I Finally Understand the Ranger Hate

[Sweyn]

As being my main toon, and pretty much the only toon i play is a ranger, i was getting tired of all the ranger hate. I was fed up with shrouds only looking for Barbs, fighters, and Pallys. What gives?? But now, i think i get it.

Here is a few things i noticed
- An average THF barbarian has more dps than an average twf ranger
- But a maxed out ranger is just as good, if not even better than a thf barbarian
--- so i came to realize, most players are average, and proabably don't have tier III GS. Many people are walking around weilding +3 holy longsword or something. While the +3 holy greataxe might be better off

- A lot of rangers now do nothing but range.
- Where as if you grab a barb, you are sure to get a melee dps
--- I can't tell you how many times i have seen people ranging portals in shroud ect.. i don't need people like that, you are next to worthless.

-A ranger is very easy to be squishy. With raid loot, gs, and tomes.. you can push 600 hp, but most average players don't have that, and are squishy
-A barb is naturaly not squishy
--- In high level raids, a ranger walking around with 300 is not gonna do well, but taking an average barb assures they won't die in 2 hits

- Some rangers are dex based with not so great dps
- I doubt there are any dex based barbs out there
--- If your pary is already weak in dps, you want that last member to be high dps. Taking a ranger has the chance they are a dex build, while leaving it open to fighters/barbs ensures dps. While a str based ranger will have top notch dps, you can't assure every ranger you get will be that way


The combined potential of being Squishy, Low dps dex based, or a straight up bow user may turn party leaders away from the ranger class. And i don't blame them. My main is a Maxed out ranger, and sometimes i am unsure about taking other rangers, while taking a barb assures he'll be dps type.
I would rather have a maxed out STR TWF ranger in my group, than a maxed out Barb, but with the ranger class, you never know until you are in the quest.

So i don't blame all the party leaders out there. For all the good melee rangers, just send a tell to the leader who has the ranger symbol excluded letting them know you are a twf dps type, the leader will probably be more comfortable letting you in

[phalaeo]

I. Love. Rangers.

I always get a little tingly when I'm waiting in a group, hear a ding and look up and see a ranger icon.

Unless it is that guy who insisted on using a bow to kite around the white dragon in Tor forcing everyone to run in circles. Bad ranger! BAD!

[MeasureZero]

I like rangers, even bow rangers. Except for the ones that do negative dps or have no survivability. I think some bow rangers, given a healing arrow, would use it exclusively on things that weren't undead.

[phalaeo]

Well... er....
I didn't mean to make my post sound like a bow vs. non-bow Ranger thing. Let's put it this way- I like a *good* ranger, so long as they get the job done. And Barkskin me.

[Mithran]

With all due respect, if this is what you've concluded, Sweyn, I don't think you really do understand the prevalent distaste for Rangers. I think the old rationale against ranged dps is no longer as valid as it once was, but there are very very few dynamics that are anywhere near as annoying as a ranged combatant running away from the rest of the group with aggro, a train of mobs chasing him/her away from the party.

My own Rangers are certainly lighter than a Barbarian, but they buff themselves, have substantially higher A/C's, and the Barbarians I've grouped with on Epic have a very difficult time in taking aggro away from me.

[Missing_Minds]

--- I can't tell you how many times i have seen people ranging portals in shroud ect.. i don't need people like that, you are next to worthless.

The smart ranged people realize when to line up their shots to actually shoot 2 to 3 portals per attack. Normally these lineup shots happen when manyshot timer is up and you can do it again.

For all your complaints, these players will do more dps than your raging barb on the portals.

[dulgar]

--- I can't tell you how many times i have seen people ranging portals in shroud ect.. i don't need people like that, you are next to worthless.

one itty bitty slayer arrow=500 points of damage on a 20... worthless? add in how many twenties u get with many shot. id say i dont mind a ranger and a bow on portals.

[Sweyn]

The smart ranged people realize when to line up their shots to actually shoot 2 to 3 portals per attack. Normally these lineup shots happen when manyshot timer is up and you can do it again.

For all your complaints, these players will do more dps than your raging barb on the portals.

This is not what i am talking about, i am talking about people standing 5 feet infront of one and ranging... you could have guessed what i meant

[Sweyn]

My own Rangers are certainly lighter than a Barbarian, but they buff themselves, have substantially higher A/C's, and the Barbarians I've grouped with on Epic have a very difficult time in taking aggro away from me.

Thats good for you, although i am not talking about your maxed out ranger, it is about the average one might perform less. Many places a/c is irrelevant, and Gratz on buffing yourself, but 90% of the time there are people to hand out buffs. I might need to be more specific, these are end game raids where most of the toons we want are dps, not selfsufficient toons. I understand rangers can be both, but we're talking about little johnny's ranger with a 20 strenth

[Drekisen]

Too many rangers don't know when to put down the bow and use thier GTWF they get for free. That and the ones that kite are extremely annoying to play with.

A level 20 ranger should easily have 400 hp's at least unbuffed, and tho not super great, barbarians do not have evasion...it's an equalizer in some cases...tho not all.

[dulgar]

Thats good for you, although i am not talking about your maxed out ranger, it is about the average one might perform less. Many places a/c is irrelevant, and Gratz on buffing yourself, but 90% of the time there are people to hand out buffs. I might need to be more specific, these are end game raids where most of the toons we want are dps, not selfsufficient toons. I understand rangers can be both, but we're talking about little johnny's ranger with a 20 strenth

with a slayer arrow, all u have to do is roll a twenty and u do 500 points of damage no matter how high ur strength is or what weapon u are using..... just a thought. and dont all rangers including gimped ones recieve this in their inhancements?

[Sweyn]

one itty bitty slayer arrow=500 points of damage on a 20... worthless? add in how many twenties u get with many shot. id say i dont mind a ranger and a bow on portals.

I'd still rather take a TWF ranger at 50 str, or a barb hitting portals for 100 damage each swing, than your AA with a 5% chance at 500 damage. Sure, with manyshot you can pump out sick damage, but those 20 sec are about what everyone else is doing 100% of the time.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not against the ranger class at all, infact it is my favorite class, and can put out one of the highest dps, this is my opinion on why people are exluding rangers from their lfm's

[Sweyn]

with a slayer arrow, all u have to do is roll a twenty and u do 500 points of damage no matter how high ur strength is or what weapon u are using..... just a thought. and dont all rangers including gimped ones recieve this in their inhancements?

I understand taht, 500 damage in one hit is a lot, but that is only 5% chance. The rate of fire on a bow is so low, that that roll of a 20 will come by so slowly (depending on luck) while the twf CONSTANT and CONSISTANT damage will surpass that occasional 500.. i'm sorry, but AA is not the highest PrE dps of the ranger class

[dulgar]

well thats fine and dandy, but if thats the case lets not take the high ac builds with no dps 100% of the time either..... every class has their strengths. but my response was to ur post that a ranger was WORTHLESS on portals was it not?

[Sweyn]

well thats fine and dandy, but if thats the case lets not take the high ac builds with no dps 100% of the time either..... every class has their strengths. but my response was to ur post that a ranger was WORTHLESS on portals was it not?

Your argument was that even ranged rangers can deal great dps against portals, which is only true 20 seconds of every 2 minutes, for the rest of that 100 sec. i stand by what i said about how you are NEXT to worthless

[dulgar]

Your argument was that even ranged rangers can deal great dps against portals, which is only true 20 seconds of every 2 minutes, for the rest of that 100 sec. i stand by what i said about how you are NEXT to worthless

so now u have gone from saying that rangers ranging portals are worthless to making this post about calling me worthless???? nice OP, real classy. cant take someone elses point of view huh?

[Sweyn]

so now u have gone from saying that rangers ranging portals are worthless to making this post about calling me worthless???? nice OP, real classy. cant take someone elses point of view huh?

It's a figure of speech, by you i meant your side.. your claim.. your argument, not you personally. Although this is the internet, you don't know who is on the other side of the computer.....

I can take other people's point of view, but not when it is over exaggerated

[dulgar]

and yes i realize u were talking about rangers in general even tho u said YOU. but that is my point. u cant change what u say half way through to prove ur own point. ur origional post stated they were WORTHLESS and not needed by you, not that they were NEAR worthless.....

[gavagai]

with a slayer arrow, all u have to do is roll a twenty and u do 500 points of damage no matter how high ur strength is or what weapon u are using..... just a thought. and dont all rangers including gimped ones recieve this in their inhancements?

Only Arcane Archer rangers get Slayer Arrow; so that precludes a Tempest using a bow (not that a Tempest would anyway...)

As for the Slayer damage. 500 every 20 shots is an average of +25 damage per shot. And when Manyshot is down, around 70 shots per minute with capstone and haste? That's 1750 damage per minute contributed by Slayer Arrow.

Now consider if they switch to two portal beaters, and gets around 120 attacks per hand a minute hasted. 1750/240 = +7.291 damage per hit (while otherwise matching bow base damage) would be needed to match the Slayer Arrow damage.

Given identical weapons (Holy x of Construct Banes or whatever) the 160 or so extra weapons effects from TWFing would more than even out the difference. Except during Manyshot, of course, which can be great for DPS.

Now if the ranger only has a bow of Greater Construct Bane and two Handaxes of Pure Good, there's an argument to sticking with the bow.

[Sweyn]

and yes i realize u were talking about rangers in general even tho u said YOU. but that is my point. u cant change what u say half way through to prove ur own point. ur origional post stated they were WORTHLESS and not needed by you, not that they were NEAR worthless.....

wrong.. read my post heh

--- I can't tell you how many times i have seen people ranging portals in shroud ect.. i don't need people like that, you are next to worthless.

You are right by saying they aren't needed by me, because i would really not want any ranged in my group, thats just how i like it. But i did say they are next to worthless. And if you wanna go there, that is much different than saying they are completly worthless