Pls drop the heal yourself rhetoric.

[MystDragon]

No one is responsible for your survival but you. And you will survive a lot longer is you have a way to heal up during a quest.

That said, there is a general understanding that clerics heal people. Especially during fights. You need to expect this and adapt to it in a way that works for you (and your party).

There is also a general opinon that FVS and to a lesser degree Brds are also healers.
That is not always the case, as they must specifically choose to have cure spells in their available spells.

All classes should strive to be "professional adventurers". Professionals do not need or beg from others. (most of the time). Some can not afford to be prepared for eveything. Some do not know how to be. And raging Barbarians have a special handycap in this area.

Plus the "hero" method is a good tactic, and a way of life in some raids now. It requires a dedicated healer.

prefessional adventures watch red and blue bars. They watch blue map dots. They see when others are in trouble and assist as best they can.
Sometimes that means healing. Sometimes it means trying to get agro off of the guy in trouble. I throw Displacements, and other buffs....as well as wand whip when I think it is needed to save somenone's life.

Preferably a group will act as a team. And players should at least try to play for the team even if there is no organised coordination.

All of this really means that clerics should heal others when they think they need it. With the goal of saving their life and assisting in getting the team ready for the next fight. As well as any other class that has the capability to do so.

This - exactly this.

(Talon, that was very well put. +1)

It does all boil down to teamwork.

[Twerpp]

I believe he is referring to the first 8 levels of the game where clerics can be drained dry by one, really, really bad fight. If lowbie clerics have no mana they better be **** sure they're either smashing heads or wand whipping, and even if it's the groups fault that gives them no reason to pike.

Yeah, well in any given low level group theres few others than can also wand whip. Bards, Rangers, Pally, and arcanes can repair, especially with all the splashes out there. Why should it always be the cleric that pay$ to wand whip a class than can do it themselves? Anyone with a wand can easily get themselves back to full health in seconds by alternating wand/pot/wand/pot in seconds at 8th and below.

If its the groups fault especially they should take some responsibilty and suck down pots to compensate for their lack of skill.

[Therilith]

but if the healers heal and the tanks fight and the other casters crowd control then things are a breeze.

Yup. Healers heal.

[Fenrisulven6]

Why should it always be the cleric that pay$ to wand whip a class than can do it themselves?

Spot on.

Its no surprise that the peeps who don't carry pots and expect to be wand-whipped... don't carry wands to hand over to the cleric.

Its not about the healer's "role", its about expecting someone else to cover the cost of your heals.

[Fenrisulven6]

And I would add thats its the same peeps that play reckless.

And why not? They don't expect to pay for it, they expect you to.

[Stavron]

And speaking of pots. All the tanks out there have found a few nummy pots along the way. It wouldn't hurt to thank your casters at the end of a tough quest with a few. Those things are expensive and would be much appreciated. I gave a few to a wiz who was my hero with hold monster. I smiled the whole quest cause of him.

[Ague]

I'm playing a Cleric 11, and i ALWAYS carry a few CM or CS wands with me for: a.) healing myself, b.) emergencies when a shrine is not close and sp is looking a bit thin... I built my cleric to be a healbot and that's what i do... sure i use CC or BB whenever the situation calls for it, but that's not what i mainly use my dharacter for... I see nothing wrong with carrying and using wands so long as they are not the primary source of healing...

and i have ran with some VERY reckless ppl over time... i tell them straight up that if they want my heals they need to listen to the party leader and stay with the group... if they choose to ignore the leader and so on, then they don't get any heals from me... like someone else said earlier in this thread, I don't heal stupid... and even after a rez or two, if they are still being ********, I just leave their stone and carry on with the mission... it may sound mean, but ppl have to learn somehow...

[hermespan]

you are missing the point of self sufficiency. There is a point in the game, usually around lvls 13-14 where melees start to need help during fights. The healer can toss group heals on the melee group and keep people alive while they're fighting in big fights.

However if the fight's over, and you are at half health, you need to get out your wand and heal yourself. If you don't think of cleric healing as "emergency only" heals, you are doing it completely wrong.

On the flip side of that, if I'm in a fight, and my character is about to go down (1/4 health or less), I am going to turn on sprint and get the hell out of dodge. If the healing cleric (or anyone else) bites it because I do this, well, you brought it on yourself for being an idiot and not helping out.

I'm definitely not causing an xp loss. I will duck out of the fight, run somewhere, heal up fully and come back. That's just how I roll. I'm definitely not going to give anyone shiz for not healing me but don't give me grief because I heal myself either. I have narrowly gotten away with 10-20 hp in the past and had the cleric give me a raft for not standing there and letting the mobs kill me while he hunts for his heal button. Naturally I told him he can go die in a fire.

My pain threshold is 25% HP left. If you aren't dropping heals, I'll run off somewhere and do it myself. I am teh uber track star

[Ague]

On the flip side of that, if I'm in a fight, and my character is about to go down (1/4 health or less), I am going to turn on sprint and get the hell out of dodge. If the healing cleric (or anyone else) bites it because I do this, well, you brought it on yourself for being an idiot and not helping out.

Couldn't have said it better myself...

And believe me, I have the same basic principles for Cleric'ing as you... and you're right about having to jump in there and fight... I usually roll with a guildie who is a melee FvS and we each just heal ourselves, but whenever we roll on a PUG or group up for whatever mission, if the leader isn't giving out instructions and designating who the primary healers are, I just swing and toss out the occasional mass cure's...

[Danmor]

I don't expect the FB to scroll heal himself in VoD. But I do expect the fighter to get his own curses.

Anyways, this horse is dead, time to move on

[kurand]

The Op and others like him do not understand the mechanics of the game enough to even post a statement about healing others.

I deleted my level 6 cleric a couple months ago because in DDO the healing mechanics at lower and mid levels is extrememly challenging.With all the ******bag retards running around trying to solo dungeons and saying "heal me" not just during a fight,but afterward where the most mana is wasted on these people.

The job of a healer is not to keep you at full health 100% of the time,it is to keep you from dying during each and every fight.After the fight it is YOUR responsibility to heal yourself to full wether you use pots or wands or whatever helpful item you have on your person,if the healer feels they have the mana to spare to get you close to 100% health then they have the choice to do that.

Each and every character I play has pots wands candy canes hams self heal clickies anything I can use or get ahold of to heal myself after a fight,I usually play rangers or paladins or cross classes ranger/rogue just for the self sufficiency of the class makeup.

As well as self healing,I would expect every player to have blindness removal pots,curse removal pots,restoration pots and bring along some elemental resistance pots for the dungeon they are running or a mix for just in case purposes.

Again on each character I carry 20 of each of the above mentioned pots and replenish as it gets down to 10 or so.

Self sufficiency is not just about healing yourself,it's about the overall usage and waste of a healers mana when it is YOUR responsibility as well as the healers to conserve the healing mana.

[smatt]

HEAL YOURSELF!

My work here is done, Thank-You for dying

[Fenrisulven6]

ty

[flynnjsw]

A wonderful way to fix the seeming preconceived notion of Clerics as being Heal-Bots only would be to implement Cleric Domains. My cleric not having the Healing Domain means that I can only spontaneously convert to a healing spell, and I am certainly not going to do ti all the time.

Of course I have seen this suggested multiple times, so no need to beat that dead horse.

[Ashiel_Dragmire]

Basically I'm getting a sense that you Clerics and Favored Souls don't like healing because it wastes money.

That's like a Fighter or Barbarian not fighting because it'll cost him money to repair his gear.

Or a Rogue not disabling a trap because his thieves' tools cost money.

Or a Wizard, Bard, or Sorcerer not casting spells because his components cost money.

Starts to sound ridiculous doesn't it?

[Stormanne]

Basically I'm getting a sense that you Clerics and Favored Souls don't like healing because it wastes money.

That's like a Fighter or Barbarian not fighting because it'll cost him money to repair his gear.

Or a Rogue not disabling a trap because his thieves' tools cost money.

Or a Wizard, Bard, or Sorcerer not casting spells because his components cost money.

Starts to sound ridiculous doesn't it?

If a someone is playing a dedicated heal bot cleric, there is not a single other class that is more expensive. At the lower levels, the spell points that a cleric has is not enough to keep a party, that does nothing to help themselves, alive. So the cost for wands falls upon the cleric along with the cost for spell components and item/weapon repair. If you want to have a dedicated cleric to run with you, either roll one up yourself to see what it is like, or be willing to pony up some wands, mana pots, or plat to help out.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Really, if you are going to PUG your cleric, expect to do some healing. Groups are all over the map in terms of skill and experience. Some are ADD kids with the short term memory of a gnat. Some might even be ********. More than a few are drunk and/or high.

Basically, the reason you are expected to do some healing when people are in trouble is that there are healing spells hotkeyed on your hotbar. They are mere millimetres away from your fingertip. The button is right there. Press it.

Having said that, experienced groups are a breeze. Most of the time they don't even need healing. Try and take the good with the bad why don't you?

P.S. If you consider yourself such a good casting Cleric that you don't have to heal, why are you complaining? Obviously you are not as good as you thought you were.

[Mr_Ed7]

"Must be self-efficient"

I have never felt the need to put that in an LFM.

The message it conveys is:

"I can heal myself. I hope you can heal yourself. If you can not heal yourself do not expect me to for I am not a team-player."

[LunaCee]

Oh don't get me wrong... I'll toss the occasional heal on that FB barb who is cruising through the dungeon while I remove casters on ledges and generally contribute in my own way.

My entire issue is with the lower to mid levels and the money hungry fools who expect every boo-boo to be kissed away with divine heals and for the "Hjealer" to blow all their SP/Cash on buffs too because "That is all we are good for". For those that show up in the upper levels we point and laugh and add them to the "list" and wait for that character to either get re-rolled or the mule treatment.

I do NOT heal damage incurred by running through a trap because you were too lazy to wait for the rogue to disable it. If the rogue blows the box and we all have to run through I might spot a heal or two at the far end... but if YOU personally just run through and then expect a heal while the rest of us take no damage because the rogue disabled it... drink your own bloody pots.

I do NOT heal idiots that feel the incessant need to rush ahead and around corners, behind pillars, etc. If I blow 2-3 heals that get the blocked/not in range method costing me SP and giving me a headache of having to spend 3-5 seconds determining whether or not I can actually heal you. Well I'm going to simply ignore you and enjoy saving SP by using it on those that actually get healed when I toss the heal.

I do NOT qualify as your nanny for all your ailments. You get ~2 condition removals tops unless you are the barbarian that can't drink the pot in question while raged and does enough DPS while raged to be worth the hassle. At the upper mid levels if you don't have the immunity item you had BETTER have the "just in case" pots because I really do not like blowing 400+ SP on removing things that could have been removed by yourself many times over for about 5K plat in pots or even cheaper if you can use the wand for it. That could have been 4-8 room clearing BB/Implosion, 10+ Heals, 6-8 Mass Cures.

You are complaining about massive bills? The biggest bills come from reckless play (and dying) lacking critical items like death block against beholders (and dying) using the wrong tool against a target (not my fault you didn't swap to a disposable/specialized weapon to take down the rusty/ooze/cube/insert creature with massive DR capable of chewing up a weapon) having pitifully low saves and eating damage from AoE nukes (usually doesn't come up if you are playing with me. I'm LOOKING for those casters to off them pretty fast) Most of those are avoidable... for the healer when you are expecting us to have ~10 major pots and a stack of 100+ heal scrolls... well if we end up using them we are suddenly losing a LOT of money on that quest. We prefer to avoid using them, and we get rather annoyed if you think it is your RIGHT to have us use those resources on YOU.

tl:dr version:
My SP is not for YOU and by extension my character's pocketbook is not for YOU. If I can tell that you, or another one or two is going to cost me much more headache alive than dead I reserve the right to let you soul stone and reap the benefits of not having to deal with you.

Oh and interesting thread... I'm still ahead by pos rep I've earned in this thread, though I've taken two big hits of neg rep too from people that haven't seen fit to post. Or at least post the why I got neg rep.

[Khimberlhyte]

Basically I'm getting a sense that you Clerics and Favored Souls don't like healing because it wastes money.

That's like a Fighter or Barbarian not fighting because it'll cost him money to repair his gear.

Or a Rogue not disabling a trap because his thieves' tools cost money.

Or a Wizard, Bard, or Sorcerer not casting spells because his components cost money.

Starts to sound ridiculous doesn't it?

You've not played a cleric much, eh? It shows. Lame argument - clerics face all of those same costs as well, having to buy components, pay for repairs, and buy overpriced Devotion items on the auction house every level or two. We also need weapons, armor, and other items, because most of us play solo too.

Healing from the blue bar is free - no component cost even - but it cuts into the stuff I consider fun - using spell points as a divine CASTER, which I can do with parties that don't suck, and who know how to minimize damage. Wands are not free, and from the way you sound, I would bet that you expect a healer nannybot, who reserves their SP bar for you, pops mem pots, and burns up CMW and CSW wands on you. In case the other people in the thread have not made it abundantly clear to you already, that is what hirelings are for.

Generally, I'll use my blue bar with a pug, and that is all. When it's gone, so are the heals, so play smart or expect to wipe. I've only reached level 11 with my cleric, but apart from guildies, I've only been handed a mem potion twice, and wands once or twice in groups. Not coincidentally, I've only used mem potions once (returned them unused the other time), and wands only slightly more often. The only reason I've used wands is because I had some cluttering my backpack from collectable turn-ins, or I was given one by a party member. If I'm running out of SP between shrines, something is wrong with the group, and there is no point in throwing my limited funds away on people like you who rarely appreciate it.