New Monk Stance

[ripperj]

so i put this in suggestions, but no garuntee about contructive critizism, and i wanted to know what
the monk users think

Disciple of the World[Enhancement]
light finisher > fire shield(both versions)[1 min] ---cost: 15 ki
dark finisher > hold monster mass[1 min] <will save DC 10 + 1/2 monk lvl + wis mod>---cost: 15 ki

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>lesser world stance >world strike I: 1d6 force + 1d6 force on crit, cost 5 ki

+1 str/dex/con/wis
-2 int/char
cost:4 ap
spent: 8 ap

grant:
+1 ki on hit
+1 ki when hit
+1 to all saves
+1.5% insight to attack speed

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>world stance >world strike II: 2d6 force + 2d6 force on crit, cost 6 ki

+2 str/dex/con/wis
-3 int/char
cost:5 ap
spent: 20 ap

grant:
+1 ki on hit/ +1 ki on crit
+1 ki when hit
+2 to all saves
+3% insight to attack speed

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>greater world stance >world strike III: 3d6 force + 3d6 force on crit, cost 7 ki

+3 str/dex/con/wis
-4 int/char
cost:6 ap
spent: 42 ap

grant:
+1 ki on hit/ +2 ki on crit
+1 ki when hit
+3 to all saves
+4.5% insight to attack speed

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>ultimate world stance >world strike IV: 4d6 force + 4d6 force on crit, cost 8 ki

+4 str/dex/con/wis
-5 int/char
cost:8 ap
spent: 64 ap

grant:
+1 ki on hit/ +3 ki on crit
+1 ki when hit
+4 to all saves
+6% insight to attack speed

[Baahb3]

I love my monk and still this is a huge no.

This is so over the top on everything that I am wondering if this is a joke thread.

[Toucheh]

hmmm it seems like this stance boosts every monk stat and basically makes every other stance obsolete.

[Taimasan]

Would be cool to have something like this for maxing out the passive feat for monks though.

[sinedist]

I would personally opt for a new stance being: Universal Stance.

The breakdown might be as follows:

Disciple of the Universe[Enhancement]
light finisher > fire shield(both versions)[30 min] ---cost: 10 ki
dark finisher > hold monster mass[60 min] <will save DC 40 + 1/2 monk lvl + wis/dex mod>---cost: 10 ki

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>lesser universal stance >universal strike I: 2d6 force + 3d6 force on crit, cost 5 ki

+4 str/dex/con/wis
-2 int/char
cost:2 ap
spent: 0 ap

grant:
+4 ki on hit
+4 ki when hit
+10 to all saves
+5% insight to attack speed
+5 DR
+4 energy resistance (all types)

.
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>ultimate universe stance >universal strike IV: 20d20 force + 25d20 force on crit, cost 1 ki

+20 str/dex/con/wis
-5 int/char
cost:2 ap
spent: 64 ap

grant:
+50 ki on hit/ +3 ki on crit
+50 ki when hit
+40 to all saves
+80% insight to attack speed
+25 DC to stunning fist
+75 DR
+40 Energy Resist
+Vorpal on Crit
+Fists automatically banish, smite, disrupt, destruct, curse, and are ghosttouch.
+Ability to cast firewall and blade barrier, as well as displacement
and
+100% chance to cast "Grease" on hit


But that's just what I think... and I think every monk should be able to equip other monks onto their fists.

[J1NG]

I love the monk class, but I agree that it can be overpowered for a non-pnp game where the DM can moderate it's usage.

Might I suggest some (personal) changes to make it more balanced? And less, it replaces everything else that the monks can take?

***

Requires: Void Strike, Monk Path

Lesser World Stance [Enhancement]
You are in tune with the Ki of the world around you. Giving you some insight into the manipulation of Ki on a level others can not fathom. Your time studying the mysteries of the Ki of the world has lead you to forgo some of your training.
Strength, Wisdom, Constitution, Dexterity -2
Ki Guard: 1d2 Force Damage to those that successfully strike you in melee

(Yeah, it's a bummer to have this Stance on, but it gives you a guard that can keep things off you without being overpowering against those being used on)

Lesser World Strike [Enhancement]
Ki to Use: 10
Your strikes are imbued with the Ki that you have gained some understanding of Ki, manipulating them in a way to bypass the defenses of those you strike. You deal untyped damage to those that you strike, but your skill in manipulating Ki in such a way is raw, you take untyped damage for each strike you land.
+1d6 Untyped Damage
+1d3 Untyped Damage to self

(Not Force Damage, as that's what Void Strike is for, so changed it to basically Vicious damage. Made it 1d6 instead of 1d4 as then it's a non useful strike due to Ki and self damage costs, also the Ki needed is twice what the other strikes would need, ensuring it's not used in all cases)

Cost:4 ap
Spent: 8 ap

***

World Stance [Enhancement]
You are in tune with the Ki of the world around you. Giving you insight into the manipulation of Ki on a level others can not fathom. Your time studying the mysteries of the Ki of the world has lead you to forgo some of your training.
Strength, Wisdom, Constitution, Dexterity -2
+1 Force Damage to all attacks
Ki Guard: 1d2 Force Damage to those that successfully strike you in melee

(Yeah, those stats are a big drain, but what you get in return is basically unblockable damage to play with as well as a guard that can help ward off enemies without killing them (that fires off every time you're hit))

World Strike [Enhancement]
Ki to Use: 15
Your strikes are imbued with the Ki that you have gained understanding of Ki, manipulating them in a way to bypass the defenses of those you strike. You deal untyped damage to those that you strike, but your skill in manipulating Ki in such a way is raw, you take untyped damage for each strike you land.
+1d10 Untyped Damage
+1d3 Untyped Damage to self

(Increases the Vicious damage rating, but also increased the Ki to make it less attractive to just spam this strike over the other elemental strikes which cost much less, but allows it to be useful as it performs damage that on heavy DR enemies can still get through if no other ways you have can, like Harry on Elite..., or if you lack the proper weapons to damage an enemy)

Cost: 5 ap
Spent: 20 ap

***

Greater World Stance [Enhancement]
You are in tune with the Ki of the world around you. Giving you great insight into the manipulation of Ki on a level others can not fathom. Your time studying the mysteries of the Ki of the world has lead you to forgo some of your training.
Strength, Wisdom, Constitution, Dexterity -2
+1d2 Force Damage to all attacks
Ki Guard: 1d3 Force Damage to those that successfully strike you in melee

(Continues to provide bonus to damage and increases the guard without actually making it replace the Void Strike, especially if you factor in the cost needed to activate this stance)

Greater World Strike [Enhancement]
Ki to Use: 20
Your strikes are imbued with the Ki that you have gained a great understanding of Ki, manipulating them in a way to bypass the defenses of those you strike. You deal untyped damage to those that you strike, but your skill in manipulating Ki in such a way is raw, you take untyped damage for each strike you land.
+2d6 Untyped Damage
+1d3 Untyped Damage to self

(Again an increase in the untyped damage given, but also an increase in the Ki cost. Similiar level strikes will be doing much more damage for much less Ki. Only this is untyped and also has burnback on usage)

Cost: 6 ap
Spent: 42 ap

***

Ultimate World Stance [Enhancement]
You are in tune with the Ki of the world around you. Giving you unparalleled insight into the manipulation of Ki on a level others can not fathom. Your time studying the mysteries of the Ki of the world has lead you to forgo some of your training.
Strength, Wisdom, Constitution, Dexterity -2
+1d2 Force Damage to all attacks, all melee attacks get 1% Knockdown effect, no save.
Ki Guard: 1d3 Force Damage to those that successfully strike you in melee, all attacks on you also have a 1% Knockdown effect, no save

(Again, nothing that will replace anything currently in the game, but giving new options to play a monk as a damage dealer or Turtler, although I doubt they can make the 1% Knockdown on your strikes work due to the current lack of greensteel wraps availability. But the one on the guard might be workable. Could replace it with Stun though if wanted, not a biggie, just a guard effect of some kind for the big loss in atributes is what I felt was needed to even have the stance on)

Ultimate World Strike [Enhancement]
Ki to Use: 25
Your strikes are imbued with the Ki that you have gained an unparalleled understanding of Ki, manipulating them in a way to bypass the defenses of those you strike. You deal untyped damage to those that you strike, but your skill in manipulating Ki in such a way is raw, you take untyped damage for each strike you land.
+2d8 Untyped Damage
+1d3 Untyped Damage to self

(To prevent it being just another replacement for the Earth Strike IV, we raise the Ki needed as well as keeping it as Vicious 1d3 untyped damage burnback)

Cost: 8 ap
Spent: 64 ap

***

Ki Light (Light Path Finisher)
World, Light, World
Ki to Use: 30
You manipulate the Ki around you to form a defensive barrier like a shield, enabling you to deflect missiles and attacks to have a reduced effect. (Those in range obtain the an effect like the Shield spell that lasts for 1 minute)

(Personally, felt that a Fireshield was... too overpowering as a group buff. Also this keeps in line with protection from the Light path and Ki being Magic/Force Damage in DDO, hence blocking with a Shield spell. However, the following option came to my head as I was typing this up...)

Worldly Light (Light Path Finisher option 2)
World, Light, World
Ki to Use: 30
You manipulate the Ki around you to key parts of the body to prevent the loss of vital energy from loss or drain or nulllification. (Those in range obtain a Death Ward effect that lasts for 1 minute)

(This might sound a bit more in tune with the loss of attributes for even activating this stance, so...)

***

Draining Ki (Dark Path Finisher)
World, Dark, World
Ki to Use: 40
You manipulate the Ki around you to disperse away from their origins, causing all those around you to become paralysed from the shock of their Ki being drained away. (Those in range get a Mass Hold Monster effect on them)

(Personally, I like the Hold Monster, Mass thing for the Dark sided monk Finisher which was initially proposed, boosted the Ki needed to something a bit higher to prevent it being spammed)

***

Ki Projectile (Void Path Finisher)
World, Ki, World
Ki to Use: 25
You manipulate the Ki around you to form a bolt of uncontrolled energy, before focusing it out towards your target. You produce a Magic Missile type effect.

(Yeah I know, Street Fighter, but they already have Ryu(tar) and Ken(drick) in the game, so why not? )

***

Obvious changes in a few of my suggestions. Primarily to make the Void Strike actually useful and required before you can get this Stance.

Altered your Light Finisher as it was... well... It just seemed out of the blue for such an effect as the finisher. Remember, it will be applied to your allies too. Not just to you. Why Fireshield?

Dark Finisher I thought was fine though.

Otherwise, this Stance line I suggested would basically allow an offensive way of attack that isn't Strength Damage based, nor will it make a stance or strike obsolete. Has its own drawbacks, but certainly has it's own benefits too.

But I doubt this gets picked up anyway. More of a fantasy thing.

J1NG

[Toucheh]

IF big IF, they added a new stance I don't see why we can't have a ranged ki attack seeing as how the fire finisher is a cone fire attack

[J1NG]

IF big IF, they added a new stance I don't see why we can't have a ranged ki attack seeing as how the fire finisher is a cone fire attack

But I think they simply used the existing Burning Hands spell for that, so... if you can recycle an existing resource of the game for a new effect, I think Turbine will be all for it.

But yeah, projectile will make things interesting for a Monk.

J1NG

[SolarDawning]

Personally, I'd just like to see a "Void Stance" enhancement line to go with the Void Strike enhancement. Take that one out, replace it with four tiers of Void Strike. (1d4 force, 2d4 force, 2d8 force, 2d12 force) Weaker than the pure elemental strikes, but versatile.

The existing monk stances all buff one statistic, and lower another by an equal amount. I'd see Void stance as having no changes to ability scores, as the Void embodies a balance between all elements.

If we look at it from a design concept standpoint, the existing stances do the following:
Fire: Ki generation
Wind: Attack speed
Earth: Defense
Water: Fluid defense/offensive balance (increased DC's from wisdom, increased saves, AC while tumbling)

So any new stance would have to offer something that is new, conceptually, and not already under the preview of an existing stance.

I would suggest that the domain of the Void stance be inner balance and manipulation of ki as magical force. The passive benefit for the stance would be +1/2/3/4 to all skills, and +1/2/3/4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class.

I see the finishers as follows: Some ideas borrowed or adapted from previous posters.
Void/Void/Void: Monk-specific Magic Missile like effect. 1d6 force damage per monk level, long range. (Same damage as the Fire/Fire/Fire, longer range, but single target)
Void/Light/Void: 1 minute duration Shield buff on group.
Void/Dark/Void: AoE burst centered on monk, fireball radius, force damage.

Just thoughts, and I am in no way expecting something to change or happen with Void Strike, or a fifth stance to be added.

[sinedist]

Honestly,

I think I would like to see the developers make the other stances significantly more viable end-game before they even begin to think of another stance. (This does not include additional ki costs which nerf windstance in favor of making firestance more considered by monks.)

As it stands I'd still like to see the possibility to build around stances:

Earth Stance could use a DR that isn't weaker than the capstone and doesn't nerf monk damage (really? 10/DR Epic vs. 8/DR-, and you will attack slower since you aren't in Wind? No-one uses Earth Stance for these reasons).

Water Stance could use a realistically substantial gain in DCs, since it would be fitting with Wisdom based monks.

Fire Stance could use a damage boost of some kind. One that applies, either to base, or as an elemental strike gain (increased ki damage per ki strike, perhaps?) -- that doesn't involve fire. There is a reason that few to no monks use the Henshin Mystic ToD set. 1d6 Fire Damage is null when almost all enemies are immune/resistant to it.

[Baahb3]

Personally, I'd just like to see a "Void Stance" enhancement line to go with the Void Strike enhancement. Take that one out, replace it with four tiers of Void Strike. (1d4 force, 2d4 force, 2d8 force, 2d12 force) Weaker than the pure elemental strikes, but versatile.

I would suggest that the domain of the Void stance be inner balance and manipulation of ki as magical force. The passive benefit for the stance would be +1/2/3/4 to all skills, and +1/2/3/4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class.

I see the finishers as follows: Some ideas borrowed or adapted from previous posters.
Void/Void/Void: Monk-specific Magic Missile like effect. 1d6 force damage per monk level, long range. (Same damage as the Fire/Fire/Fire, longer range, but single target)
Void/Light/Void: 1 minute duration Shield buff on group.
Void/Dark/Void: AoE burst centered on monk, fireball radius, force damage.

Some interesting ideas here, a couple of things that may be over the top: the dodge boni, I think it would be a bit much, maybe +0/+1/+1/+2, this would be a bit more balanced.

The other thing is the shield buff, I think the duration should be 60s + x amount per tier of void stance you have (maybe 30s), and it should be self only. This would reflect your introspection into the path and progress with the amount of dedication you have to it, i.e. the level of stance you have.

[Chai]

You are neging dump stats for a monk and adding stuff to all the stats monks use. This lacks balance.

All of the other stances add AND subtract from monk usable stats.