DarkFall Online... *Sigh*

[Shassa]

that's what ddo needs? more wood working? maybe a leather punch? basket weaving ftw!

sigh.... any "modern mmo" containing a mechanic of that nature is a game that needs to be deleted from my pc....

See, I understand that crafting isn't for everyone. But saying you'd delete a game over an optional gaming element like crafting is kind of silly.

As an EQ2 newb, anyone can go out and spend a little time and sew themselves some backpacks to hold stuff, or make some cheapie armor and weapons for themselves. Or craft themselves some furniture to go in their *ahem* apartment/house. It's very rewarding (to me and to many others, I assure you) to make and use your own creations.

Plus, why would this not fit? Hello, D&D, Crafting skills.

[kurand]

Sounds like a sheiss griefer game.

Oh look I killed this guy,now I am going to camp him all day til he gives up trying to get his gear and loot back then take his loot and sell it to vendors.

I R PVP I R KILL GUY 15 LEVELS BELOW ME I R GUD!

[chester99]

See, I understand that crafting isn't for everyone. But saying you'd delete a game over an optional gaming element like crafting is kind of silly.

As an EQ2 newb, anyone can go out and spend a little time and sew themselves some backpacks to hold stuff, or make some cheapie armor and weapons for themselves. Or craft themselves some furniture to go in their *ahem* apartment/house. It's very rewarding (to me and to many others, I assure you) to make and use your own creations.

Plus, why would this not fit? Hello, D&D, Crafting skills.

well, I can tell you exactly how it went when I played a game of that nature in Age of Conan. I spent one saturday afternoon running around a map "mining" silver so the guild could, I don't know, put another wing on the hospital we were building. I forget exactly what we were fund raising for, but that's not really the point. the point is, there I was, mining pick in hand, hacking away on some rocks.... "for fun".

the bells went off in my head.

canceled the account and deleted the game. never looked back...

[Diarden]

I played Darkfall on release. This was my impression...

They were limiting the amount of copies sold (online sales only) and being it's created by a European company, the servers were based there. They were limiting sales to only 10k players, with over 400k wanting to buy (registered on the forums). This created HUGE lag on their websites, crashing constantly so purchasing accounts was desperate.

Thus it became a business purchasing accounts and ebaying them. Fresh accounts with 0 characters created were being sold for $500 easily on account selling sites. Half my guild couldn't even get in, so they gave up. Great job Aventurine...

Next, gameplay. Yes, Darkfall was fantastically fun, and they have a LOT of great features... but great features cant captivate for long. Here was a typical day for me...

Farm resources for 5 hours. Mining away using a macro, or harvesting tree's with a macro. Once I had my resources together, I would go into town using the universal banks for safekeeping to craft. I would try and be as subtle as possible and only take a certain amount of mats with me to prevent being pked by guilds. Once I crafted a full suit of expensive armor, I would be ready to go out with my buddies. We would mount up and begin riding around looking for good spots to either farm more resources, or look for enemies. Should we encounter enemies, chances are they would be speed hacking and 3 of them would decimate a full group. I would lose the 5 hours of resource intense grinding in a matter of minutes.


This was the norm. I quit Darkfall because they did not handle the exploiters swiftly enough. In the beginning, the devs had left in all the GM commands, so someone with the right program could hack in and use the GM commands at will. There were speed hackers, teleport programs, gold creating programs... you name it, it could be done.


Hindsight is 20/20. Looking back, its no wonder it took Aventurine 10 years to make the game.

[gavagai]

the bells went off in my head.

canceled the account and deleted the game. never looked back...

Amen.

I think DDO is on the right track in that the items for crafting are picked up in the course of questing.

Where the crafting system fails is in either (a) the randomness of what you get, as with DT, and (b) the extreme gap between random and craftable loot. If they had more dynamic, not-too-underpowered and not-too-overpowered crafting options from level 8+, it would be nice.

As for the joy of Darkfall: why not simply play perma-death in DDO? Isn't it your own fault that death was insignificant?

[Astria]

basket weaving ftw!.

Don't bash the craft (basketweaving) skill. Druids need it for all those Bogun they're creating.

[Spoonwelder]

that's what ddo needs? more wood working? maybe a leather punch? basket weaving ftw!

sigh.... any "modern mmo" containing a mechanic of that nature is a game that needs to be deleted from my pc....

Gaming is about playability and replayability.

Grinding wood/ore/fish etc.... is not playability. That is the exact reason I don't play other MMO's - I don't want to chop wood for 2 days so I can make arrows or camp on giant rats for 2 days to make level 3.

Crafting in most other games is almost an end unto itself....and IMO is a waste of frickin time and I am glad that the crafting in DDO is minimal and highly optional to the completion of the game (not gone to cap yet so partially there is hope in that statement but from what I have read it doesn't seem like a requirement).. I get no playability or replayability out of grinding.

From where I sit - crafting in DDO is something for people at Cap to do that allows them to extend the playability (Epic) and enhance the replay of the end content....that's fine for them and keeps a subset of the player base happy enough. And for other players (like me) - I'll get to cap an true res or just start another toon to get a high level of replayability.

The fact that I can get to cap without touching all the content is a big bonus to replayability and from what I have seen from Turbine they get that as they have lately been adding content at all levels.

Props to Turbine so far from me - and as a Brand I will follow Turbine to LOTR one day if I ever get tired of DDO rather than scope out a new brand/MMO.

[Shassa]

Think about the different TASKS you complete in DDO vs. EQ/DAOC/WoW clones. I played each of those games to the level cap and can tell you that there was only ONE task in each of those games: kill monsters. I played an orc rogue in WoW and solo'd from 1 to 60 (or whatever the cap was) doing the exact same thing.

In EQ-clone games, there is no variety in killing mobs over and over. In fact, someone could probably list the actual keystrokes required to level in EQ-clone games...they are that simple.

Hey, thanks for the on-point, non-flaming conversation. It's nice.

Anyway, I don't have any experience with WoW except for what some friends tell me, and I haven't been impressed with it enough to try. To each his own, as always huh? I will choose EQ2 as my example because outside of DDO it has been my favorite MMO by far. I played it for about three years.

Again, please keep in mind that in no way am I "DDO bashing". I am merely trying to outline in specific terms why there is much more to do in EQ2 in all phases of the game than DDO. Whether you like the optional stuff is obviously suited to individual taste, but the optional stuff is there.

First of all, there's not much in the way of camping in EQ2 - Sony learned their lesson. There's no reason to stay in one area at any stage of the game except if you're really hunting for a particular item. In DDO, you always start at Korthos, go to the Harbor, then Marketplace, Houses, then it branches off a little but we know what the popular choices are. EQ2's world is at least fifty times the size of DDO, no exaggeration. There's a lot of different newbie areas, 10-20 areas, 20-30 areas etc etc, and there are a lot of areas for level 75s. By a lot, I mean literally a dozen or more completely different non-overlapping areas. Different quests (yes different objectives too, not all involve kill counts and item harvesting), different scenery, different rewards, different storylines.

When you get tired of levelling, as I mentioned before one can craft. Crafting has its own level. Its kind of neat, because for those who enjoy it, they can actually opt to be displayed as a "level 60 Weaponsmith" for example. You can make some really useful stuff. And the crafting there isn't your typical gather and combine formula, it's a minigame that's quite fun and keeps you involved. Sure it gets same-ol' same-ol' after doing it for the 1000th time, so when you get tired of that...

You can fill up your achievement xp bar which is a seperate bar. EQ2 has explorer points too, but the xp doesn't go to your levelling xp, it goes here. You also fill it up by finishing quest lines and other stuff. As your achievement increases, you can specialize in certain class-given abilities. So basically, if this were DDO while exploring territory and questlines, you would be fleshing out your prestige path. A fun option in EQ2 is to turn xp off for individual mobs, getting xp only from quests (sound familiar? haha). This would be the DDO equivalent of slowing down normal levelling to flesh out your prestige class sooner (thus enjoying the benefits at an earlier level). Again, options.

Everyone is able to rent an apartment/house and fill it up with furniture, trophies etc. They are instances that you access from dozens of different spots from around the world. If you wish, you can let folks inside to have a look around, though they can't manipulate anything (except for stuff you put on sale using display cabinets, people do this to get around Auction House fees). Some of the vets have amazing, amazing houses! They look so nice! It's easy to be creative and different since there's literally a thousand different little different things you can do.

If you get tired of that, go ahead and help out your guild. There's many different ways of earning your guild points, and as it gains more points it raises your guild level and you get more guild features. It's fun to get together as a guild knowing you can increase your guild inventory, increase guild size, and other stuff... plus levelling your guild is kind of neat.

Then for some people there's the whole pvp thing. It's a seperate server and basically they split the races into three(?) different teams.. I don't enjoy it, but it's there for people who like it, and many people will play no other way. Since it's a seperate server it didn't bother me.

So, I didn't want a wall of text, but I just wanted to outline why your broad characterization of other MMOs gameplay is in my opinion off-base. EQ2 isn't perfect, but it had enough variety to keep me in it for about three years. FFXI about three years. DDO, I hope at least a year but I'm not sure at this point.

And again, to be perfectly clear, I'm not saying that DDO needs me or anything, they wouldn't be losing anything more than one customer's future revenue. But for me, there isn't enough different things to do. I dunno, maybe they don't care since they already got about $150 from me, maybe more. I hope they come out with Crafting or some other diversion though, because I like the core game and I'd like to stay.

[Draccus]

Gaming is about playability and replayability.
The fact that I can get to cap without touching all the content is a big bonus to replayability and from what I have seen from Turbine they get that as they have lately been adding content at all levels.

That's a huge benefit. I have capped my rogue TWICE and there are still quests I haven't run. On Sunday, I spent 2 hours figuring out how to complete a quest on elite that half the group had never done. It was a TON of fun because the game play was unique and it took a lot of experimentation.

Later that day, I solo'd another quest I'd never done. I had no idea what I was doing as it required a lot of jumping and some gameplay aspect I'd never seen before.

This is after 2+ years and multiple times capping the same character. Amazing.

[AbeonTech]

Not sure why it was moved to off-topic as it relates to DDO and it's inadequecies.
Is the cancellation of 2 accounts and discussion of features in DDO "off-topic"?

But really, why advertise for another game on this game's site? That's just...well...rude.

No. I'm just informing Turbine as to why two long standing VIP accounts are being moved to another game.
The games associated comparatives I posted, above, are indication of that.

Sounds too much like Shadowbane for my tastes. I'm not a PvPer. Thanks for the mini-review. I'll stay here.
And yeah, except for the inclusion of the mini rant, this really should be in Off Topic, not General

I prefer PVE over PVP too. That's why it shocked me to want to leave the familiar world of D&D so easily.

That game will fail unless there is way to opt out of PvP while walking down the street...

Buy a mount. Don't carry your entire bank. Join a clan. Learn how to defend yourself.

Wow, you really convinced me that Darkfall is a game to avoid at all costs unless you have Zombie mush for brains.

Or for those that like a challenge.
Any DDO vet will know how easy the quests are. Even Elite raids aren't that tough.
Getting mashed up by 3 NPC kobolds then looted by a passing player certainly teaches you to fear death!

What cracks me up about these posts is how people always talk about being tired of DDO's repetition.

It's not that at all. I've simply run out of game.
If you can magic up some more content for me to run... Feel free.

but i doubt the whole "im playing another game unless you get your act together turbine" act is going to work at all.

I don't care. I'm letting Turbine know that 2 subscriptions are being cancelled and why.
If enough people feel the same way and post similar threads, Turbine may EVENTUALLY listen to the people paying their wages.

sigh.... any "modern mmo" containing a mechanic of that nature is a game that needs to be deleted from my pc....

So you deleted DDO when Turbine added "raid crafting"?
Ignoramus.

And again, to be perfectly clear, I'm not saying that DDO needs me or anything, they wouldn't be losing anything more than one customer's future revenue. But for me, there isn't enough different things to do. I dunno, maybe they don't care since they already got about $150 from me, maybe more. I hope they come out with Crafting or some other diversion though, because I like the core game and I'd like to stay.

Dito. x2 accounts.

[AbeonTech]

Well, I'll have an excuse to get back into DDO soon

I was hoping theu would use this opportunity to add a plat / gold sink into the game.
Most of my toons have a silly amount of money and items, but nothing to waste it on....

Well... we can't have it all, I guess

[Borror0]

That game will fail unless there is way to opt out of PvP while walking down the street...

I'm aware that it's a three months old post but I want to comment on that post: an hardcore PvP game like this one can be successful for, for as long as it has a main PvP focus, low maintenance cost, and is designed to appeal to PvP players exclusively. Higher than average subscription fee is probably advisable too.

Basically, it can work if it is designed to appeal to a small niche, is aware of it and does not try to appeal to other types of players.

[Otherworld]

Well, I'll have an excuse to get back into DDO soon

I was hoping theu would use this opportunity to add a plat / gold sink into the game.
Most of my toons have a silly amount of money and items, but nothing to waste it on....

Well... we can't have it all, I guess

Actually, the guild airships are a huge plat sink. A lot of the features (banking, buff shrines,...) are to be hired and not available permanently (yet).

[AbeonTech]

So... To everyone in this thread that said crafting was a stupid idea and now say it's amazing just because Turbine added it.....

HA.

If only I could get them to take a look at my mini-map fix -_-
It will save hours of "I can't find what floor your on"... "Did you go up or down?"

[Captain_Wizbang]

Just another example of cutesie graphics and a poor combat system.

I do like the housing aspect, but I found the average player I ran into (literally) was too much like a crazy kid from WoW on the pvp servers.

- 1 & not signed

[Der_Incubo]

I played Darkfall on release. This was my impression...

They were limiting the amount of copies sold (online sales only) and being it's created by a European company, the servers were based there. They were limiting sales to only 10k players, with over 400k wanting to buy (registered on the forums). This created HUGE lag on their websites, crashing constantly so purchasing accounts was desperate.

Thus it became a business purchasing accounts and ebaying them. Fresh accounts with 0 characters created were being sold for $500 easily on account selling sites. Half my guild couldn't even get in, so they gave up. Great job Aventurine...

Next, gameplay. Yes, Darkfall was fantastically fun, and they have a LOT of great features... but great features cant captivate for long. Here was a typical day for me...

Farm resources for 5 hours. Mining away using a macro, or harvesting tree's with a macro. Once I had my resources together, I would go into town using the universal banks for safekeeping to craft. I would try and be as subtle as possible and only take a certain amount of mats with me to prevent being pked by guilds. Once I crafted a full suit of expensive armor, I would be ready to go out with my buddies. We would mount up and begin riding around looking for good spots to either farm more resources, or look for enemies. Should we encounter enemies, chances are they would be speed hacking and 3 of them would decimate a full group. I would lose the 5 hours of resource intense grinding in a matter of minutes.


This was the norm. I quit Darkfall because they did not handle the exploiters swiftly enough. In the beginning, the devs had left in all the GM commands, so someone with the right program could hack in and use the GM commands at will. There were speed hackers, teleport programs, gold creating programs... you name it, it could be done.


Hindsight is 20/20. Looking back, its no wonder it took Aventurine 10 years to make the game.

I too played at release (buddy of mine was able to get 2 accounts, so i used 1 of them till i was able to get my own) and rather enjoyed it. I was a Rainbow Ninja tho, so after the whole roflstomping of the something awful goons the game started getting boring.

The massively MASSIVE lag didnt help much either. I couldnt even guess at how many mounts i lost to crashes, or how much sweet gear i lost due to freezing when 2000+ zergers came running over the hill..

I dont even wanna get started on the grinding tho.. had to quit playing when i realized in a months time i had only actually worked 4 days, cause the rest of the time i was swimming, jumping, shooting arrows, fishing, mining while waiting for the chance to spend a few hours pvping..

Bout the only thing i miss was the PVP, and the psychopathic guildmates.. Really wish DDO had some actual pvp that involved gear loss, or at least some sort of penalty to make people cry about, not really a point to pvp otherwise.

[krissonofpark]

I still can't give negative rep, oh well.

Was going to give the OP neg rep even before I noticed this was a necro post, so double neg rep then.

[Vordax]

So... To everyone in this thread that said crafting was a stupid idea and now say it's amazing just because Turbine added it.....

I haven't read any posts that say the crafting as implemented is amazing. Pretty much the exact opposite.

Vordax

[AbeonTech]

I still can't give negative rep, oh well.

Was going to give the OP neg rep even before I noticed this was a necro post, so double neg rep then.

Neg rep away tard.