High Saving Throw build

[Frostrelex]

This is a build I am making for the heck of it. I admit I really don't know much about the game, so I am asking your advice in the hopes I could learn from you. I am not trying to make an uber build, just one that can do it's job of DPS adequately on teams while fitting within my concept framework-namely, of a barbarian with unusually high saving throws.

Halfling
Strength 16
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 8
Cha 8
Wis 8

Feats- Two-handed fighting, Improved two-handed fighting, cleave, power attack, Iron Will, Lightning reflexes

enhancements:

Damage Boost 4: 10 AP
Extend Rage 4: 10 AP
Power Rage 4: 10 AP
Extra Rage 3: 6 AP
Power Attack 3: 6 AP
Barbarian Constitution 2: 6 AP
Barbarian Willpower 1: 1 AP
Improved Damage Reduction 2: 6 AP
Sprint Boost 1: 1 AP
Item Defense 1: 1AP
Halfling Will 3: 6 AP
Halfling reflex 2: 3 AP
Halfling Fear 2: 3 AP
Halfling Fort 1: 1AP
Frenzy Beserker 3: 8 AP
Barbarian Might (capstone): 2AP

Again, I would like to point out this is not supposed to be a super build. Just adequate. I don't know much and would appreciate your insight. I was thinking that all levels of toughness are so outright necessary that I would need to drop all of the halfling saving throw powers to fit them in, and, consequently, destroy any reason for the build. I would prefer to not have to do that. Thoughts?

[tihocan]

I think you forgot one feat (listed 6, but you get 7). I guess it must be Improved Crit. Basically you will mostly be missing GTHF, so it remains viable (it's not such a big DPS loss).

[Frostrelex]

I think you forgot one feat (listed 6, but you get 7). I guess it must be Improved Crit. Basically you will mostly be missing GTHF, so it remains viable (it's not such a big DPS loss).

Actually I was thinking of getting keen weapon enchantment instead of improved critical, but the problem with that is I would have less options for buffs on my items. Anyways, thanks for your help! I appreciate your time.

[Goldeneye]

ha ha ha, if this was built it would be one ridiculous gimpy barbarian.
If you want an effective melee toon with high saves, go either Paladin with high CHA, or monk.

On a fighter, you have the extra feats to stock up on saving throw feats, on barbarian you need to make HUGE sacrifices in DPS feats to get saving throw feats.

[Shade]

Dwarf could get the same saves, while also having superior dps/enhancements/all around build.

Due to the fact Dwarven spell resistance is simply superior and and cheaper to get then the halfing saves bonus:
Base:
Halfling +1
Dwarf +2
Enhancements:
Halfling +3 to all = 18 AP
Dwarf +3 to all = 6 AP

The only advantage the halfling would have in saves is non-spells.. Very rarely an issue in this game... Pretty much limited to traps (jump over them) or certain monsters special attacks (dodge/block/evade them)

[Aschbart]

Dwarf could get the same saves, while also having superior dps/enhancements/all around build.

Due to the fact Dwarven spell resistance is simply superior and and cheaper to get then the halfing saves bonus:
Base:
Halfling +1
Dwarf +2
Enhancements:
Halfling +3 to all = 18 AP
Dwarf +3 to all = 6 AP

The only advantage the halfling would have in saves is non-spells.. Very rarely an issue in this game... Pretty much limited to traps (jump over them) or certain monsters special attacks (dodge/block/evade them)

Are you speaking from experience, as from playing high level dwarves in DDO? I am asking because I do not have such experience (yet). But in high level PnP campaigns I found that the majority of saves - and specifically the high DC saves - came from stuff that weren't spells or otherwise magical, e. g. against monster abilities (often tied to their ridiculously high stats), environmental hazards (lava, landslides, earthquakes, storms), and like you said, traps. I am not sure about environmental stuff, but I was under the impression there are plenty of monsters with special abilities as well as plenty of traps in DDO. or am I mistaken?

To the OP: as has been pointed out, the best sources for high DCs are monk builds and builds with at least 2 levels of paladin for the Divine Grace goodness. Both require you to be lawful, so barbarian would not be an option. You did mention high DPS, so what you would be looking for is either a DPS paladin going knight of the chalice (rather focussed on evil outsiders, but still decent against others), or some fighter build with splash of paladin, monk or maybe ranger if you want TWF.

[Xyfiel]

Are you speaking from experience, as from playing high level dwarves in DDO? I am asking because I do not have such experience (yet). But in high level PnP campaigns I found that the majority of saves - and specifically the high DC saves - came from stuff that weren't spells or otherwise magical, e. g. against monster abilities (often tied to their ridiculously high stats), environmental hazards (lava, landslides, earthquakes, storms), and like you said, traps. I am not sure about environmental stuff, but I was under the impression there are plenty of monsters with special abilities as well as plenty of traps in DDO. or am I mistaken?

To the OP: as has been pointed out, the best sources for high DCs are monk builds and builds with at least 2 levels of paladin for the Divine Grace goodness. Both require you to be lawful, so barbarian would not be an option. You did mention high DPS, so what you would be looking for is either a DPS paladin going knight of the chalice (rather focussed on evil outsiders, but still decent against others), or some fighter build with splash of paladin, monk or maybe ranger if you want TWF.

Shade has no experience in dwarfs or high levels or Barbarians, you should ignore everything he says regarding any of those 3 subjects.

Or go read his post history, he is THE high level dwarf barbarian.

[Frostrelex]

ha ha ha, if this was built it would be one ridiculous gimpy barbarian.
If you want an effective melee toon with high saves, go either Paladin with high CHA, or monk.

On a fighter, you have the extra feats to stock up on saving throw feats, on barbarian you need to make HUGE sacrifices in DPS feats to get saving throw feats.

"Huge" sacrifices? Shade's barbarian build lists improved critical and stunning blow/toughness in place of my saving throws. Neither toughness nor stunning blow add to DPS at all-they add to your defense. Improved critical is good-but it does not stack with keen weapon enhancements. Hence, you could get the same just from a keen weapon enhancement. That is not exactly a huge sacrifice. Aside from using saving thows in place of toughness and stunning blow-which is really just trading one form of defense for another-Shade uses the exact same feats as me in his build.

My Response To Shade: according to the DDO wiki, and I quote:

Dwarves:
"◦+2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells. Broken, because it works only against some spells. "

According to the DDO wiki, dwarven saving throws are bugged and only work on some spells. Is that information outdated? Because if it is not, then the halfling saving throws would give more overall defense.

Again, i would like to point out this is not supposed to be an uber character, just a decent one.

[Shade]

"Huge" sacrifices? Shade's barbarian build lists improved critical and stunning blow/toughness in place of my saving throws. Neither toughness nor stunning blow add to DPS at all-they add to your defense. Improved critical is good-but it does not stack with keen weapon enhancements. Hence, you could get the same just from a keen weapon enhancement. That is not exactly a huge sacrifice. Aside from using saving thows in place of toughness and stunning blow-which is really just trading one form of defense for another-Shade uses the exact same feats as me in his build.

Stunning blow doesn't directly increase your DPS.. But once applied to a monster, the monster is then auto-crit, massively boosting your DPS to incredible levels... Levels pretty much nessasary if you wish to run any type of hard endgame content.
Not having improved crit is a massive drop in DPS. Yea SOME weapons have keen, but the very best DPS weapons do not.
Yea your builds not horrible or anything, it's just Barbarians are a very straightforward class without allot of room to customize, or much purpose to do so.. They have a specific purpose, to kill as fast as possible.. There are so many other classes that can fill the other roles better then them.. Especially the one your after - saves.. Paladins can get some pretty insane bonuses over Barbs in the range of +20 or more points.

My Response To Shade: according to the DDO wiki, and I quote:

Dwarves:
"◦+2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells. Broken, because it works only against some spells. "

According to the DDO wiki, dwarven saving throws are bugged and only work on some spells. Is that information outdated? Because if it is not, then the halfling saving throws would give more overall defense.

That note was added in 2006.. So yea it's very outdated so I've removed that from the wiki. At the time there were maybe 2-3 spells out of the hundreds in the game it never worked against, and not commonly faced ones.. But yea that has since been fixed.

And yes I've played the game a bit so my advice comes from real ingame experience and not conjecture based on numbers. I've played a Dwarf Barbarian since beta and his saves have always been very solid.

Actually the one place I always recommend putting points into purely for saves you seemed to have neglected.. Wisdom. I always recommend at least 10, even for Dwarves and Halflings. Putting points into that instead of wasting a feat on Iron will is a much smarter way to go (take them out of dex)

[Frostrelex]

Stunning blow doesn't directly increase your DPS.. But once applied to a monster, the monster is then auto-crit, massively boosting your DPS to incredible levels... Levels pretty much nessasary if you wish to run any type of hard endgame content.
Not having improved crit is a massive drop in DPS. Yea SOME weapons have keen, but the very best DPS weapons do not.
Yea your builds not horrible or anything, it's just Barbarians are a very straightforward class without allot of room to customize, or much purpose to do so.. They have a specific purpose, to kill as fast as possible.. There are so many other classes that can fill the other roles better then them.. Especially the one your after - saves.. Paladins can get some pretty insane bonuses over Barbs in the range of +20 or more points.



That note was added in 2006.. So yea it's very outdated so I've removed that from the wiki. At the time there were maybe 2-3 spells out of the hundreds in the game it never worked against, and not commonly faced ones.. But yea that has since been fixed.

And yes I've played the game a bit so my advice comes from real ingame experience and not conjecture based on numbers. I've played a Dwarf Barbarian since beta and his saves have always been very solid.

Actually the one place I always recommend putting points into purely for saves you seemed to have neglected.. Wisdom. I always recommend at least 10, even for Dwarves and Halflings. Putting points into that instead of wasting a feat on Iron will is a much smarter way to go (take them out of dex)

I see. Thank you very much for your time and advice, I appreciate it. I apologize if I annoyed you, I am a newb and appreciate all well-explained advice I can get.

[tihocan]

True, you can live with Carnifex (keen greataxe) for a bit, and later on craft a Mineral II greataxe (which is keen), and in the meantime a +enough keen silver greataxe of pure good, but it's going to seriously limit your weapon choice, and once you need something better than a Mineral II for future (or current Epic) content, you'll have a problem. So better make room for Improved Crit for a long term plan (and less headache).

[Frostrelex]

True, you can live with Carnifex (keen greataxe) for a bit, and later on craft a Mineral II greataxe (which is keen), and in the meantime a +enough keen silver greataxe of pure good, but it's going to seriously limit your weapon choice, and once you need something better than a Mineral II for future (or current Epic) content, you'll have a problem. So better make room for Improved Crit for a long term plan (and less headache).

Thanks, I have made the necessary room in my build. Like I said above, I appreciate all the well-explained advice I can get.