Need a good math person to figure something out for me.

[Taimasan]

Ok I have a dillemia that I need figuring out because I kinda suck at doing math stuff, so was wondering if someone could help me out. Ok first off my strength is 20, I have The Holy Burst Ring(2d6 and +3d6 on a crit) and the Shocking Burst ring(1d6 + 1d10 on a crit).

My question is what is going to be better on normal difficulty against pit fiends?? My devout handwarps?? +2 Metalline(+15 damage a hit) 15 of Pure Good(1d6 a hit). Or my +5 Anarchic(2d6) of Evil Outsider Bane(2d6) -15 damage a hit??

EDIT: Forgot to mention my fists are 2d12.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Ok I have a dillemia that I need figuring out because I kinda suck at doing math stuff, so was wondering if someone could help me out. Ok first off my strength is 20, I have The Holy Burst Ring(2d6 and +3d6 on a crit) and the Shocking Burst ring(1d6 + 1d10 on a crit).

My question is what is going to be better on normal difficulty against pit fiends?? My devout handwarps?? +2 Metalline(+15 damage a hit) 15 of Pure Good(1d6 a hit). Or my +5 Anarchic(2d6) of Evil Outsider Bane(2d6) -15 damage a hit??

+15 for overcoming DR
+3.5 for pg
=18.5

vs.

+5 higher enhancement/bane
+7 anarchic
+7 bane
=19

Pretty much a wash.

[DrakmireTS]

Should be your bane wraps on normal, devouts on higher.

Devout: Fist + Str + Mod + Good = 2d10 + 5 + 2 + 3.5 =~21.5 + shock + holy (which is the same for either wrap)

+5 Anarchic of Bane: Fist + Str + Physical Mods - 15(floor to 0) + Anarchic + Bane
= 2d10 + 5 + 5 + 2 - 15 + 4d6 = 8 + 14 =~ 22 on average

Rings are the same between the two. Assuming your could confirm on a 1, the banes are better on normal (technically) but the devout much more on hard/elite. If you got some greater bane wraps with a lower numerical prefix, that'd be a bit better...but again, only for normal.

Edit: Sorry, factored in greater bane rather than bane. Corrected now.

2nd Edit: Kadish is right, forgot the PG.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Should be your bane wraps on normal, devouts on higher.

Devout: Fist + Str + Mod + Good = 2d10 + 5 + 2 =~18 + shock + holy (which is the same for either wrap)

+5 Anarchic of Bane: Fist + Str + Physical Mods - 15(floor to 0) + Anarchic + Bane
= 2d10 + 5 + 5 + 2 - 15 + 4d6 = 8 + 14 =~ 22 on average

Rings are the same between the two. Assuming your could confirm on a 1, the banes are better on normal, but the devout are better on hard/elite or against DR higher than 19

Edit: Sorry, factored in greater bane rather than bane. Corrected now.

You forgot to add the 3.5 PG on the devout. So it's 21.5 vs 22.

[Taimasan]

So im a little confused. one person says its pretty much the same, other says banes is better, are the 2d12 for my fists factored in?

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

So im a little confused. one person says its pretty much the same, other says banes is better, are the 2d12 for my fists factored in?

The bane is better, just only slightly... half a point of damage per swing. The 2d12 for your fists, your strength, the holy ring, and the shock ring are irrelevant since they apply equally to both.

[DrakmireTS]

If you got greater banes, the difference would be a little more noticeable. For instance

+5 Anarchic of E.O.B vs +3 Anarchic of G.E.O.B.

EOB: 22/swing on average
GEOB: 11 + 5 + 3 + 4 - 15 + 4d6 = 8 + 5d6 =~25.5/swing so a gain of 4 dmg on average (over devouts), which may not seem like a whole lot, but consider that a windstance 4 monk swings at something around 128 swings/minute, factor out 1s for ~121 attacks and that 4 damage turns into 484, which is more than something to sneeze at.

(Swing speed source: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=201535)

Of course, the holy grail of handwraps to find for devils and demons would be metalline of GEOB, but good luck with that.

[Taimasan]

So for my Anarchic of EOB im looking at a increase of about 60 damage a min?

[DrakmireTS]

Something around there yeah.

[hydra_ex]

On normal, his DR is 15, and fort is 25% iirc, so...

Devout:
Base: 5 STR +8 Songs +5 PA +13 Fists +2 Enhc = 33
Attributes: 7 Holy +3.5 PG +3.5 Shock = 14
Crit Attributes: 10.5 Holy Burst +5.5 Shocking Burst = 16

Avg Dmg (19-20 Crit)
Normal Damage: 33 Base +14 Attributes = 47. Weighted 17/20 = 85% = 39.95
Critical Damage (Resisted): 33 Base +14 Attributes +16 Crit Attributes = 63. Weighted 2/20*0.25 = 2.5% = 1.575
Critical Damage (Full): (33 Base +6 BS)*2 +16 Crit Attributes = 108. Weighted 2/20*0.75 = 7.5% = 8.1

39.95 Normal Damage + 1.575 Critical Damage (Resisted) +8.1 Critical Damage (Full) = 49.625 Dmg per swing.

Bane:
Base: 5 STR +8 Songs +5 PA +13 Fists +5 Enhc +2 Bane Enhc = 38
Attributes: 7 Holy +3.5 Shock +7 Anarchic +7 Bane = 24.5
Critical Attributes: 10.5 Holy Burst +5.5 Shocking Burst = 16

Avg Dmg (19-20 Crit)
Normal Damage: [38 Base -15 DR] +24.5 Attributes = 47.5 Dmg. Weighted 17/20 = 85% = 40.375
Critical Damage (Resisted): [38 -15 DR] +24.5 Attributes +16 Critical Attributes = 63.5. Weighted 2/20*0.25 = 2.5% = 1.5875
Critical Damage (Full): [(38 +6 BS)*2 -15 DR] +24.5 Attributes +16 Critical Attributes = 113.5. Weighted 2/20*0.75 = 7.5% = 8.5125

40.375 Normal Damage +1.5875 Critical Damage (Resisted) +8.5125 Critical Damage (Full) = 50.425 Dmg per swing.

The bane wraps are very marginally better.

*5 PA, 8 songs, and 6 BS are included conservatively

[Taimasan]

Thanks this answers my question perfectly, im gonna keep my devouts on for the time being then until i get some Anarchic of GEOB or some Metalline of GEOB.

EDIT: And i think the pit fiends on normal have 25% fort.

[Taimasan]

In fact, with even 25% fortification, the banes come out on top by a large margin

The bane wraps are marginally better.

Ok..now im confused again.

[hydra_ex]

Ok..now im confused again.

Oops... I entered it onto my DPS calc, and I just checked the calc by hand, and realised that I forgot that devout bypasses DR. So its the same result. Banes are a tiny bit better.

For those interested, its here. Its not very user friendly, so I've included a manual here.

*File -> Download to download the calc.

[TheDjinnFor]

Ok I have a dillemia that I need figuring out because I kinda suck at doing math stuff, so was wondering if someone could help me out. Ok first off my strength is 20, I have The Holy Burst Ring(2d6 and +3d6 on a crit) and the Shocking Burst ring(1d6 + 1d10 on a crit).

My question is what is going to be better on normal difficulty against pit fiends?? My devout handwarps?? +2 Metalline(+15 damage a hit) 15 of Pure Good(1d6 a hit). Or my +5 Anarchic(2d6) of Evil Outsider Bane(2d6) -15 damage a hit??

EDIT: Forgot to mention my fists are 2d12.

People seem to be mistaking the potency of the Damage Reduction. DR 15 does not lead to 15 less damage per swing. It leads to 15 less damage per normal hit (85% of the time) plus 15 less damage per critical hit (10% of the time) = 14.25, less anything else.

Assuming you have power attack and improved critical, and hit on anything but a 1, and have absolutely no other extra modifiers you failed to mentioned (seeker trinket, favored enemy, anything) I punched the numbers into my damage per swing calculator. The calculator seems to be working fine.

Your Metalline of PG Handwraps would do 39.75 damage per swing and your Anarchic of EOB will 39.675 damage per swing (both factoring in the 10% crit chance and 5% miss chance). Without Power Attack that would be 34.5 for the M of PG and 34.425 for the A of EOB. As you'll notice, the A of EOB gains more benefit from additional base damage than the M of PG does thanks to the way DR affects critical hits. This means that many more damage buffs layered on top would change the numbers in favor of the A of EOB. Fortification would reduce the damage of critical hits, which is in favor of the M of PG, since the A of EOB relies on the bigger critical hits that the DR has less effect on, rather than solid base damage.

Really, it's a wash, unless the extra to-hit is needed (as soon as it is you've got your answer).

[hydra_ex]

People seem to be mistaking the potency of the Damage Reduction. DR 15 does not lead to 15 less damage per swing. It leads to 15 less damage per normal hit (85% of the time) plus 15 less damage per critical hit (10% of the time) = 14.25

Assuming you have power attack and improved critical, and hit on anything but a 1, and have absolutely no other extra modifiers you failed to mentioned (seeker trinket, favored enemy, anything) I punched the numbers into my damage per swing calculator.

Your Metalline of PG Handwraps would do 39.75 damage per swing and your Anarchic of EOB will 39.675 damage per swing (both factoring in the 10% crit chance and 5% miss chance). Without Power Attack that would be 34.5 for the M of PG and 34.425 for the A of EOB.

Really, it's a wash, but the M of PG is better unless the extra to-hit is needed (as soon as it is you've got your answer).

Don't forget to factor in fortification and that burst effects are still applied. Also, bane increases weapon enhc by 2, so thats 2 more base damage.