, "I want to run different quests" not the same one 8 times to get max EXP".

Many of those players are perfectly happy being a good fighter, or a good cleric, and have fun while doing it and are not striving to be a great fighter or great cleric and feel like they are pigeonholed into a narrow niche.

A simple example. The recent Ice Games and the results of the Secret Recipe. It took 4 recipes a twig (currently hard to get), and some other stuff to make a CR10 Snowman Elemental. Most veteran players were at most amused by the concept but quickly decided it was "not worth the effort". However, I have observed that some players find them really cool to have and "neat" and fun. Some things are really just done to have fun, not to be the best.

For any player whose goal in the game is simply just to be the best, then anything that does not support that concept is irrelevant.
For a player whose goal in the game is simply just to have fun, then anything that makes gaming more "fun" is a good thing.

I think many of these items might fall into that secondary role and that is fine.

[Sir_Chonas]

Somebody please epic those monk bracers ASAP. . . That will be the sole determining factor of my purchase of this pack. . . If they even EQUAL the bracers of deftness +8, I'm buying this pack.

[Vorn]

Although it may seem rather 4.0-ish, would it be so bad to have the rapier's to hit AND damage be based on Charisma? That might be interesting to some bards.

[zealous]

The Healing Dragonmarks for example are probably useless for someone who has plenty of in game cash and resources and tosses around stacks of pots and scrolls without a care.

I would argue that healing dragonmarks can be quite useful even if you are wading in pots and scrolls. Healing dragonmarks have some obvious benefits over pots and scrolls as well as over spells. Healing dragonmarks are good feats even if they aren't "must have" feats.

I wouldn't call weak feats like sap, improved feint, resilience and precision useless, they could use some improvement though.

~Useless feats would be hamstring, slicing blow, power critical, the majority of skill boosting feats, higher tier sentinel feats and probably all warding feats(since it'd take a certain party composition and playstyle to make them somewhat viable).

A simple example. The recent Ice Games and the results of the Secret Recipe. It took 4 recipes a twig (currently hard to get), and some other stuff to make a CR10 Snowman Elemental. Most veteran players were at most amused by the concept but quickly decided it was "not worth the effort". However, I have observed that some players find them really cool to have and "neat" and fun. Some things are really just done to have fun, not to be the best.

For any player whose goal in the game is simply just to be the best, then anything that does not support that concept is irrelevant.
For a player whose goal in the game is simply just to have fun, then anything that makes gaming more "fun" is a good thing.

If the graphics for the rapier is indeed a rubber chicken I will retract my statements as to the usefulness of it. I might argue that mohawk grenades break my imurshun though.

[Coldin]

If the graphics for the rapier is indeed a rubber chicken I will retract my statements as to the usefulness of it. I might argue that mohawk grenades break my imurshun though.

A rubber chicken with a pulley in the middle?

[Aesop]

Bracers sound nifty

Bastard Sword needs improvement make it straight up Shock and maybe +2

Rapier ...maybe has use... but could definately be better

Armor needs a boost... maybe add Maiming to it or some of that Insight bonus to Fortification... otherwise its just Lifeshield +1 Fullplate that a Barb can use

Aesop

[gavagai]

Although it may seem rather 4.0-ish, would it be so bad to have the rapier's to hit AND damage be based on Charisma? That might be interesting to some bards.

Sadly, the only bards that will have the 40+ CHA to make such a weapon sensible will be precisely those bards you don't want on the front lines.

The to-hit is a nice gift to a bard using this, but the major issue in the Epic version of this for me is how high that Devotion and Song Regen is going to go. Because a support bard with 40 CHA is going to LOVE a high Devotion weapon with other goodies on it.

Also remember: we have no idea whether future Bard PrE tiers will include new songs. Here's to hoping...

[Dylos_Moon]

Although it may seem rather 4.0-ish, would it be so bad to have the rapier's to hit AND damage be based on Charisma? That might be interesting to some bards.

Whose to say the epic version won't use charisma for damage as well?

Sadly, the only bards that will have the 40+ CHA to make such a weapon sensible will be precisely those bards you don't want on the front lines.

The to-hit is a nice gift to a bard using this, but the major issue in the Epic version of this for me is how high that Devotion and Song Regen is going to go. Because a support bard with 40 CHA is going to LOVE a high Devotion weapon with other goodies on it.

Also remember: we have no idea whether future Bard PrE tiers will include new songs. Here's to hoping...

I think a bard that maxxed both charisma and constitution would get some milage out of this, not so much on epic though.

[Jay203]

The base upgrades should be very quick. Sigils have a decent chance to drop even on normal, and better chances on hard/elite/epic, and are guaranteed drops on the quest chain end reward list.

Eladrin, i must have REALLY **** luck then
i've only pulled 2 sigils out of close to 20 runs on hard/elite >_>

[TreknaQudane]

Eladrin, i must have REALLY **** luck then
i've only pulled 2 sigils out of close to 20 runs on hard/elite >_>

The main thing I've had trouble finding is the Goat


Has anyone had 'Spies' drop a sigil other than Dragon? Five of them dropped during my runs of it, nothing else.

[Impatiens]

Has anyone put those new bracers on a monk yet to see what the bonuses they give to the elemental stances are? I'm sure the whole monk community is very curious.

[drac317]

Has anyone put those new bracers on a monk yet to see what the bonuses they give to the elemental stances are? I'm sure the whole monk community is very curious.

im intrested to see if there useful on an acro/monk build

[Schmoe]

Eladrin has posted that there is a bug in the drop rate of the sigils, so presumably any difficulties people have been having will be resolved.

For the Bastard Sword, I would have at least expected it to have Shock. That logically follows as an upgrade to the base version, and it would make the sword slightly better than the Nicked Sword in many cases, which I think is justified, given the slightly more difficult manner of acquiring it. As it stands, though, it will still probably attract a small niche of players who want to play a defensive role and want to beef up their fortification. It allows an option to get 50% fortification at a level where only light fortification is generally available.

The rapier looks like a neat item to me that will be attractive to a certain niche of players in this level range. It gives a new option to some characters - namely, the option to actually hit something in melee - while simultaneously boosting a valuable role.

The bracers look really cool and widely appealing to many monks.

The armor looks awesome to me, especially to barbarians who don't want to completely forget about AC, which is still important at this level range.

As far as comments about future developments we don't know about: there is already glaring precedent that features are released and balanced on unrevealed future plans. It would be awfully nice to hear if there is something in the pipeline that makes an item.

Overall, I really like the design of these items. They look to be expanding the options and diversifying the equipment available to niche roles. The game becomes boring when everything is geared toward one or two ways of doing things, and these items help to avoid that pigeon-holing.

[Crazyfruit]

Armor needs a boost... maybe add Maiming to it or some of that Insight bonus to Fortification... otherwise its just Lifeshield +1 Fullplate that a Barb can use

I disagree, lifeshield's pretty useful. If it was a docent instead I'd be wearing it at level 20 on some of my chars.

*hopes the docent is similar*