Ranged bows and xbow suggestions.

[BalanceFx]

Some suggestions in no particular order.

Change Manyshot to a stance: -4 to hit. Toggle on or off like Combat expertise. (This is how it works in pen and paper)

Add a few ranged feats:

• Ranged Pin (Usuable like trip with same cool down):You must succeed on a Ranged Attack and then win an Opposed Grapple Check (size modifier still apply). If successful, you opponent must make a strength check vs. DC 15 to become free. (He can still attack just cant move)
• Zen Archery: You use your wisdom mod instead of dexterity mod when making ranged attacks.
• Crossbow Sniper (Pre-Req weapon focus): +½ Dexterity modifier damage and doubles ranged Sneak Attack range to 60’ (instead of 30’).
• Efficient Pull (Pre-Req bow strength): Treat your strength as 2 higher when using a bow.
• Improved Rapid Shot: You can fire ranged attacks even faster then rapid shot and reload faster then rapid shot when using a ranged weapon.

I think these few simple changes would cause a ridiculous amount of happiness among the ranged crowd and allow for some very interesting builds.

In addition I would consider adding to the deepwood sniper line. I think hail of arrows would be a fun ability but no idea how you would code that although it would look fairly impressive in very rare certain circumstances. (And also generate an incredible amount of much needed aggro every ranged attacker loves.)

[Talon_Moonshadow]

While archers need some help still.....the biggest need is for a change that gives non-archer builds a useful ranged option.

A simple speed increase for all would help both archers and non-archers.

And helping non-archers would be a huge intangible bonus to archers too.

Since people would actually use ranged cambat as a group when it makes sense to do so.



And btw. Rangers are already overpowered.
I love em, but they don't need more help.

[BalanceFx]

A simple speed increase for all would help both archers and non-archers.

Well I agree with you there but I don't think a slight bump in speed alone though would make non-archers... that is regular characters without feats designed for archery... use ranged weapons more. Perhaps some builds would get a bonus out of it... But many would need a feat to see a real bump. Zen archery would make archery more appealing to FVS and Clerics for example then say free Rapid Shot.

And helping non-archers would be a huge intangible bonus to archers too.

Correct but lets say a pure ranger build arcane archer could take an additional feat improved rapid shot. Thats excellent but I am not sure that alone would bump up the dps enough for many. (Isnt there already gear that basically improves rate of fire that can also be combined with capstone?)

Since people would actually use ranged cambat as a group when it makes sense to do so.

If people would actually use it... Watching melees trying to kill bats sometimes is funny. (I have seen some funny fights in the vale rare)

And btw. Rangers are already overpowered.
I love em, but they don't need more help.

There are builds that are powerful. I don't think a bow build is one of em. (Atleast not in an overpowered sense) Changing many shot I think would be the real game changer. The other feats are character splashes... Ranged Pin... Its trip at range on a timer that doesnt actually trip or prevent attacks or spell casting but does stop movement. Useful... But Overpowering? Meh. Many people would use it though as a cheap version of a para bow.

Zen archery... would allow for some interesting bow builds. I doubt a ranger would use dex as a dump stack and go with a wis archer build but maybe there is a good build out there.

Crossbow sniper is a handy splash... but I think the main improvements to anyone walking around with a x-bow is going to come out of the deepwood sniper line. (Whenever that comes to fruition)

Efficient pull: +2 str when calculating damage using a bow... not a game changer... But an interesting splash... the net affect would be meh... but still many people might pick it up.

Interestingly I don't think bow users should do as much damage as melees in terms of actual DPS in the traditional way many people use the term. I mean fighters are running all over the place doing no damage until they finally close to melee range. The whole time they are running to and fro a pure bred archer is typically firing through potentially many targets with improved precise shot doing damage. Situationally an archer may actually be doing more DPS if you were to average it all together. (In certain rare circumstances)

In a similar fashion Wail of the Banshee sounds and instantaneously numerous creatures drop dead... Thats incredible DPS if you were to calculate it that way) Even a firewall ticking away is doing damage to potentially many enemies for great dps. Pale masters the most uber overpowered mages of all, (sarcasm implied), could have a summon and a skeleton mage and some acid clouds, melfs, firewalls going all at the same time and could also have great DPS. (Although I think Wail of the banshee is a better example)

Melees though can do a ton of damage to single target in a reliable and repeatable fashion. Many can get smacked upside the head with a disintegrate, shrug it off and keep hacking away... Each class has its purpose and strengths and weaknesses.

Personally I feel regardless of how uber anyone thinks their build is, the game is about working together. A party of poorly built characters who work very well together will always be more fun then a party of uber builds who are working poorly together. (Or just outright fighting with each other, disparaging other party members or purposely greifing)

One other thing is I find a lot of the feats I suggested more interesting then the "fix the dps". Feats that are useful in certain quests (Ranged Pin) or that would open up varieties of different builds (Zen Archery) are more interesting to me. Ranged combat needs some help but I dont think it needs a complete revamp. (cept maybe crossbows but Deepwood could be very interesting)

[BalanceFx]

Another suggestion... Arcane archers get the ability to create +1 -> +5 arrows. Perhaps allows an arcane archer to spec in an element. (ie +5 Acid arrows, or +3 Sonic Arrows etc)

[Logic]

While archers need some help still.....the biggest need is for a change that gives non-archer builds a useful ranged option.

A simple speed increase for all would help both archers and non-archers.

And helping non-archers would be a huge intangible bonus to archers too.

Since people would actually use ranged cambat as a group when it makes sense to do so.



And btw. Rangers are already overpowered.
I love em, but they don't need more help.

I agree. I think a buff to all ranged combat attck speed would be a good change. Currently either you spec into it or don't use it at all.

I disagree with the original poster. Adding feats will only make ranged combat more impossible to achieve for non fighter/ranger classes (currently it takes like 10 feats to get everything depending on what you are going for). I think they should reduce the number of feats ranged combat requires.

I had a 20 AA ranger. Great fun, but yeah rangers get so much for free they don't need any buffs.