So I have trying to help a guildie understand that khopeshes are better dps than bastard swords. Am I correct and if so someone please provide me with an answer why.. Too busy with homework to figure out my own formulas.
So I have trying to help a guildie understand that khopeshes are better dps than bastard swords. Am I correct and if so someone please provide me with an answer why.. Too busy with homework to figure out my own formulas.
Morfane - Cealest - Naphor - Sofu - Nairs - Morphaine
Nerdrage
You don't need a formula. All you need is a working computer and a little common sense.
Khopesh
Khopesh (one-handed)
Equips to: Main Hand, Off Hand
Exotic Weapon Proficiency
Base Damage Rating: 5.40
Damage: (1-8) 1d8 + 0 Slash
Critical Roll: (10%/3-24) 19 - 20 / x3
Attack Mod: Strength (+3)
Damage Mod: Strength (+3)Bastard Sword
Bastard Sword (one-handed)
Equips to: Main Hand, Off Hand
Exotic Weapon Proficiency
Base Damage Rating: 6.05
Damage: (1-10) 1d10 + 0 Slash
Critical Roll: (10%/2-20) 19 - 20 / x2
Attack Mod: Strength (+2)
Damage Mod: Strength (+2)
Yes thank you I understand the difference between X3 and X2 crits.
....
Anyways, what I should have put in the original post is the comparison between gs khopheses and gs bastard swords:
Green steel khopeshes deal between 1 and 10 base damage per strike (1d10)
Green steel bastard swords deal between 2 and 16 base damage per strike (2d8)
Now my actual question (apologies for the poorly phrased original post) is which has higher average (versus all mobs in game) dps taking into account the fortificaton of enemies and the high base damage of a gs bastard sword.
Morfane - Cealest - Naphor - Sofu - Nairs - Morphaine
Nerdrage
edited for delayed respone.
Here is a layman's description which will undoubtedly irk some of the computational experts here.
Kopesh has the same probability of scoring a crit than a bastard sword. (19-20) But when it crits, it triples damage rather than doubles it, as all other swords do.
So out of every 20 attacks with a Bastard sword, you get 2 crits for double damage -- essentially, its like getting 22 hits.
Out of every 20 attacks with kopesh, you get 2 crits for triple damage: that's like getting 24 hits.
Now the Kopesh's d8 is, on average, 1 damage less than the Bastard sword's d10. So in general, the Bastard Sword user is scoring 22 more damage than the Kopesh user from base damage over the course of those 20 hits. But is getting the equivalent of 2 fewer attacks.
So in general, when your bonuses to each attack are pretty small, the bastard sword wins out due to the base damage differential. But when each hit starts doing 70-80 damage per hit, the 22 extra damage from the bastard sword pales next to the possible extra 140-160 damage from crits.
The only other exception is when fighting creatures with high Fortification. (i.e. immune to crits) Then, unless you have a Kopesh with lots of burst effects, the Bastard Sword should do a little more than a Kopesh.
Last edited by gavagai; 03-15-2010 at 08:19 PM.
I once did a DPS calculation.. hold on.. let me see if I can recall the jist of it.
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=101
There we go, man thats some old data, that was orginally a comparison of Unarmed VS DA/Khop/BstrSwd. Anyway, if you look at Dwarven Axe and Bastard swords you will see they actually have a DPS advantage over Khopeshs. As a TWF your friend would be better served going with Dwarven Axe's or Bastard swords.
While number of attacks have changed in the recent mods, the "base" damage that these weapons do has not.
Or, how about I just make a "new" calc comparing just the two weapons in question.
Here is a Comparison between just a BLANK GS Bastard Sword and a BLANK GS Khopesh on a toon with 36 STR
The lesson, if you want "Big Numbers Crits" go with Khopeshs.. if you want to do the most possible DPS and dont care about the epeen "I just crit for 200 damage!" then use bastard swords.
Last edited by Xionanx; 03-15-2010 at 08:40 PM.
I appreciate all of the given information and will pass it on to my guildies.
Cheers!
Morfane - Cealest - Naphor - Sofu - Nairs - Morphaine
Nerdrage
Ask your guildy if 2>3.
If he says no, tell him khopeshes are better for that reason. If he says yes, send his parent a letter telling them he needs a math tutor.
Star Firefall
20 Rogue Assasin
Currently on life 42 of 42 (Final Life!)
The math isn't too bad.
For Green Steel Kopesh vs Green Steel Bastard sword:
If damage mod (damage added that is multiplied with crit) is greater than 31 then the Kopesh is better.
With improved Crit then the Kopesh is better when the damage add is greater than 15.
As anyone using green steel weapons will likely be using improved crit and will for sure have damage mods greater than 15 the Kopesh is better (against critable foes).
I agree that the Khopesh is a better statically. Statically! Someone mentioned 'averages' Now your 'thinking!' Look at the combat window sometime!
I've seen this play out many times before... Now you should go and do a cost benifit analysis between the bswords and khopeshes at the AH. Unless your guildie has a hoard of them somewhere... Probably better off going with DAxes, or BSwords... I've seen at least 10 people try to go to with khopeshes, but end up giving up because they can not afford the prices to get good ones, nor do they pull any good ones. Sadly my wife will probably be another one that discovers this out. I have one guildie, one out of at least 10, and hes been saving khopeshes for 3 years and now he's busted them out!
It all comes down to 'your'/'their' playstyle
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Availability of weapons is certainly a factor in any exotic weapon build. By definition, you are spending a valuable feat on just one weapon type of the many in the game. If you do not have (or do not trust the loot gods to provide) a particular weapon of the type you want, don't bother with the exotic weapon proficiency initially. You can always respect for it later when you do have the weapons. Just use the best scimitar or even longsword that you come across until you have the weapons you want (or the opportunity to raid craft them). Until you get improved crit and tons of stacking damage modifiers, the difference isn't all that meaningful.