Viking Skald

[PyLethius]

I've decided to make a bard, modeled after a viking skald, he plays his tunes to inspire in battle but likes to hack with a battle axe and shield. Backup healer and off tank, and can be a tank when needed. Trap skills too!

Light armor to take advantage of evasion. Spent some feats to bring reflex saves up.

Since he has some tanking ability, should I put any skill points into intimidate? I kept the trap skills going, but how much do I really need at the high end? Is 20 enough, so I can pass some points around? With 3 fighter levels, I could have some decent intimidate.

I wanted to get the melee/rogue skills in earlier so I could take advantage of them earlier, and not have to worry about taking those levels later. Once I start taking bard levels, I want to stick with it for simplicity.

Any feedback welcome

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Viking Skald
Level 20 Neutral Good Human Male
(3 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 15 Bard) 
Hit Points: 244
Spell Points: 637 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 15
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    18
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             14                    16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                    10
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         4                    20
Diplomacy             2                     3
Disable Device        6                    22
Haggle                2                     3
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  4                     4
Intimidate            2                     3
Jump                  6                     9
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         4                     5
Open Lock             4                    22
Perform               n/a                  21
Repair                2                     2
Search                6                    22
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  2                     4
Tumble                4                     8
Use Magic Device      6                    23.5

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage


Level 4 (Rogue)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 13 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage


Level 14 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics

[ArloOne]

I would have to say that you will be unhappy with this build in the long run. I would say your trying to be a jack of all trades. Unfortunatly, you might enjoy him for a little while..say until 5th or 6th lvl. But, then the errors of your ways will begin to appear. I won't get into number crunching , feat selection etc etc.

I personally think you should erase the drawing board and try again.

Love me or hate me, just my opinion.


P.S. I like pickles and sunshine.

[ddaedelus]

I believe what you want is the Axesinger build.

It doesn't do traps. It's very difficult (if not impossible) to pull off that kind of jack of all trades without gimping yourself.

Also, taking your second rogue level early really shoots yourself. You'll want to take that level late so that you can backfill skills. I understand the desire for simplicity, but the kind of build you're looking at is not simple.

[PyLethius]

I believe what you want is the Axesinger build.

It doesn't do traps. It's very difficult (if not impossible) to pull off that kind of jack of all trades without gimping yourself.

Also, taking your second rogue level early really shoots yourself. You'll want to take that level late so that you can backfill skills. I understand the desire for simplicity, but the kind of build you're looking at is not simple.

First, thanks to you for responding

I should have stated I wasn't looking for a super-maxxed out template. I have very effective cookie cutter characters, I wanted to create a fun character, not to take him too seriously. A roleplayed viking who drinks, sings, and likes to swing the axe. Of course I don't want him totally useless.

So I get the point about Jack of all trades, and I wasn't initially planning to do traps when I started playing with the fighter/bard idea, but I found I had a huge amount of skill points each level, I didn't really know what to do with. So, I just started plugging them into the rogue skills and found I had some decent numbers there. If 20's are not sufficient for traps and locks, what do you need at the top levels? What else should I do with the points?? How much balance and tumble does one need?

I will look at the AxeSinger more closely. I already have a two weapon fighter, I enjoy the damage, but I wanted to make an axe and shield character.

[gavagai]

Like the other commenters have stated, you're not really making an effective combat build. Do check out the Axesinger. My comments here are just to give you reasons why you might not be happy with your build.

I've decided to make a bard, modeled after a viking skald, he plays his tunes to inspire in battle but likes to hack with a battle axe and shield. Backup healer and off tank, and can be a tank when needed. Trap skills too!

Light armor to take advantage of evasion. Spent some feats to bring reflex saves up.

Light Armor + Low Dex = Low AC
Sword&Shield + no Intimidate + no hate generation = poor DPS, no aggro.
Low AC + Poor DPS, no aggro = not a good tank.

You would actually make a better off-tank if you increased your DPS output. You can also boost Intimidate, but you may have to drop some of the trap skills to fit it in. You can do decent DPS with THF feats or TWF feats. I'd recommend TWF because the Dex will also help with those reflex saves for evasion. (Evasion is worthless if you fail the save.)

Improved Critical is also great for improving DPS.

Now that is 4 feats. I see 4 feats that you can drop.
The Shield Masteries are a waste, IMO: two feats can be better used elsewhere.
Cleave also isn't good, and reduces your DPS even more.
Combat Expertise is not helpful: even with a 16 Dex and light armor, you won't achieve the kind of AC to make CE worthwhile on a STR based build; and with the Displacement spell, you don't really need to.

If you want to stay low Dex Viking type, I would consider dropping the Rogue levels and trying something along the lines of Gunga's Ghetto Blaster. Viking don't pick locks anyways; they pillage and burn

[PyLethius]

Like the other commenters have stated, you're not really making an effective combat build. Do check out the Axesinger. My comments here are just to give you reasons why you might not be happy with your build.



Light Armor + Low Dex = Low AC
Sword&Shield + no Intimidate + no hate generation = poor DPS, no aggro.
Low AC + Poor DPS, no aggro = not a good tank.

You would actually make a better off-tank if you increased your DPS output. You can also boost Intimidate, but you may have to drop some of the trap skills to fit it in. You can do decent DPS with THF feats or TWF feats. I'd recommend TWF because the Dex will also help with those reflex saves for evasion. (Evasion is worthless if you fail the save.)

Improved Critical is also great for improving DPS.

Now that is 4 feats. I see 4 feats that you can drop.
The Shield Masteries are a waste, IMO: two feats can be better used elsewhere.
Cleave also isn't good, and reduces your DPS even more.
Combat Expertise is not helpful: even with a 16 Dex and light armor, you won't achieve the kind of AC to make CE worthwhile on a STR based build; and with the Displacement spell, you don't really need to.

If you want to stay low Dex Viking type, I would consider dropping the Rogue levels and trying something along the lines of Gunga's Ghetto Blaster. Viking don't pick locks anyways; they pillage and burn

Ok, what you kind people have said has penetrated my thick skull! I will go back to the drawing board. I haven't picked a name yet so I have some time still before I create an abomination of a character

[ddaedelus]

First, thanks to you for responding
I should have stated I wasn't looking for a super-maxxed out template. I have very effective cookie cutter characters, I wanted to create a fun character, not to take him too seriously. A roleplayed viking who drinks, sings, and likes to swing the axe. Of course I don't want him totally useless.

So I get the point about Jack of all trades, and I wasn't initially planning to do traps when I started playing with the fighter/bard idea, but I found I had a huge amount of skill points each level, I didn't really know what to do with. So, I just started plugging them into the rogue skills and found I had some decent numbers there. If 20's are not sufficient for traps and locks, what do you need at the top levels? What else should I do with the points?? How much balance and tumble does one need?

Balance, I max out on all my characters regardless of whether it's a class skill or not.
Tumble, I put one point into to unlock, and then never ever use it. YMMV.
Jump is terribly useful. I drop my spare points here.
Haggle can be nice. Because I'm too lazy to create a second bard just for vending items, I keep this maxed.
UMD is a no brainer.
Perform is required.
Concentration is required if you plan on casting in a fight.
You can keep Lockpicking and be fine especially by backfilling from the rogue levels.

The problem with traps is that you also need Search; and, unless you know where they all are, Spot as well -- all cross-class skills. Consequently it's an expensive skill to maintain. Those extra attribute points of INT required to maintain it can be better spent elsewhere, like in your physical stats.

But most importantly, as gavagai said... Vikings don't pick locks.

[PyLethius]

Balance, I max out on all my characters regardless of whether it's a class skill or not.
Tumble, I put one point into to unlock, and then never ever use it. YMMV.
Jump is terribly useful. I drop my spare points here.
Haggle can be nice. Because I'm too lazy to create a second bard just for vending items, I keep this maxed.
UMD is a no brainer.
Perform is required.
Concentration is required if you plan on casting in a fight.
You can keep Lockpicking and be fine especially by backfilling from the rogue levels.

The problem with traps is that you also need Search; and, unless you know where they all are, Spot as well -- all cross-class skills. Consequently it's an expensive skill to maintain. Those extra attribute points of INT required to maintain it can be better spent elsewhere, like in your physical stats.

But most importantly, as gavagai said... Vikings don't pick locks.

Alright, I got rid of rogue and went instead with this - the point about spot escaped me regarding the traps... and you are right, a viking doesn't pick locks, he kicks down doors! YAR!

I took stunning blow, I think I can get some mileage out of that at least at low levels. At higher levels, does it hold up?

I borrowed from the Ghetto Blaster, but I swapped two little axes (TWF too tight on abilities) for one great big one!

I will get tomes at some point and apply them where it will help, but I won't plan with them.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Viking Warbard
Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 2 Barbarian \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 560 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 12
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    21
Dexterity            14                    14
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             14                    16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    25
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         6                    24
Diplomacy             2                     3
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     3
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     2
Intimidate            4                    25
Jump                  6                    25
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         2                     2
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               6                    24
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     0
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  2                     5
Tumble                6                     6
Use Magic Device      6                    23

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Barbarian)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I

[unbongwah]

Before you give up on your rogue / bard, check out this build. Somewhat different design goals than yours, but still good DPS + trapmonkey + buffs. Basically, though, don't make this a tanking build, make it a DPS build.

[PyLethius]

I liked this last one, so I rolled him up - Scathag Wulfskald of Sarlona, raging singing drinking viking

Thanks for the help