The Metal Machine. 8 bard / 12 kensai.

[Aaxeyu]

Cool name. Check.

Class split: 8 bard / 12 fighter.
Start with a bard level, take 12 fighter levels and finish off with bard levels.

32 pt:
Strenght: 18
Dexterity: 15
Constitution: 16
Intelligence: 8
Wisdom: 6
Charisma: 8

36 pt:
Strenght: 18
Dexterity: 15
Constitution: 16
Intelligence: 8
Wisdom: 8
Charisma: 10

The reason I raise charisma is because it may be nice to not have to wear a cha item to cast haste. With the 36 pt build you only need a +3 tome, but with the 32 pt build you will have to invest some enhancements in it too.

Feats
1. TWF
2 (Fighter). Khopesh
3. Toughness
3 (Fighter). WF: Slashing
5 (Fighter). WS: Slashing
6. Extend
7 (Fighter). PA
9. ITWF
9 (Fighter). Greater WF
11 (Fighter). Quickdraw
12. GTWF
13. (Fighter). Greater WS
15. OTWF (possibly TR feat or IC)
18. Stunning blow

Important enhancements:
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack III

19 APs to spend at will, there is lots of nice enhancements, toughness, stun dc, wand effectiveness etc.

Build layout. Check.

I've been contemplating how to get the most out of a bard lately. I'm not convinced that this build is better than some of the 14/x/x (or similiar) builds out there.
I don't really follow the bard forums, so this build might have been posted 10 times already. I have however never seen one.

There are some fundamental flaws with only having 8 bard levels. First, you can't buff more than 8 players at once with your spells.
You will miss out on inspire greatness, the +2 competence bonus tohit song.
Losing the AC song can make you alot less useful in certain situations.
Adding to that list is a haste that only lasts 1:36.
The build can be ruined by new bard PrEs too. Lets hope they frontload WC like they did with tempest.


It's not all bad though. 8 bard levels gives you +6 damage song, only 2 damage behind the regular warchanter (most are multiclassed), and 3 damage behind a pure warchanter.
And you get 12 fighter levels. The main component of the The Monster.

That's pretty huge for your own DPS. You get basicly:

• 
  9 tohit
  12 damage
  +4 seeker
  8 maxed haste boosts.

A little less damage on the offhand ofcourse, but it's still huge.
This build can reach 46-50 str, so there is lot of potential for stunning blow DC.
The loss of inspire greatness can be offset by items. The devs seem happy to add competence bonus tohit to items these days, and it is not that hard for anyone to wear one, if it ends up boosting the overall party DPS.
By the looks of it, AC is becoming less and less useful. So the AC song might not be such a huge loss in endgame after all...

DPS-wise I think this bardbuild is one of the better to bring to a 6 man party. High tohit and high stun DC makes it really nice in epic too. For 12 man raids it might not be just as optimal, as +2 damage to every melee from a bard with 14 bard levels adds up quickly.

Wall of text. Check.

Let me know what you think. Tear it apart if you so like. Only played a hagglebot, so there might be stuff that I missed.

[MrCow]

There are some fundamental flaws with only having 8 bard levels. First, you can't buff more than 8 players at once (iirc), if songs works the same way as some spells do I forsee alot of annoyance.

As someone who had a 12 Ranger/8 Bard for quite a while I can assure you that the songs will hit everyone in a raid. The only spells that tend to be annoying to use in a raid are Haste, Good Hope, and Rage.

You will miss out on inspire greatness, the +2 competence bonus tohit song.

The amount of folks with a worn competence item for to-hit usually makes this a low issue.

[Aaxeyu]

As someone who had a 12 Ranger/8 Bard for quite a while I can assure you that the songs will hit everyone in a raid. The only spells that tend to be annoying to use in a raid are Haste, Good Hope, and Rage.

Good to know, thanks.

Probably a caster who can haste in most raid anyways.

[Samadhi]

What I think is it is more of a gimped fighter than a bard of any sort. If your goal is primarily to solo, self-hasting etc is probably well worth it. If your goal is primarily to group, though, I see little purpose.

[maddmatt70]

This is not a raid character in my opinion. I like it in six man parties though.

[Bacab]

I would take BRD at first lvl for more SKill points and to open UMD earlier. I think this would be a fun build to play. Have to agree with Matt though.

I think a pure melee-ish would be better or a Pure Bard or Axesinger or w/e. BUT how I also feel that a watered down BRD is better than no BRD at all.

[zealous]

DPS-wise I think this bardbuild is one of the better to bring to a 6 man party. High tohit and high stun DC makes it eally nice in epic too. For 12 man raids it might not be just as optimal, as +2 damage to every melee from a bard with 14 bard levels adds up quickly.

Assuming that all 12 members of the raid are 2wf attacking at an average of 1400 attacks/5minutes, or 56 attacks/s for the entire party.
+2 damage=>+112 dps
+3 damage=>+168 dps

If you have 1 caster and 2 hjeelers not meleeing, you have a bunch of 2hf and that your party isn't composed of unarmed monsters, the total attack rate would be lower, half or lower even.
i.e.
+2 damage=>56dps
+3 damage=>84dps


Your char will bring
+12 damage=> ~25dps(?)
hjeest boost IV=>~15% more attacks(?)=>~60dps(?)
Total:~85dps(?)

I leave it up to you to provide more accurate numbers, higher level bard songs are overrated eh? ;P

[maddmatt70]

Assuming that all 12 members of the raid are 2wf attacking at an average of 1400 attacks/5minutes, or 56 attacks/s for the entire party.
+2 damage=>+112 dps
+3 damage=>+168 dps

If you have 1 caster and 2 hjeelers not meleeing, you have a bunch of 2hf and that your party isn't composed of unarmed monsters, the total attack rate would be lower, half or lower even.
i.e.
+2 damage=>56dps
+3 damage=>84dps


Your char will bring
+12 damage=> ~25dps(?)
hjeest boost IV=>~15% more attacks(?)=>~60dps(?)
Total:~85dps(?)

I leave it up to you to provide more accurate numbers, higher level bard songs are overrated eh? ;P

Interesting, but do not forget the to-hit bonuses the higher level bard songs provide.

[Aaxeyu]

Assuming that all 12 members of the raid are 2wf attacking at an average of 1400 attacks/5minutes, or 56 attacks/s for the entire party.
+2 damage=>+112 dps
+3 damage=>+168 dps

If you have 1 caster and 2 hjeelers not meleeing, you have a bunch of 2hf and that your party isn't composed of unarmed monsters, the total attack rate would be lower, half or lower even.
i.e.
+2 damage=>56dps
+3 damage=>84dps


Your char will bring
+12 damage=> ~25dps(?)
hjeest boost IV=>~15% more attacks(?)=>~60dps(?)
Total:~85dps(?)

I leave it up to you to provide more accurate numbers, higher level bard songs are overrated eh? ;P

12 fighter levels brings around 90 DPS. Almost 40% more DPS and 6 more tohit (the better songs accounted for)
Add 3 damage from PA enhancements (which pure bards can take ofcourse, but that might not be a good idea) and the difference is 110 DPS and 3 tohit.

Ofcourse a pure bard have more potential, but how often do you play with a group filled with TWF fighters/Monsters? :P

As for non-pure bards with 14 - 16 bard levels I think they would outperform this build in raids.
I'm not sure though.

Worth noting is that this build have higher DPS than the average tempest ranger.


Sometimes +9 personal tohit is better than +3 tohit to the whole party.

PS. For once I'm not saying that this build is better than any other. It's a good choice for those who want a more melee focues bard.

[A_Sheep2]

Yeah, definitely interesting to see some of the maths and stuff. 12/8 is a pretty good sweet spot for this. I wonder about this versus a 14/6 bard/tempest. I guess that wouldn't have haste boost.

[RoelHeeswijk]

Hm, seems lik I did my research wrong, I recently redid the same thing.
I did investigate some other options based on the same concept (evasion kensai, a 11 ranger, 1 fighter, 8 bard, etc.), so if you're still toying with the idea have a look: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=263913

[EinarMal]

My sense is that something like Halfling Bard 14/Rogue 4/Fighter 2 would end up being more DPS (for the entire party).

The 2d6 +6(enh.) +8(guile) = 21 extra dps per swing would probably overcome the dps in a raid of this build for the total party.

But it definitely would work, the biggest downside to me is how short the duration would be on displacement/haste.

The other great unknown is higher tiers of warchanter which will probably come out sometime in 2020.

[AltheaSteelrain]

this one is an interesting build. the Kensai Str Buff lasts 1 minute right? If so then this one will it hard.

[dormetheus]

I have a similar build I've been working on since the early days. 12 barb/8 bard. I think these kinds of builds are centered around 6man parties and generally shortmanning.

Always nice to bring a pocket bard on your build, I say.

[geezee]

So you get warchanter at level 18 and haste at level 19. And you're basically a gimped fighter until then.

Sounds like a lot of pain for nothing to me.

Why not just make a real fighter and have a real bard buff you?

[Propane]

I would reconsider the level up order. Getting Warchanter sooner (and extend) will help alot... along with the buffs that come wit it... you can do the blurs, etc and save the other casters mana as well...

I have an AA build similar to this...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ight=acetylene

1 st level bard for skill points... no reason not to max out perform and UMD.

As for raiding, 8 bard is a lot better than no bard - the other 12 levels with a few self buff and you add resonable DPS to the group.

If there is a full bard in the group - go beat stuff up....
If no other bard - play music and then go beat stuff up...

[RoelHeeswijk]

So you get warchanter at level 18 and haste at level 19. And you're basically a gimped fighter until then.

Sounds like a lot of pain for nothing to me.

Why not just make a real fighter and have a real bard buff you?

During leveling, i'm missing 2 fighter levels for 2 bard levels.
What do 2 fighter levels give you? +1 to hit and a feat that you didn't get already. say that feat is weapon specialization (though most aren't that good), so +2 damage.
What does a lvl2 bard song give? oh, +1 to hit and +2 to damage. And also to the rest of the party for free.
(that 8 HP is certainly worth the 90 point worth of cure lights and 20 UMD on lvl9...)

it's just when you're 3, 4 and especially 5 bard levels when it's tough (so I did those while powerleveling shadowcrypt)

[sumnz]

Gah my warforged warchanter just hit 8 bard/6 fighter tonight. Now Im wondering if this would be better than my original vision of 14 bard/6 fighter.