FIRE WALL: Remove it.

[villainsimple]

This spell, and spells like it...but mostly this spell, have become a crutch for the developers.

When Sorcs and frequently wizards are less a DPS class and more a "Spam Firewall here!" class, something has gone horribly wrong.

Don't believe me? Go play a Sorc from level 1 to level 20 without ever picking up firewall or a similar spell. See how frequently you get attacked, ridiculed, thrown out of groups, or simply thought of as stupid. I can think of no other spell with the possible exception of haste, and often not even then" that will result in the "You don't have firewall?" lecture.

And the worse of it is Devs have fed into this playstyle. Because it serves as a bandaid. It lets the devs call Sorcs and frequently wizards a DPS class while allowing them to gloss over the fact that it's not so much DPS as it is a "Spam Firewall here!" class.


And that's just sloppy and poor game design.

[villainsimple]

Just add a fear component so mobs don't run through it.

That may be a reasonable suggestion as well... but the developers don't want to do that. If mobs did start running out of firewalls... which seems perfectly sane to me.. Arcane DPS would virtually evaporate.

[KingOfCheese]

Wall of fire does dominate through the mid levels--but I find it has much more limited use at end game. Its great for some epic desert content--but nearly useless against the Amarath content--and far too slow a killer for other end-game content. I think it is like a lot of other aspects of other classes--dominant at certain levels or dominant in certain quests--but balanced in the big picture. When I think through the higher level raids (Shroud, VOD, Hound, ToD, Abbot, Titan, DQ, Von), it rarely gets uses (a little use in DQ--I don't cast it at all in the others).

[Robi3.0]

I can think of no other spell with the possible exception of haste, and often not even then" that will result in the "You don't have firewall?" lecture.

On this point you are right. My sorc never carried around GH for the longest time and you know what I never once got lectured for not having firewall because of it.

Also

You don't think Wiz and Sorc are suppose to be a DPS classes?

[Hendrik]

Ahh Villain.....


Back at it again I see.

Didn't make enough friends last time you started doing this?

Anyways, this should go to Suggestions so it can be promptly ignored.

[grodon9999]

That may be a reasonable suggestion as well... but the developers don't want to do that. If mobs did start running out of firewalls... which seems perfectly sane to me.. Arcane DPS would virtually evaporate.

It evaporates already when you hit Amrath .

The existence of firewall/Blade Barrier and kamikazi AI are rationales for the insane hit points that mobs have. If they had some self-preservation instincts they wouldn't need hundreds/thousands of hit points. The current setup leads to a lot of "ring around the rosie" tactics which are quite frankly ********.

If FW/BB had a fear component something else would need to be changed to compensate which will bring you further and further down the rabbit-hole of madness. it's probably best to just accept this silliness as it stands.

[villainsimple]

Wall of fire does dominate through the mid levels--but I find it has much more limited use at end game. Its great for some epic desert content--but nearly useless against the Amarath content--and far too slow a killer for other end-game content. I think it is like a lot of other aspects of other classes--dominant at certain levels or dominant in certain quests--but balanced in the big picture. When I think through the higher level raids (Shroud, VOD, Hound, ToD, Abbot, Titan, DQ, Von), it rarely gets uses (a little use in DQ--I don't cast it at all in the others).

Cherry picking specific content where Firewall isn't used... while ignoring all the rest of the content in the game where it is used is disingenuous.

[Missing_Minds]

I have only one thing to say...he's baaaccck...

BTW, you'd have to remove "Wall of Fire".

[Gunga]

shr plz

[SilentPinoy]

If you are a Warforged simply state you are a Force spec

No really, at higher level play Wall o' Fire is not as frequented (unless set up for ambush) but even then half the time mobs and players don't even stand at their locations. More sensibly I've seen casters blasting away with scorching ray, finger of death, and leaving melee/rangers to clean house.

That and WoF draws more agro then it should... I'm guessing you are at the 7-11 level where it's the most incredible thing ever. (I mean have you ever just watched fire burn? It's so pretty). And I doubt any wiz/sorc who finds the need to spam more than 1 WoF per room and not kite around it(concentrating on not getting hit rather than trying to "nuke" everything)

Granted it does drain SP, where a properly damaging nuke spec sorc or high save/spell pen wiz will do the same job more effectively/quicker, with no fuss.

WoF isn't bad, the society you don't accept is just indifferent to your opinion.

[villainsimple]

On this point you are right. My sorc never carried around GH for the longest time and you know what I never once got lectured for not having firewall because of it.

Also

You don't think Wiz and Sorc are suppose to be a DPS classes?

I do want DPS to be a viable option for Sorcs/Wizards... however... Sorcs and Wizards lean so heavily on Firewall for a reason. I mean I hate to turn to PnP and all, but if the DM required the caster to just sit around spamming Firewall all day, and almost every quest he'd be considered a **** poor DM, and rightfully so.

[Hendrik]

I have only one thing to say...he's baaaccck...

BTW, you'd have to remove "Wall of Fire".

Just like a comedic gift that keeps on giving.

[KingOfCheese]

Cherry picking specific content where Firewall isn't used... while ignoring all the rest of the content in the game where it is used is disingenuous.

I disagree. This isn't cherry picking. This is the content that many (most?) players focus on at end game. Casters are my mains. I rarely use wall of fire (except Epic desert content).

[villainsimple]

If you are a Warforged simply state you are a Force spec

No really, at higher level play Wall o' Fire is not as frequented (unless set up for ambush) but even then half the time mobs and players don't even stand at their locations. More sensibly I've seen casters blasting away with scorching ray, finger of death, and leaving melee/rangers to clean house.

That and WoF draws more agro then it should... I'm guessing you are at the 7-11 level where it's the most incredible thing ever. (I mean have you ever just watched fire burn? It's so pretty). And I doubt any wiz/sorc who finds the need to spam more than 1 WoF per room and not kite around it(concentrating on not getting hit rather than trying to "nuke" everything)

WoF isn't bad, the society you don't accept just is indifferent to you opinion.

Comparatively speaking, how useful is... Delayed Blast Fireball?

[villainsimple]

I disagree. This isn't cherry picking. This is the content that many (most?) players focus on at end game. Casters are my mains. I rarely use wall of fire (except Epic desert content).

Because the entire game is end game, right? I mean it's not like the Devs are intentionally trying to get you to constantly replay through the exact same content you just spent 20 levels playing through... oh... wait. Nevermind.

[KingOfCheese]

Comparatively speaking, how useful is... Delayed Blast Firewall?

I use DBF much more than Wall of Fire at end game. DBF is much better dps for things that need quick killing. DBF is a great damage spell against the Abbot.

[villainsimple]

I use DBF much more than Wall of Fire at end game. DBF is much better dps for things that need quick killing. DBF is a great damage spell against the Abbot.

See, there it is again. You're pickin ONE GUY. You need to consider the entire rest of the game too.

[KingOfCheese]

Because the entire game is end game, right?

For a lot of the player base the answer to this is yes.

[Tyrande]

So what are you suggesting, OP?

Devs are working on the Savants PrE and possibly the Energy Substitution feat.

Your extended maximized empowered firewall today may turn into a lightning wall some day and end game devils will not be immune.

Firewall may be good but not always useful:

DQ at 20%: immune because of mantle (immune to 4th level spells and below)
Red Dragon: immune
Titan: construct (heal with fire)
Devils: immune (Shroud and ToD)
Abbott: immune because of constant mantle (see DQ)

Stuff that it only works on now at 20th are:
Epic content at Desert (except chains of flame) or VONS (except Red Dragon)
Stormreaver
Sorjek Incanni (SOS)
Monsters that are not immune to fire.

[KingOfCheese]

See, there it is again. You're pickin ONE GUY. You need to consider the entire rest of the game too.

I think you may have misread my post. While I did pick one guy (and probably the most important one in terms of getting killer raid gear for casters--but I digress), the main point was that I use DBF more the Wall of Fire, in general.