Successfully Implimenting a PvP system

[prowessss]

Step 1: There are several minor adjustments and perhaps even more major additions that could be done to the game that would dramatically increase certain classes viability in combat.
I edited step 1 but didnt even re-read step 2.

Ultimately, due to the uniqueness of each individual player's style and build, it is impossible to balance the game. this does not mean the game is not balanced enough for PvP.



Step 2: Add incentive. I suggest we piggyback DAoC's castle warfare... It goes like this, each servers' dominant guilds purchase or aquire a keep in which they can house a relic. These relics would grant a small boost.. say one relic that gives +1 attack rolls, one that gives +1 AC, one that gives +1 spell DCs, one that gives +1 skills, one that gives +1 saves, etc. I purpose having all the way to +5s, with 17-20 competing for the +5s, 13-16 competing for the +4s, etc... each guild would only be able to have one relic at a time. This would give guilds a some kind of purpose, give pvp some kind of purpose, and it wouldn't offset pve in any big way. Sure these relics would be an advantage but not too significant... Have guilds set their raid time, and have other guilds wait in line to challenge them for their relic, this way the chinese don't steal our relics while we sleep.


I planned on having a 3rd step but it got late really quick. There's dozens of players in the wayward lobster at all hours pvping away... but the brawl pit is no pvp system. We need a system with substance. I dont see it feasable for xp or loot rewards for pvp as this would basically be implimenting grinding.

Anyway i hope my ideas are well recieved and I look forward to seeing you all in game :-D

[Lorien_the_First_One]

The best thing to do for PvP is ignore it totally. Everything you do to help PvP will hurt the game overall, the OPs suggestions are evidence of this.

[Hendrik]

Working on PvP in DDO is on the top of the DEVs "Do Not Do" list.

[Dutch01]

I've covered this 7 ways to Sunday before and at this point I just don't care to explain why again so I'm just going to say NO!

/notsigned

/nevergoingtosign

/willneverthinkaboutsigning

[prowessss]

we already know how people who don't like PvP feel about this subject... Please no more posts from people who don't look for a PvP experience in their games.

[Hendrik]

we already know how people who don't like PvP feel about this subject... Please no more posts from people who don't look for a PvP experience in their games.

If you do us the service of no more posts from people that look for a PvP experience.

Deal?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

we already know how people who don't like PvP feel about this subject... Please no more posts from people who don't look for a PvP experience in their games.

Sorry, forums don't work like that. You make a suggestion, people tell you what they think of it. If they don't, the devs will foolishly think everyone agrees with you. There have been about 1000 of these posts previously, you will see pvp lovers are in the minority and if you bother to search them, there are good reasons PvP would be bad for this game.

[Dandonk]

Please no more posts from people who don't look for a PvP experience in their games.

Keep hoping, but that won't happen.

People here don't like PvP. Deal with it.

Now, personally I never PvP, and I fail to see how it could be made to work without using waaaaay too many dev hours that could be better used to create new quests, races, classes and weapons (I live in eternal hope). But if it could, and it would bring more money in that they've used on developing it, well fine. But really, I doubt that would be the case.

Oh, and on the subject of saveless spells. Get Spell Resistance, and in some cases more HP.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

I don't look for PvP.
However, if it's there, I'll usually give it a try.

Step 1: Fix the saveless spells.
Step 2: I purpose having all the way to +5s

1: Only if it was in PvP that they had a save. Of course, when you have the +5DC item you're proposing, it won't really matter that there's a save on it anyway, a lot of the time.

2: +5 is way, way too high. (Except for the Saves, as there are already +5 saves items. Unless it's supposed to stack.) Unless it only took effect in PvP. Still too high, but at least it wouldn't trivialize the rest of the game. If you're wanting it to take effect in the whole game, you're talking +2 max, and not until level 14+.

You're talking about ideas, and you want something. That's good.
However, you seem to be showing a lack of knowledge on game mechanics with the rewards you want.
Also, I don't really understand how your proposed keep deal works.

[prowessss]

The system i propose will not subtract any significance from the PvE content. Each relic would be server-wide and only one guild would be able to possess each relic... So if there's one +5 relic, a lot of people will have their eyes on it... and the amount of guilds in the game currently, the relics would change hands very frequently until eventually guilds would swell as people would seek the most powerful allies and guilds would be more inclined to increase their numbers. This system would be a step towards creating a more complete world. those who don't want pvp can simply ignore this system and never really be missing out on much but a lot of action.. +5 might be a little extreme... but some way to segregate the level-ranges is desirable. perhaps have 1-10s competing for the +1 relics and 10-20s competing for the +2 relics... The biggest problem i see with this is the server load.. we can't have Korthos Army constantly battling for the +1s...
I have a better idea, make it 10+... 10-15s fighting for the +1s and 15-20s fighting for the +2s? Or perhaps just have +1s and no level restrictions? And just have relic keeps... 4 per server so that 4 guilds per server would be able to seize a relic keep...

Basically my ideas are piggybacked from shadowbane and DAoC... Say my guild got a relic keep and your guild wants it. your guild would sign our challenge sheet and we would pick the time.. then at the scheduled time, your raid starts. If we can keep you from taking our relic for 30 minutes, we keep it. If you can take the relic and make it back to your camps, the relic is yours and if we want it back we have to buy a challenge... Perhaps challenge stones can be a random drop or quest reward? tradable on the auction house... this puts a price tag on a challenge... keepin you from being harrassed by constant challenges... I'm not on the dev team so i can't polish all these details...

Oh yeah and anyone who's ever played pnp knows that most enemies are actually player characters just being manned by the DM... Dungeons and Dragons has always had PvP. In pnp, alignment wasn't limited to chaotic-lawful good-neutral... it had everything from chaotic evil to lawful good... and this system would be way easier to impliment than creating a City of Villains kind of deal...

[Visty]

sure, change the spells

but then melees are only allowed to use plain +5 weapons max

[Bufo_Alvarius]

Otherwise the game is pretty well balanced and ready for a pvp system.

So heavy fort is balanced? So stealth is balanced? 1hit KO spells balanced? I played shadowbane. ALOT. And im telling you, give up on pvp here. Its a sideshow and it always will be. To get the pvp you want here would require a huge combat revamp. GL with that.

[prowessss]

sure, change the spells

but then melees are only allowed to use plain +5 weapons max

lol that's silly. the spells i propose changing are "I win" spells. you can't have a spell that disables a character or monster or anything without a save possibility. Yes spell resistance works but fascinate goes straight thru spell resistance and has almost an infallable save. works as intended. but as is a bard can fascinate a crowd, and even if they've got ridiculous spell resistance, he has plenty of time to keep trying until he hits the spell that ends the fight. Maybe just a timer on power words? like you can still power word stun and power word kill, but only one every 2 minutes? and a much longer cast time on irresistible dance with a unique animation that lets you know to get away from that guy until you're stuck dancing until you die? in order to make pvp viable there has to be a change to these I-win-buttons.
For those of you who don't like pvp, I'm sorry that I do, STOP GIVING ME NEGATIVE REP FOR IT! Gosh!

[prowessss]

So heavy fort is balanced? So stealth is balanced? 1hit KO spells balanced? I played shadowbane. ALOT. And im telling you, give up on pvp here. Its a sideshow and it always will be. To get the pvp you want here would require a huge combat revamp. GL with that.

As a spellcaster... yes. heavy fort, while destroys rogues viability, certainly doesn't help me survive against a good fighter. and 1hit KO spells, with the exception of POWER WORD KILL, all have a save against. that's as balanced as it gets. you fail a save, you die...
I don't want to make PvP a main attraction... I just would prefer it be a more appealing sideshow.

[prowessss]

I'll ammend... Also perhaps just halve sneak attack damage with heavy fortification? 100% chance to halve sneak attack damage... I'm not expecting this to happen quickly but anyone who knows anything about marketing an mmo knows this would broaden the player base. more players more money. more money more content. more content more fun!

There's already a lot of players joining because the banner said "best combat in any mmo" and they're not canceling their subscription to WoW and paying for this game instead because there's nothing fulfilling about the PvP experience currently in game.
I would also like to note that this is the only suggestion up on the front page that would potentially increase revenue.

[toastjeff]

For those of you who don't like pvp, I'm sorry that I do, STOP GIVING ME NEGATIVE REP FOR IT! Gosh!

I'm sorry, but you're posting ideas that are not new, taking a position that is almost universaly disagreed with, on a mechanic that you are vastly overselling the popularity of, all the while thinking your post is different than the dozens that came before it.

What exactly were you expecting?

[krud]

/not signed

The problem with 'fixing' spells to work in PvP is that you bork them for use in quests. They are meant to be "I win" against mobs. Do not take that away just to please some upset melee PvPers. Plus, they took away plenty of caster spells from PvP use already, and you want to 'fix' the rest?

PvP works with whatever you get in game. You just have to put up with the fact that the classes are not balanced against each other. Trying to balance the classes for PvP unbalances them for the rest of the game. Ever wonder why you don't see rogues in PvP?

Incentives. The problem with giving away incentives that have real use in the game is that you always run the risk of people abusing the system. People could run their naked mules/retired toons in PvP just so they can get ganked by friends/guildies who will rack up all the rewards.

[Dutch01]

we already know how people who don't like PvP feel about this subject... Please no more posts from people who don't look for a PvP experience in their games.

Sorry pal you don't get to have your cake and eat it too! You opened it up to the public forum by posing a question on the boards, you can not at that point think that anyone with the ability to do so would not weigh in with their opinion. There are and will be people like me who think no tweaking should be done because it does not belong in this game to begin with.

[Elation]

Really dont like this idea at all specially your guild challanging my guild sort of thing. I dont have time we have to many players from all over the place sure we could pull of a raid full but cant be sure who would be on and people have real lifes in this game. I would hate to hear the guild wars for this **** just not worth it. Instead of having allies and such everyones guild would want this bonus so now you are making enemies great fun yay!!! lol So really dont agree.... Pvp should stay where it is on some other game like DaoC

[Arel]

<snip>
There's already a lot of players joining because the banner said "best combat in any mmo" and they're not canceling their subscription to WoW and paying for this game instead because there's nothing fulfilling about the PvP experience currently in game.
<sinp>

Nebulous statements, for the win... While I don't doubt there are some people that don't stay because the PvP is limited, you're going to have to back up your statement of 'a lot of players' with some numbers. Especially with how much the player base has grown since F2P came out.

Also, 'Software is Hard.' It's not as easy to change/make stuff like this as getting an idea and snapping your fingers. What you're proposing, particularly with this 'relic' thing, would require massive amounts of time and money for development, and at the same time would distract from what the existing player base wants; namely more quests, races, classes, and PrCs. Why turn away most of your players just so you can possibly add a few more?