stuck in the mid-level crisis

[Baloran]

Hi, I stumbled across ddo shortly after it went free-2-play and as an old time d&d player I instantly liked the game. I went VIP shortly afterwards. I play roughly an hour almost every weekday between work and dinner. Since I also have to take care of my kids (2 and 4 years old) in this time, I rarely group but solo most content (ususally on normal) with a hireling. Once or twice a week I play 2-3 hours after the kids went to bed, in this time I prefer to play with a PUG, running harder content chain quests.

Its fun and it works well, until I hit lvl 8-10. In this level range, the fun slowly fades for me. I think there are several reasons:

- it takes much more time to level up

- an additional level does not make as much difference (at least on non caster types) as on lower level toons

- there is no interesting/rewarding chain quest in this level region

- less PUG to group with

- soloing new content (lvl 9+ quests) I often die in the quest, because there is a special enemy which requires you to bring some special weapons to hurt him at all (flesh golems...), requiring you to search the forums which weapon to use, hunt down that weapon in the ah, pay a lot of money, carry another weapon set with you which you only need for some foes and in the end you get 2000 xp and a shortsword +3...

This happens twice or three times and I roll a new toon (so much combinations I didnt try yet), go back to the harbour, hit WW, STK, Tangleroot, Deleras, Co6 and I have fun again.

So I'm asking myself: Is it just me, or do other people (especially the new ones) feel the same?

Is it just a boring level range and it gets better, or is the game starting to get serious work at that level (just reading about 60+ shroud runs makes me shiver)?

What are the quest in the level range 8-12 you should run, because they are fun, doable on normal difficulty with normal gear and have some nice rewards (xp/loot)?

Is it worth to take a toon to higher levels, considering I my play style (see start of post)?

Any suggestions/discussion welcome!

[Xeraphim]

LFM. Use it.


Also, Necropolis and House J quests. Levels 8-13 for me are the Undead Quest Series levels.


Another note: Don't wait on a full group. Just do it.

[Trillea]

So I'm asking myself: Is it just me, or do other people (especially the new ones) feel the same?
Many do, leveling in this range is not that fun, especially since they got rid of the XP bonus for doing quests below level.

Is it just a boring level range and it gets better, or is the game starting to get serious work at that level (just reading about 60+ shroud runs makes me shiver)?
It is a fairly boring level range for many. But since you are VIP you have some good choices - see next comment. Level 12 and up is where the game really starts taking off, the Vale quests, and after that the Amrath quests are all fun!

What are the quest in the level range 8-12 you should run, because they are fun, doable on normal difficulty with normal gear and have some nice rewards (xp/loot)?
If you haven't done it yet, do Delera's on elite, Stormcleave N/H/E, Greymoon and Co6 elite, maybe Threnal to get your cape (or Retribution), Shadow Crypt as many times as you can stand, and then move on to the desert.

Is it worth to take a toon to higher levels, considering I my play style (see start of post)?
Absolutely, and some of the loot you get in the higher levels will make outfitting those lower level characters that much easier!

Any suggestions/discussion welcome!

Hope my responses are helpful!

[Baloran]

LFM. Use it.

I sometimes do use the group panel to run a quest I can lead (like WW, STK, Tangleroot). I am hesitant to use it to run a quest I never did before, bc I always assumed that the guy who puts up a LFM should know the quest. So I try to solo a quest on normal and the put up a LFM to do it on hard.

Perhaps I should use LFM and write: "Come do the quest with me, I never did it before..." Wonder if I will get any people in my group...

Hope my responses are helpful!

Yeah, thank you very much. It is nice to know I#m not alone with my impression that this level range is not that fun. Good to know that there is better content coming after that range.

If you haven't done it yet, do Delera's on elite, Stormcleave N/H/E, Greymoon and Co6 elite, maybe Threnal to get your cape (or Retribution), Shadow Crypt as many times as you can stand, and then move on to the desert.

I like Deleras, Greymoon, Co6, Stormcleave. Threnal is where I got stuck soloing, bc I couldn't defeat the flesh golems (on normal). I did one (east or west, the one with the flesh renderers, but the end reward was uninteresting). I never did the shadow crypt (I generally don't like undead quests, just running deleras bc its great xp and great loot).

But I guess I will have to level with the house J and Necropolis undead quest series, if I want to get past level 12...

Any other suggestions?

[Trillea]

I sometimes do use the group panel to run a quest I can lead (like WW, STK, Tangleroot). I am hesitant to use it to run a quest I never did before, bc I always assumed that the guy who puts up a LFM should know the quest. So I try to solo a quest on normal and the put up a LFM to do it on hard.

Perhaps I should use LFM and write: "Come do the quest with me, I never did it before..." Wonder if I will get any people in my group...
You will, usually with helpful vets that will at least show you a couple shortcuts or whatever.




Yeah, thank you very much. It is nice to know I#m not alone with my impression that this level range is not that fun. Good to know that there is better content coming after that range.
Absolutely. I love the Vale quests! Amrath can be tough but fun too!


I like Deleras, Greymoon, Co6, Stormcleave. Threnal is where I got stuck soloing, bc I couldn't defeat the flesh golems (on normal). I did one (east or west, the one with the flesh renderers, but the end reward was uninteresting). I never did the shadow crypt (I generally don't like undead quests, just running deleras bc its great xp and great loot).
Do you mean the clay golems? (big brown and ugly?) They can be a pain because of their DR - your weapon has to be both blunt AND adamantine. That anti-healing curse can stink too...

But I guess I will have to level with the house J and Necropolis undead quest series, if I want to get past level 12...
If you are already 12, the desert will be your best bet for leveling quickly, but Gianthold will also give good XP and get you Reaver ready for some good loot. Unless you have a really good build tho and some decent loot, soloing GH won't be easy however.

Any other suggestions?

See above!!

[Baloran]

Do you mean the clay golems? (big brown and ugly?) They can be a pain because of their DR - your weapon has to be both blunt AND adamantine. That anti-healing curse can stink too...

Yeah, I mean the clay golems. using a dex-based TWF build (rouge/bard/fighter) I only could get a few points through the DR, and since I got cursed, I couldn't heal myself and therefore I couldn't get them down before I ran out of hitpoints ...

I then looked up the forums and noticed I need adamantine and blunt. That when my frustration started, I mean should I really have a special weapon for every enemy? Like chaotic and piercing for an other type of enemy? And do I have to memorize every enemy in the game, carry a special weapon for every enemy in the game (or two, since TWF) and keep on switching weapons on the fly in every fight?

I mean on normal, it should be possible to do on-level quests with standart on-level equipment. Or like deleras, you should get a weapon which can work in the quest (like the club of the holy flame for the ghostly sceletons).

Just if you think of delera: I carry blunt/holy, slashing/holy and ghost touch. But one holy wepaon is enough to get through the quest on normal, since the DR is not that high.

And its not only the Therenal quest, I recently PUGed in a lvl 11 quest, where you had to fight Marut. No melee in the group could do serious damage to this thing.

So how is it in later levels?

[Danmor]

I usually carry around some kind of metalline blunt weapon for those cases. Pretty useful against skellies as well.
If you can get a blunt metalline of pure good weapon you're set for most stuff.

I am aware that those are rare, but you should be able to pick up some cheap metalline weapons at a broker. These can be used against a variety of mobs that have some kind of metal DR.
In my experience you can bypass nearly every DR just by carrying two sets of metalline of pg weapons (blunt/slashing or blunt/piercing)

edit: marut you need anarchic weapons iirc.
I usually google monster DR DDO and get a page that lists mobs and their DR.
forum thread
ddo wiki page

[Trillea]

Yeah, I mean the clay golems. using a dex-based TWF build (rouge/bard/fighter) I only could get a few points through the DR, and since I got cursed, I couldn't heal myself and therefore I couldn't get them down before I ran out of hitpoints ...

I then looked up the forums and noticed I need adamantine and blunt. That when my frustration started, I mean should I really have a special weapon for every enemy? Like chaotic and piercing for an other type of enemy? And do I have to memorize every enemy in the game, carry a special weapon for every enemy in the game (or two, since TWF) and keep on switching weapons on the fly in every fight?

I mean on normal, it should be possible to do on-level quests with standart on-level equipment. Or like deleras, you should get a weapon which can work in the quest (like the club of the holy flame for the ghostly sceletons).

Just if you think of delera: I carry blunt/holy, slashing/holy and ghost touch. But one holy wepaon is enough to get through the quest on normal, since the DR is not that high.

And its not only the Therenal quest, I recently PUGed in a lvl 11 quest, where you had to fight Marut. No melee in the group could do serious damage to this thing.

So how is it in later levels?

The problem is various types/amounts of DR is one of the main ways that the Devs keep this game from being too easy. We used to have 1 weapon that passed all types of DR in the game except /- DR. They quickly figured out that this was WAY too powerful, and nerfed the property Transmuting, and we now have Metalline in its wake.

Now I know that this can be frustrating to someone new that doesn't have a lot of money/loot, but there are a few things that you should keep an eye out for in reward lists:

Metalline (preferably bludgeoning) weapon of pure good - beats DR of demons and devils
Holy (burst) of cold iron/cold iron of pure good - beats demon DR
Holy (burst) of silver/silver of pure good - beats devil and vampire DR
Metalline (preferably bludgeoning) weapon of flametouched iron - beats both demon and devil
Holy/pure good bludgeoning weapon - undead skelly beater, Sor'Jek beater
Bludgeoning adamantine weapons - golem beater, but only clay golems HAVE to be bludgeon, so keep an eye out for any adamantine weaps. I believe the named staff in Threnal is adamantine, so you may want to finish that chain with a pug.

Sun Blades (great undead whackers)

[Kriogen]

It alot depends on what kind of build you have.

A more warrior oriented build may have hard times at those levels, but it's much easier if you have some sort of battle mage or battle priest. A caster that can melee.

Yes, you will need 10000 diferent weapons. You will, start collecting. Not a joke. You *need* adamant (blunt), slash, blunt, good aligned, cold iron (with holy/good), silver (with holy/good). Then something for elementals (frost or elem bane is nice), and ...

OK, it's not 10000, but the list is not short. This is where a wiz/sorc/cleric/fvs would/could have an advantage. If you have no proper weapon, you can use some magic. Blade Barrier, Disintegrate, and so on.

[Baloran]

Trillea, Kriogen, very good advice!

But unfortunately you are exactly touching the point, why I get the mid-level crisis. I am pretty familiar with the PnP D&D rules. My highest D&D character was a lvl 11 ranger (ranged combat specced, his name was Baloran, which I still use as account name where ever possible). I had a +2 composite longbow and a +1 longsword as my best weapons. There where tough fights, where I couldn't do much, since the DR 10/- usually eats up most of the damage you can do with a bow. The melees were using power attack to the max, to cut through the DR. Nobody did carry more than two or three weapon sets. I mean the rules of the game are interesting enough without all the different weapons/DR. So once you hit the level 9+ range, you need to do scientific research into monster DR and grind for the specific weapons you need. Where is the fun in that?

For any of the lower lvls any +1/+2 weapon (perhaps with + 1d6 elemental damage) will do - much more fun to play in my opinion, because you can concentrate on the abilities of your character.

Perhaps the whole reason behind this is, that for old time players, they only could get to level 10 in the beginning, after taking several characters to level 10, they knew everything there is to know in the game. To make it more interesting, when they introduced higher level content, they had to add more complicated stuff, to keep them interested.

If you are new, it is too much information to memorize, too much quests with too much enemys with too much special information you have to know. So perhaps I should pretend there is a level 10 cap, take all my toons to level 10, until I'm bored of the low level content, then I will assume they just increased the level cap to 14 (which adventure packs where introduced at this time?) and take all the toons to level 14.

Taking one toon to level 20 right from the beginning might be too tough, if you want/need to solo most of the stuff.

[Kriogen]

....
Taking one toon to level 20 right from the beginning might be too tough, if you want/need to solo most of the stuff.

Hmm, sort of yes. Correct.

Old timers did have 4 years to accumulate knowledge and basic items. Some sort of blunt+adamant weapon (even if it's just +2 adamant mace), some sort of metaline of pure good (even +1 club is better then nothing), an fire/acid weapon for trolls, etc. Not perfect stuff, but just something, anything.

I switched from europe to usa. So i started with zero gold and items, but I instinctively 'scanned' for those items. If it was on reward list i took it even if other stuff sounded better, didn't sell if it was in the chest, whenever I loged out i checked pawn shops in market place, house pawn shops. Even checked AH if there was something usefull and cheap (coz Im nonstop broke).

Items, twink is part of this game. Khortos gives you some nice stuff for start, but after that you're on your own. And that just happens at 7-8+ level, YMMV.

No help here really. The only thing you can get is advice. As I said, I check pawn shops, AH (but must be cheap). And I level up "slow". Past 10-12 I stoped hunting for only easy and quick XP, and also started to look for those anti-DR stuff, ff items, UWA items.

It's not a big thing tho, you just slow down a bit and also look for 'stuff'. Not stop, just slow down. It's like GM gives you a quest to slay Red Dragon but you get burned almost to death everytime. So before you go slay that big lizzard, you check where you can find azbestos suit.

[Baloran]

It's not a big thing tho, you just slow down a bit and also look for 'stuff'. Not stop, just slow down. It's like GM gives you a quest to slay Red Dragon but you get burned almost to death everytime. So before you go slay that big lizzard, you check where you can find azbestos suit.

Well I guess there is my problem - having not too much time to play, I prefer to get into the action and do quests instead of browsing the ah or the pawn shops.

But I will try to get a blunt adamantine weapon and then its payback time!

[aristarchus1000]

I think to some extent, you have to accept that DDO is more "epic." or maybe even monty-haul. You know, when you kill that vampire in a level 9 quest, you are doing something in PnP which is big event. You are also killing a monster, which in lore terms, probably killed most of the adventurers that came before it. The quests are hard. Preparation is absolutely necessary. In game terms, you are perusing the library, asking around, making sure you have everything you need before you put your life on the line and face that epic (for the level) named big bad guy.

Weapon swapping and having the "right tool for the job" is a big part of this game, whether it is the right weapon, the right scroll, the right potion. Even if you play a caster you need to know what the monster is immune to and what they are vulnerable to. Weapon swapping is the meleer's equivalent.

I think you are partly handicapped by your choice of characters. It is possible to create and big weapon barbarian that has so much damage per hit that DR is (relatively) a trivial matter. You created a finesse dex character. That also means you need "finesse" and know what you are doing if you are going to compete with the big dumb strong barbarian. Role play.

Most of all, have fun!

[MeliCat]

dear OP I know *exactly* what you mean. Those levels first time through are just a grind and all the vets would laugh at my gear even though I was doing the best I could. And I hate shopping so shopping for "fun" in this *game* is so not fun... And all my friends were levels above me and the guild I was in was dead. Just bleh.

PUGs are great... seriously get into them. And that first Tempest Spine mini raid is just chaotic mad fun! You gotta do it!

I found it helped a lot that I pushed through with one character and *only* played that character until I got to like level 16, created my first greensteel (a greataxe) and braved my first Shroud, and then FINALLY got to level 20. (took 1 month but I had time around Christmas). So about 16 you are seeing what the end of game might start to look like and I think it gets much much easier and there are more options and pugs and things to do. And then I used my level 20 to fund my lower level toons. From about 16 onwards XP was secondary to everything else but I leveled anyway as so much is happening around there (crafting goodness, flagging, etc...)

My barb still needs a LOT of item twinking but he has passed down his lower level items to the younger ones. (Oh and if you haven't got it from the Delera's chain yet, get a Carnifex.... seriously just do it... it SO rocks).

But yeah, if you prefer soloing, don't like pugs much and don't have a lot of time... that's going to be a long slog. Bear with it though... it gets better. Really it does


(and hey, if you're on Khyber I will happily donate stuff )

[Doganpc]

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461...-addicted.html

Congratulations on realizing you have responsibilities outside of DDO
I say, run the 1 - 9 gamut with all the various character combinations available to you. Keep a revolving door of characters you enjoyed. Find out you enjoyed the supreme versatility of the Cleric to that Favored Soul you tried a while back, replace him with a new toon. Overly frustrated with something, drop it and try again?

I'm in the same boat, I can continue to grind my mid-level characters or I can play other characters. I get more entertainment, return on my investment, and appreciation for the multitude of classes.

Dogan
Enjoy not Frustrate

[PurdueDave]

Perhaps I should use LFM and write: "Come do the quest with me, I never did it before..." Wonder if I will get any people in my group...

You might be surprised. I guarantee there are a lot of new players in the same boat.

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

I like to use the message: "Never done it.. should be fun!" in the LFM. I never hesitate to lead a group into a quest I don't know.

[Baloran]

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461...-addicted.html

Congratulations on realizing you have responsibilities outside of DDO

OMG I just read the article you quoted. Made me think a lot.

Thank you for linking the article.

Everybody playing this game (or any other MMORPG) should read the article...

I think you are partly handicapped by your choice of characters. It is possible to create and big weapon barbarian that has so much damage per hit that DR is (relatively) a trivial matter. You created a finesse dex character. That also means you need "finesse" and know what you are doing if you are going to compete with the big dumb strong barbarian. Role play.

It was the first elaborate multiclass build I made based on my experiences in the level range 1-9. She (Vicci) did really well in these levels. Unfortunately I dind'n know what to expect in higher levels, because I've never been there. I just put her away and I'm currently leveling a wf barb (only lvl 5 up to now). Perhaps I will get to a higher level with him, experience new content, get some equipment to pass to my other toons.