Pls drop the heal yourself rhetoric.

[LunaCee]

Especially since he has that Feb 2010 join date...

Newbs, thinking they know it better than the experts. Or did he just graduate to the n00b class? Doesn't really matter much though.

Got news for you. Against targets with any serious amount of fortification that monk, that paladin, etc. Probably will do better damage than your average pure DPS toon that suddenly had his damage output cut by more than half by losing their criticals.

Oh and that battle cleric? He's self healing, dealing out melee damage, and probably has both a Blade Barrier AND and Implosion running at the same time if they built the character right.

[Eladiun]

Ahhh... It's finally happened it only took 11 pages of nothing for this thread to dissolve into a flame war.

[Zachski]

You know it's not too late for you to learn a thing or 2 about ddo and classes and come back with something witty.This here,it's pretty weak really.

Who said I was trying to be witty? I was going for accuracy, not humor.

In any case, that's all I have to say to you :-)

[Mentor61]

Especially since he has that Feb 2010 join date...

Newbs, thinking they know it better than the experts. Or did he just graduate to the n00b class? Doesn't really matter much though.

Got news for you. Against targets with any serious amount of fortification that monk, that paladin, etc. Probably will do better damage than your average pure DPS toon that suddenly had his damage output cut by more than half by losing their criticals.

Oh and that battle cleric? He's self healing, dealing out melee damage, and probably has both a Blade Barrier AND and Implosion running at the same time if they built the character right.

A noob would be someone that jumps in a thread,without reading any of it and trying to come out of it looking smart but failing.Welcome to DDO.

Show me a monk that has more dps than A barb / ranger or kensai?

There is none.

Show me a battlecleric that has more dps than those 3 classes?

it doesn't exist.So much better off taking a real melee if that's what you need.Those super battleclerics really rock in Epics


And about the fortification bit my newb friend only rogues are really hurt by that.

8000 views and noone sharing your point makes me wonder.

[LunaCee]

Hmm, I seem to have made several posts much earlier in the thread before you ever got to it. So your didn't read is a massive fail. Obviously YOU yourself didn't read it or you'd have seen my name pop up in it.

And before you went off on calling those three classes bottom feeders this *was* a thread about healing and self sufficiency pretty much.

And I said any mob with significant fortification, that hurts more than just the rogues. Or do places like Epic Chamber of Raiyum with undead with 100% fort fail to ring a bell? You don't get criticals there, Paladins can either be HotD and have a chance at disrupting them with every hit or get 4d6 extra per hit on top of whatever their weapon does, then you can toss on the Divine Might, Divine Favor, Zeal, etc.

Monks have Grandmaster Air Stance giving them an insane attack rate, they have pitiful critical ranges, but against undead critical hits don't matter anyways.

Reading Comprehension FTW. I in no way said they had superior DPS in all situations.

[krud]

Funny how many people say clerics/FvS can do so much more than heal, yet when it comes time to fill your pug raid group devoid of a clr/fvs, who will you choose first? the pure cleric/FvS or the clr/1ftr? why?

[Gunga]

Funny how many people say clerics/FvS can do so much more than heal, yet when it comes time to fill your pug raid group devoid of a clr/fvs, who will you choose first? the pure cleric/FvS or the clr/1ftr? why?

To be fair, that's not entirely accurate, but ok.

[Quikster]

Funny how many people say clerics/FvS can do so much more than heal, yet when it comes time to fill your pug raid group devoid of a clr/fvs, who will you choose first? the pure cleric/FvS or the clr/1ftr? why?

The one I know>the guild tag I like>the first one to hit the lfm. usually in that order.

[SaisMatters]

Here CUBE CUBE CUBE!!!
here's a nice fat thread for you to eat!

[Phidius]

The one I know>the guild tag I like>the first one to hit the lfm. usually in that order.

/signed

But usually I just take them both. It's pretty rare for me to have to choose between clerics for the last spot.

Why? It's far more important to me WHO the player is than WHAT they choose to play.

[krud]

The one I know>the guild tag I like>the first one to hit the lfm. usually in that order.

Why? What is it that you need to know about him? If his spell pen and dc's are good enough to implode/destruct mobs? If his dual dwarven axes can dish out enough dps? Whether he'll keep recitation, fom, deathward up? I don't think so. If you needed those things and were not concerned about his healing capabilities you would probably open up your lfm to all classes.

The truth is you want to know if he'll keep the party up when the spit hits the fan. If that cleric you chose as "the first one to hit the lfm" decided to swing away, or do all those other things a cleric does, while people were at 10hp, or told you to BYOH at that point, how long would it take you to put him on your blacklist?

[Zachski]

Why? What is it that you need to know about him? If his spell pen and dc's are good enough to implode/destruct mobs? If his dual dwarven axes can dish out enough dps? Whether he'll keep recitation, fom, deathward up? I don't think so. If you needed those things and were not concerned about his healing capabilities you would probably open up your lfm to all classes.

The truth is you want to know if he'll keep the party up when the spit hits the fan. If that cleric you chose as "the first one to hit the lfm" decided to swing away, or do all those other things a cleric does, while people were at 10hp, or told you to BYOH at that point, how long would it take you to put him on your blacklist?

No offense, but your posts seem to have so many assumptions that you're trying to answer your own questions for the people you're asking.

[krud]

No offense, but your posts seem to have so many assumptions that you're trying to answer your own questions for the people you're asking.

some people need a little help

[Zachski]

some people need a little help

The sheer arrogance of this post amazes me. You've actually out-done the other guy.

[krud]

The sheer arrogance of this post amazes me. You've actually out-done the other guy.

The little winkies is there for a reason. it's supposed to mean the post is not serious.

[Zachski]

The little winkies is there for a reason. it's supposed to mean the post is not serious.

Don't take it for granted that that's what that smiley means. I've seen it used many ways before, including a "amirite?" or "ya know what I mean?" way.

Not to mention that, even not being serious, all context included, it's still kinda bad.

But I apologize for being offensive.

[Tumarek]

I think one problem with this whole Battlecleric discussion is that people are trying to compare things that should not be compared.

Let me elaborate:

-This is not about PVP or soloing, both are really not important at all, except for certain people, and a whole different subject!



-Battle clerics will never out-dps a pure and as well build meele char. They never have been intended to do so. The idea is that instead of spamming your SP for BB and stuff like that you keep it for healing and buffing and do some dps with your hands.

-Battleclerics can heal like 90% of a healing bot using mass heal and 100% of a healing bot if using mass cures. A melee Fvs can heals 100% of any other FvS. Both without gimoing their mele DPS in any way. Any battlecleric who is not able to do this is gimped or not played well.

-So assuming that a Battlecleric does half the dps a pure fighting char does (and they do more then half) a team of a fighter and a battlecleric does 1.5 times the damage of a team consisting of a pure fighter and healer.

all except for certain people and that a whole different subject!

Now the only thing you can through at that is that Blade barrier does more damage. This is partially true:

-For blade barrier to be effective you need to run around and kite the mobs. In this time the pure fighter will do less dps.

-In epic content a battlecleric can cast blade barriers as effectively as a fully speced OC cleric since the only thing that is different is the save. And epic mobs take a dump on your DC's.

I will not say casting clerics are the wrong choice... lots of situation where they are the better. It just is a matter of taste.

Raids:

Any battlecleric who cant take the role of a healer is gimped. I have Maximise, empower or empower healing. In the case of a FVS even the same amout of SP. Quicken is must for any cleric. So where do you see that a battlecleric cant heal?

Are there badly build and played battleclerics out there? sure tons, they are not easy to build. I see by far more badly build rangers out there

[The_Mighty_Cube]

Yar, prepare to be digested, yar.

Yahar.