Enter the Kobold

[Jerevon]

The end boss fight doesn't seem very balanced in comparison to the other two flagging quests, Monstary and Prey. The damage the "Living" elementals do is a bit much.

Yeah, I guess I'm calling for a nerf of the end fight for Enter the Kobold.

[Impatiens]

Having a caster with Ooze Puppet trivializes it and having people with evasion helps a lot. If you don't have at least one of those two things, yes, Enter the Kobold is pretty horrid.

[Quikster]

The end boss fight doesn't seem very balanced in comparison to the other two flagging quests, Monstary and Prey. The damage the "Living" elementals do is a bit much.

Yeah, I guess I'm calling for a nerf of the end fight for Enter the Kobold.

Id like to see a beefing up of the other two end fights

[TechNoFear]

One issue is that the red named Kobold has a very short 'leash'.
If he tries to cross the lava of the final room he will respawn to full health.

The second issue is that you are sealed into the last room with no exit and have no retreat should things go bad (or one party member has to wait on the switch during the quests conclusion which seems less than an ideal design).

If the Kobold aggros on someone outside the main chamber (clerics, casters) he will probably respawn to full health.

So it is best to fight him well away from the entrance which means you will probably end up fighting in the lava.
As he jumps around alot, he tends then to jump into spots he can't be hit (ie he perches up a wall).

This tends to make the quest much harder than intended and almost impossible without prior knowledge of the quest mechanics.

Even on casual (lvl 16) it is difficult for small parties of capped characters.

[Enochroot]

The end boss fight doesn't seem very balanced in comparison to the other two flagging quests, Monstary and Prey. The damage the "Living" elementals do is a bit much.

Yeah, I guess I'm calling for a nerf of the end fight for Enter the Kobold.

People like you made this game dumb.

Having a caster with Ooze Puppet trivializes it and having people with evasion helps a lot. If you don't have at least one of those two things, yes, Enter the Kobold is pretty horrid.

Not true at all. Learn to play instead of complaining. A cleric with no evasion can demolish the adds in there. FvS, even easier.

Id like to see a beefing up of the other two end fights

Definitely, keep fighting the good fight.


Trolling from retirement!

[Impatiens]

Not true at all. Learn to play instead of complaining. A cleric with no evasion can demolish the adds in there. FvS, even easier.

Wow, way to be unnecessarily rude. I wasn't complaining, but in my experience groups that have a caster with ooze puppet or multiple people with evasion have a much easier time in there. Note I didn't say that the fight should be nerfed, but it is hard with some less than ideal groups. The meteor swarms respawn as long as the kobold is alive, so it doesn't really matter if you can demolish them, they will keep coming back. They do a ton of bludgeon damage, it can end very poorly if not done right.

I know how to play, and even if I didn't, that doesn't mean you have to be rude about it.

[Enochroot]

Wow, way to be unnecessarily rude. I wasn't complaining, but in my experience groups that have a caster with ooze puppet or multiple people with evasion have a much easier time in there. Note I didn't say that the fight should be nerfed, but it is hard with some less than ideal groups.

I know how to play, and even if I didn't, that doesn't mean you have to be rude about it.

Heh? Your entire response supported the OP - that without two things it is HORRID - ie. should be nerfed. How about you don't implicitly agree with stupid opinions that will further nerf the game if you don't want backlash?


Being unnecessarily rude is how we got TR, what works, I shall continue to do.

[Impatiens]

Heh? Your entire response supported the OP - that without two things it is HORRID - ie. should be nerfed. How about you don't implicitly agree with stupid opinions that will further nerf the game if you don't want backlash?

Telling him things that can make the fight trivial is not implicitly agree with his opinion. I don't agree that the fight should be nerfed, but there is no question that it is harder than Monastery and Prey.

[Enochroot]

Telling him things that can make the fight trivial is not implicitly agree with his opinion. I don't agree that the fight should be nerfed, but there is no question that it is harder than Monastery and Prey.

Many other threads' calling for nerf of this have argued that because you have to have one of two things, where ooze puppet is considered so rare and evasion "shouldn't be required" - they have used this as a basis to nerf the AOE damage in that room. Your post implies agreement, as it isn't even horrid without those things, you just have to come up with strats if you're non-evasion, as you can't just stand around getting pummeled.


Let's see ... if i can't stand around ... maybe ... run around? Hmmmm ...


It definitely is harder than monastery or prey - but as Quik said, those should only be made more difficult.

[kamimitsu]

My only problem with Kobold (well Meteor Swarm, particularly) is that nothing in D&D (or DDO) should have no method to counter it explicitly in the rule set. The bludgeon damage of meteor swarm has no save. Plenty of people argue that 'if you have skill you can move out of the way', but that doesn't hold water as it only trivializes DEX scores and reflex saves, and serves to make build choices have less weight (just roll up a huge STR/HP barbarian, and twitch your way through the game!) Even if it was a valid argument, it also doesn't apply very well to players from distant locations (lengthy latency times makes 'moving out of the way' next to impossible). Don't get me wrong, I like the active combat in DDO, but I don't want it to override saves and or base stats.

Everything should have a counter. All spells/effects should have a save (or an touch AC check). All doors/chests/traps, etc. should have a DC. These values can be crazy high, but they should be there. It's that way in pencil and paper (and the few spells that don't have saves have lengthy text to help the DM adjudicate the application of the spell). It doesn't ruin the game to make a 'no save' effect or an un-pickable door, but it does knock me out of 'this is D&D' mode.

[Enochroot]

My only problem with Kobold (well Meteor Swarm, particularly) is that nothing in D&D (or DDO) should have no method to counter it explicitly in the rule set. The bludgeon damage of meteor swarm has no save. Plenty of people argue that 'if you have skill you can move out of the way', but that doesn't hold water as it only trivializes DEX scores and reflex saves, and serves to make build choices have less weight (just roll up a huge STR/HP barbarian, and twitch your way through the game!) Even if it was a valid argument, it also doesn't apply very well to players from distant locations (lengthy latency times makes 'moving out of the way' next to impossible). Don't get me wrong, I like the active combat in DDO, but I don't want it to override saves and or base stats.

Everything should have a counter. All spells/effects should have a save (or an touch AC check). All doors/chests/traps, etc. should have a DC. These values can be crazy high, but they should be there. It's that way in pencil and paper (and the few spells that don't have saves have lengthy text to help the DM adjudicate the application of the spell). It doesn't ruin the game to make a 'no save' effect or an un-pickable door, but it does knock me out of 'this is D&D' mode.

I do agree everything should have a counter. It's what makes games, games. It doesn't have much to do with Enter the Kobold, as you said. (re: latency, I've played from all over the world the last few years, and very, very rarely from the U.S)


But regarding counters, yes, it's what makes starcraft the best game, ever.

[kamimitsu]

I do agree everything should have a counter. It's what makes games, games. It doesn't have much to do with Enter the Kobold, as you said. (re: latency, I've played from all over the world the last few years, and very, very rarely from the U.S)


But regarding counters, yes, it's what makes starcraft the best game, ever.

Glad you agree, that was also my initial beef with Grazing Hits (though I'm not as adamant now, as DR is 'somewhat' of a counter).

I can't speak for your experience, but I play from Japan and have anywhere from 250 to 400 ms latency. That sometimes makes weird things happen: traps nailing me after I've passed through them, monsters hitting me well out of their threat range, and coming in 2nd on a few 'guild quiz' trivia questions (my screens showed me as 1st poster, but 2nd on others' screens). As such, I can't trust my ability to twitch react to stuff, which is why I love my high AC intimi-Pally. For the most part, I can just stand there and bring stuff to me!

As for tactics, I agree that players should be encouraged to try new tactics (much as you have to do if you have no evasion and/or Ooze puppeteer in Kobold). I just wish that the game development supported that and not just 'kill everything, bypass nothing, follow the path'.

[Krag]

Nerf isn't needed.
Quests that are slightly above ore below average are fine.

What would really help is some additional reward. I can't force myself to run Kobold because Monastery is a lot faster, easier and gives TWICE as many runes.

[Jerevon]

Nerf isn't needed.
Quests that are slightly above ore below average are fine.

What would really help is some additional reward. I can't force myself to run Kobold because Monastery is a lot faster, easier and gives TWICE as many runes.

Regarding running monastary more, that reminded me of when GH came out. Prison of the Planes runs were the place to be because of the easy loot. But later on, the loot tables were nerfed or something to that effect.

[Lerincho]

Id like to see a beefing up of the other two end fights

i'll back this instead of easy buttoning one, push the other two up a notch.

[Visty]

there are so many way to take the oozes out
charm them, kill them, make them helpless...and thats just a few

my gimped ranger (22str, 38dex, 350hp+-) soloed that endroom while in party (so no scaling) just with dual weaking rapiers and dual holyburst rapiers. and that says alot

[Jeromio]

my gimped ranger (22str, 38dex, 350hp+-) soloed that endroom while in party (so no scaling) just with dual weaking rapiers and dual holyburst rapiers. and that says alot

Was that after the stat damage nerf? I don't think it's so easy using this method any longer.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Id like to see a beefing up of the other two end fights

I wish they would change Prey, so that the maze didn't matter.
Then beef up the end fight.

But these quests don't get run enough as it is.....so making them harder is probably not a good idea.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

It is a tough fight. But usually when I get in the right group it suddenly becomes easy.

They key seems to be not getting agro from the spells by some method.
And for those without evasion, not getting agro from the elementals as well.

Ths can be accomplished in several ways. Some easier to pull off than others.

Problem is that most groups have no concept of agro control.

[gott_ist_tot]

Problem is that most groups have no concept of agro control.

Problem is learning these things takes time, and is hard. If you have noone to pass you the knowledge, it takes
long time. I was happy as a pig in the mud, when I discovered myself that living spells are actually oozes
and I can beat them down with Greater Ooze Bane. Or I can drag them to giant skeles to take care of it
(I'm talking Subterrane now).

There's certainly volumes of such knowledge, which is only hinted at by the vets, and not explained.
And lot of complaining that newbs have no clue.

Having said that, I could not hate 'this quest should be nerfed' posts more. Tear of Dhakkan, Kobold, you
name it. The Orphne's 'Prisoner' has already fallen. While at the same time they dropped the requirement
to run it each time you vonna flag (!).