Successfully Implimenting a PvP system

[My2Cents]

Came from another MMO where PVP was highly developed (or rather they kept trying), no doubt to "cash in" on the "I wanna fightcha" mentality. In my opinion it was a major distraction to the adventuring part of the game.

Unless some unique system of PVP is implemented in some seemless way with current adventuring, I think it would be dangerous and destructive to focus too much on it. I'm not a big "Im gonna fightcha" fan so for my 2 Cents it can be an entirely separate game and it would be fine with me.

There's enough Fight games out there to make the kids and macho happy.

The PVE spirit of DND (the adventuring) was what attracted me in years past, and to DDO now.

Now if only I could get experience for each encounter or at least the quest XP penalty could be cut back for those of us required by life to solo, my life would be complete.

[Newtons_Apple]

I appreciate your stance on the matter but with all due respect I believe you're missing the point of pvp. it is not so much to test yourself against others... because anyone who has ever been in a real fight can tell you anything can happen!! even the best boxer in the world got knocked out. and this game rolls a dice every time you take a swing on someone.

when it comes to group vs group warfare like i'm proposing, it would mostly be balanced groups who know their roles and can organize the best that would usually come out on top.

and the point is to just have fun in a different way than noobing it up in the bar or going on a quest.

Group combat will be balanced or unbalanced based on the makeup of the group. A group of 6 casters against a group of 6 melee would probably wipe the floor with the melee.

But a mixed group of casters, melee and support, equally geared out and with equal ability set against a similar group would win or lose based upon luck, much like the real world example you gave above.

[jomonkey527]

I loved PVP back in the days (bracing myself for negative rep lol) when I played WOW. No however in DDO it would alter the game for the worse, and I have no interest. I would like to see more "world events." but that is best left for another thread.

[krud]

the way i see it, it'd be like... you have a relic right? I put up a challenge on you, you pick a time and a day... the range would be 3-7 days so say i put the challenge up on monday, you wouldn't be able to set the fight for any earlier than thursday and no later than the next monday.

My guild, for instance, is fairly well populated by high level characters during the day. If I see the challenging guild is not regularly populated at 3pm est, I could accpt the challenge at that time. Or will we need a team of negotiators to hammer out the time?

If there are to be PvP rewards, then they should be useful only in PvP.

[prowessss]

It seems to me that DDO EU has been a resounding success in terms of Turbines revenue stream. I don't know about subscription levels compared to WoW, but I doubt you do either.

A company would be foolish to ignore any chance to increase revenue, and it seems Turbine is on track in a general sense to continue their revenue stream.

However PvP has never been a front burner item for Turbine. It is an after thought, and rightfully so. This game does have the best mmo combat system (that I have seen). But you are now suggesting we change some of the fundamental mechanics, at a great cost to developer time, just so you can have more than bragging rights in PvP.

It just doesn't make sense to me. From what I've seen, people are drawn to this game because it is different from the WoW's, etc. of the world. If Turbine makes PvP "successful", the difference between DDO and other MMO's will appear to be smaller, and therefore less appealing.

/not signed

I agree with the vast majority of what you have said but let me address them individually...
#1 no one knows how many people play this game. turbine won't tell us (and frankly it's their business and theirs alone). WoW has given their numbers at something like 60,000,000 currently... by the way i hate WoW. played it til level 60 and then wanted to kill myself lol. I've been playing dungeons and dragons since 2nd edition. There are quite a number of official adventure packs that end up pitting player vs player.

#2 If you didn't notice they've already made small changes to spells in pvp... hypnotize got nerfed, so did resistable dance... actually the majority of low level CC spells got a big ole nerf in pvp. and rightfully so. I'm proposing just taking those little pull backs in the effectiveness of CC in pvp just one step further by nerfing the high level spells as well.. not a huge nerf as these spells will not be unuseful.. they just won't end a fight like they do currently... this is not a fundamental change. Everything i proposed besides the nerfs would be new content. yes a lot of dev time but far less than a full expansion... It's very possible that they are already working on implimenting something like this... as the rumors have been going on since mod2...

The game will still be 100% unique with a pvp system... these kind of features wouldn't drive anyone away. all it would do is expand the game into a more complete form.

I personally think housing should be implimented first but this is still a great pipe dream :-D

[prowessss]

My guild, for instance, is fairly well populated by high level characters during the day. If I see the challenging guild is not regularly populated at 3pm est, I could accpt the challenge at that time. Or will we need a team of negotiators to hammer out the time?

If there are to be PvP rewards, then they should be useful only in PvP.

Defenders always set the time and date. That's my opinion on it... But i can definitely get behind the pvp rewards only useful in pvp... i want this mostly just for incentive for group vs group fights. it's so hard to get something like that together and i think it would be just a lot of fun.

[toastjeff]

Question, OP:

Here we are well into page three of this thread and there has not been one post of support. Does that tell you anything?

[Newtons_Apple]

I agree with the vast majority of what you have said but let me address them individually...
#1 no one knows how many people play this game. turbine won't tell us (and frankly it's their business and theirs alone). WoW has given their numbers at something like 60,000,000 currently... by the way i hate WoW. played it til level 60 and then wanted to kill myself lol. I've been playing dungeons and dragons since 2nd edition. There are quite a number of official adventure packs that end up pitting player vs player.

#2 If you didn't notice they've already made small changes to spells in pvp... hypnotize got nerfed, so did resistable dance... actually the majority of low level CC spells got a big ole nerf in pvp. and rightfully so. I'm proposing just taking those little pull backs in the effectiveness of CC in pvp just one step further by nerfing the high level spells as well.. not a huge nerf as these spells will not be unuseful.. they just won't end a fight like they do currently... this is not a fundamental change. Everything i proposed besides the nerfs would be new content. yes a lot of dev time but far less than a full expansion... It's very possible that they are already working on implimenting something like this... as the rumors have been going on since mod2...

The game will still be 100% unique with a pvp system... these kind of features wouldn't drive anyone away. all it would do is expand the game into a more complete form.

I personally think housing should be implimented first but this is still a great pipe dream :-D

This goes back to the point of coding all these changes. They may be able to change the way the spells work JUST for PvP, but it seems to me the majority of players don't want the devs to work on something they're not going to bother doing anyway.

There are ways to avoid being hit by the "I win" spells BTW. One needs to invest the time and resources to get there, but my barb does have the ability to charge a caster, stun or trip and kill him in the amount of time it takes him to be unstunned/stand up, all the while ignoring most of what he's throwing at me on the way there. Scarabs FTW.

[Astria]

Spell absorption item + trip.

The end.

[Visty]

to vorpal you have to roll a 20 and confirm the critical... lightning strike can be physically dodged. disintegrate does have a save lol... weapon effects are weapon effects... and the mobs hp is balanced with the consideration that the mob is going to stand there and take your blows... a player will not do that. two guys with greensteels going at each other is a pretty balanced fight... as is a caster trying desperately to gun down the melee before he two-shots him is a pretty balanced fight in my opinion too... what is not a balanced fight is the instant cast power words and dance button that end fights unless you have a 20 cleric there to cast spell resistance on you...

see, you dont even know what youre talking about
i was talking about lightning strike and disintegrate on shroud weapons, those dont have saves, those cant be dodged and are insta death to 99.9% of chars they hit

[prowessss]

Question, OP:

Here we are well into page three of this thread and there has not been one post of support. Does that tell you anything?

But here's undisputable proof that what i'm proposing deserves at least some consideration by the dev team::: The wayward lobster has dozens of people in it at peak time blowing each other up and 24/7 you can find people in there fighting. just these people don't have the attention span to post on forums :-P


I'm not saying PvP should take priority... All I'm really working towards is people to not be so blindly opposed to it. come on, people, any addition to the game is good and just because you all are so radically opposed doesn't mean there's not a lot of people supporting it.

[prowessss]

see, you dont even know what youre talking about
i was talking about lightning strike and disintegrate on shroud weapons, those dont have saves, those cant be dodged and are insta death to 99.9% of chars they hit

i didnt know what you're talking about lol. ok well that's a greensteel for you... The most powerful weapons in the game are really really powerful... but you're overstating it. those effects have only a small chance to go off. and a shield negates these effects.
I don't see green steel or any of the other raid gear diminishing pvp.

[toastjeff]

But here's undisputable proof that what i'm proposing deserves at least some consideration by the dev team::: The wayward lobster has dozens of people in it at peak time blowing each other up and 24/7 you can find people in there fighting. just these people don't have the attention span to post on forums :-P


I'm not saying PvP should take priority... All I'm really working towards is people to not be so blindly opposed to it. come on, people, any addition to the game is good and just because you all are so radically opposed doesn't mean there's not a lot of people supporting it.

Yup, that's what I thought you'd get out of it. Can't possibly be that you're wrong about the popularity of PvP.

[Visty]

i didnt know what you're talking about lol. ok well that's a greensteel for you... The most powerful weapons in the game are really really powerful... but you're overstating it. those effects have only a small chance to go off. and a shield negates these effects.
I don't see green steel or any of the other raid gear diminishing pvp.

even if you would leave those in ANd remove the saveless spells, then still casters would whipe your sorry melee ass.
if you come to close to a wizard you eat 3d4 neg lvls and a fod, if you come to close to a cleric you eat lots of unavoidable damage and 2d4 neg lvls and if you come even closer you die in purple lightning

you cant balance ddo for pvp unless creating a whole new game

[Elation]

A shield does not negate the effect of lightning strike nor does it effect guard items which most melee have so for the most part it would be melee verse melee whos guards go off first!!! lol oh magma surge lightning strike crushing wave and they will go off its kinda fun watching new players beat on ya in the pit and then get annihalted by lightning strike or such!!!! Just not thinking its a good time sink since we have been promised alot of other stuff over the years that we are still waiting on and pvp is not on the map for most players and you can track number of players if you really want to but if this turns completly into WOW i am running out the door! Actually turning pvp into a main point of this game may actaully cause me to leave it after four years of not caring about it at all really dont want to start.

[DagazUlf]

To Hades with PvP and the dead horse it rode in on.

[Angelus_dead]

even if you would leave those in ANd remove the saveless spells, then still casters would whipe your sorry melee ass.
if you come to close to a wizard you eat 3d4 neg lvls and a fod

Nobody eats negs in pvp. Fights don't last long enough to use 10 shots of silver flame.

[prowessss]

A shield does not negate the effect of lightning strike nor does it effect guard items which most melee have so for the most part it would be melee verse melee whos guards go off first!!! lol oh magma surge lightning strike crushing wave and they will go off its kinda fun watching new players beat on ya in the pit and then get annihalted by lightning strike or such!!!! Just not thinking its a good time sink since we have been promised alot of other stuff over the years that we are still waiting on and pvp is not on the map for most players and you can track number of players if you really want to but if this turns completly into WOW i am running out the door! Actually turning pvp into a main point of this game may actaully cause me to leave it after four years of not caring about it at all really dont want to start.

i hated wow. it's repackaged EQ. and shields do negate "most weapon effects." i've seen a lot of action in the pit between two green steel holding people... if one holds down block the other doesn't hit with his weapon effects... in fact i just got done getting hit with a greensteel... with my shield up i survived until my stoneskin dropped. if these weapon effects were as effective as you say... that shouldn't be.

And there's no way for this game to ever put pvp in the forefront. that's not what this game's about. but it could be an interesting sideshow! it could be a lot of fun as is. no class has a supreme advantage over anyone else except everything vs rogue... but that's why rogues are basically meant to be multiclassed.

I said this before... I'd rather see housing first... yeah and more quest content... I'd rather see druids in the game before anything else. but this shouldn't be something to be violently opposed.. any content added is more content in game.

[Xaearth]

#2 If you didn't notice they've already made small changes to spells in pvp... hypnotize got nerfed, so did resistable dance... actually the majority of low level CC spells got a big ole nerf in pvp. and rightfully so. I'm proposing just taking those little pull backs in the effectiveness of CC in pvp just one step further by nerfing the high level spells as well.. not a huge nerf as these spells will not be unuseful.. they just won't end a fight like they do currently... this is not a fundamental change. Everything i proposed besides the nerfs would be new content. yes a lot of dev time but far less than a full expansion... It's very possible that they are already working on implimenting something like this... as the rumors have been going on since mod2...


The game will still be 100% unique with a pvp system... these kind of features wouldn't drive anyone away. all it would do is expand the game into a more complete form.

As a long-time competitive pvper, I have to disagree. There's plenty of great games with (kinda) balanced and engaging pvp combat.

I play DDO because it's different. It's a break from that hardcore mindset that so often ends in an argument of which moron screwed up most that last pvp match.

I've seen many good games become, for all intents and purposes, unfun for pve play due to class/skill/spell changes made to balance pvp. And I've seen it happen enough times to safely say, without a doubt, I would 100% cancel my subscription and never look back the day the devs start attempting to balance this game for pvp.

I'm sorry, but I quite honestly have 0 confidence that the devs could successfully pull it off. So the moment they try balancing the game for pvp, I'm not wasting my money on a sinking ship.

[prowessss]

As a long-time competitive pvper, I have to disagree. There's plenty of great games with (kinda) balanced and engaging pvp combat.

I play DDO because it's different. It's a break from that hardcore mindset that so often ends in an argument of which moron screwed up most that last pvp match.

I've seen many good games become, for all intents and purposes, unfun for pve play due to class/skill/spell changes made to balance pvp. And I've seen it happen enough times to safely say, without a doubt, I would 100% cancel my subscription and never look back the day the devs start attempting to balance this game for pvp.

I'm sorry, but I quite honestly have 0 confidence that the devs could successfully pull it off. So the moment they try balancing the game for pvp, I'm not wasting my money on a sinking ship.

well then you should have already canceled because last update contained spell changes for the purposes of balancing pvp...

The changes i'm purposing would affect pve as much as flesh to stone and blindness now having a timer does.