Acrobatic Bard

[kelabb]

Here's my other experiment... the Acrobatic Bard.

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Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(13 Rogue \ 7 Bard) 
Hit Points: 252
Spell Points: 282 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 16
Will: 8

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             15                 19                   20
Dexterity            14                 14                   17
Constitution         14                 15                   16
Intelligence         14                 14                   14
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma             14                 14                   14

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               2                  3                    9
Bluff                 2                  2                    2
Concentration         2                  3                    3
Diplomacy             2                  2                    2
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                  2                    2
Heal                 -1                 -1                   -1
Hide                  2                  3                    3
Intimidate            2                  2                    2
Jump                  2                  5                    9
Listen               -1                 -1                   -1
Move Silently         2                  3                    3
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                  2                    2
Search                2                  2                    2
Spot                 -1                 -1                   -1
Swim                  2                  5                    5
Tumble                n/a               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a               n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
Spell (1): Focusing Chant
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Balance II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I


Level 10 (Bard)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Cat's Grace
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I


Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (2): Heroism
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 13 (Bard)
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Heightening I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting II


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Heightening II


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: CON
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III

What do you think, suggest etc?

[CSFurious]

bards need to be taken to at least level 14 or higher to maximize their songs

this build will be a bastard stepchild at end game if it ever makes it

do not reinvent the wheel, there are many here who have had years of experience with builds, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

[Anderei]

I'd rather go with the other build about the WF/Wizard/rogue.

I don't know an acrobat that is not dex based? And two handed fighting instead of TWF? If you go with the bard, I'd go for spellsinger instead of warchanter, as your songs wont be much of use eitherway, and 100sp are 100sp.

[Kriogen]

What other said.

Bard7 doesnt give much. Problem is that bards song becomes better with more levels. You do get Song, but it's kinda weak and Haste/Displace spell.

You can get Haste from Wiz 5. Only 5. Wizard also has greater synergy with Rogue because both need some Int. You don't really need Cha on a Rogue. Also as you would not need Cha, you could lower it and boost Dex so you can go TWF.

Rog13/Bard7 will function. It's not a useless gimp. It's just that if you replace Bard with Wizard you get better results.

If you 'reverse' your build and go Bard primary with Rogue splash, lets say Bard15/Fighter2/Rogue3 or 16/6/6 or 18/2 (or something in this direction), you get even better results.

Blue-bar classes(bard, wiz, sorc, cleric, fvs) are not good for splash, they are better as primary/main. Like Bard16/rog2/fighter2 or Wiz18/rog2. So lots of caster levels with some warrior-class splash.

Again, your Rogue13/Bard7 will do something, it's nice, ok-ish, sort of fun. It's just that, done it and it was so-so. Just "so-so".

[zealous]

2wf has more synergy with sneak attack than 2hf.

On the subject of songs not being up to par, how does the increase in song you get from more bard levels compare to the sneak attack you get for the rogue levels?
SA:7*3.5+12=>Damage contribution of 2*36.5*(1-fortification)*%sneak attacks
Haste boost IV: 20-30ish

Song:
Level 8:+1
Level 12:+1
Level 14:+1
Level 20:+1
=>Damage contribution of 4*#melee*average attacks + 4*#melee*average attacks*average crit proportion*(1-fortification)

Taking the example where the rogue bard is partied with 5 khopesh wielders against 0% fort
SA:73
Song:4*6*2+4*6*2*8/20=67.2

Taking the example where you have 1 caster, 2 clerics not meleeing and rogue bard + 4 dual wielders and 4 non-twitch 2h against an average 50% fort:
SA:36.5
HBIV:20ish
Song:4*9*1.56+4*9*1.56*~3.5/20=65.99


It'd fly.

It's not a high end build perhaps and has the malus of a unusual class split making people think it's worse than it is, not that bad though, especially for regular quests

[kelabb]

2wf has more synergy with sneak attack than 2hf.

Why?

How?

To be honest I didn't understand most of your post, but I did appreciate that you've provided input, even though I don't understand it.

To be honest, I don't go in for calculations etc as that just reduces the game to a math problem and removes all the fun.

[Trillea]

2wf has more synergy with sneak attack than 2hf.

I'll explain this one, the rest is up to you, Zealous..

With 2 weapon fighting you get your 7d6 sneak attack with each swing with each weapon, which adds up to almost (but not quite) twice as much damage per attack chain, as long as you do not have aggro.

[zealous]

To be honest I didn't understand most of your post, but I did appreciate that you've provided input, even though I don't understand it.

To be honest, I don't go in for calculations etc as that just reduces the game to a math problem and removes all the fun.

The short version would be that 13 rogue levels adds as much or more dps to the party as the songs of more bard levels does.

If you care about end game raiding, the 13 rogue levels adds more or less as much dps as the songs of more bard levels.


Just because bards song is liek awsum sauce, doesn't mean that you can't replace it with something more or less as good.

Full bard songs in a party with 5 melees will be the equivalent of a melee dishing out ~60 damage/attack. If the bard doesn't melee himself nor "aid" the party in some other way, a high end melee in place of the bard would be more optimal. However, said 5 melees might care more about seeing bigger numbers on their screen rather than the party being optimal.