Krythen: Tempest Rogue 13/6/1 - Refined

[Goldeneye]

Krythen: Tempest 13/6/1 Rogue Refined Forum Post
13 Rogue / 6 Ranger / 1 Monk
Halfling: Lawful Good

EDIT: This is the refined posting of Krythen. My original build of Krythen was a little confusing: it required +2 tomes, and was build in Mod8. This is the same level breakdown, but hopefully it will be easier for a newer player to read, follow, and build.

STATS:

BASE (END MOD) +BREAKDOWN
16 Strength
16 Dexterity
14 Constitution
8 Intelligence
8 Wisdom
8 Charisma

(For 32 pt build, got 16 CON)

Ability Increase at level 4,12,16,20 goes into STR
Ability Increase at level 8 goes into DEX!!!


FEATS:

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy:

Goblinoid
Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Level 4 (Ranger)
Level 5 (Rogue)
Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Level 7 (Rogue)
Level 8 (Ranger)
Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency:

Khopesh
Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Level 11 (Rogue)
Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing

Weapons
Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Level 14 (Rogue)
Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 16 (Rogue)
Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Level 19 (Rogue)
Level 20 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike

ARMOR CLASS

I run around with ~50 AC self-buffed because I swapped most AC gear for DPS gear.

HP BREAKDOWN

Rogue (6 per level) 78
Ranger (8 per level) 48
Monk (8 per level) 8
Con: 120
Heroic Durability: 20
Draconic Vitality: 10
Minos Legens: 20
GS/ MIN II Item: 45
GFL: 30
Toughness 22
Racial Toughness II 20

Total: ~421
+Madstone/Rage

SKILLS

The skills for this build are a little complicated. However, if you follow the exact progression closely, you will have MAX ROGUE skills, despite starting with 8 INT, and only being 13 levels of Rogue.

This is accomplished by alternating ranger and rogue levels in the beginning. This maximizes the most amount of skills for your invested skill points. Below I will post the character planner export... follow those plans EXACT.

ENHANCEMENTS LEVEL 20:
This is just a sample: you can set your enhancements any way you want.
EDIT: Let me re-phrase this I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR ENHANCEMENTS ARE.

Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II

TOTAL: 80 AP

Enjoy! And as always: if you have any questions, concerns, comments, unsure what to do, or otherwise confused, feel free to post in this thread or send me a PM
This has been yet another build by Krythan! If you give me credit, call me Krythan. Like my builds: read more in my signature!

[Goldeneye]

As promised: here is the feat/skill progression

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Search (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Goblinoid


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility


Level 4 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike

[MeasureZero]

I was wondering here, what makes Damage Boost attractive enough to put so many points into? Do you often run out of Haste Boosts in situations where you use them?

[Goldeneye]

I was wondering here, what makes Damage Boost attractive enough to put so many points into? Do you often run out of Haste Boosts in situations where you use them?

On my rogue I use them all the time. Considering the boosts are only 20 seconds each, I normally use them all up every quest. They come especially handy on enemies with heavy fort or thick DR, the damage boost adds some much needed damage when you aren't getting sneak attack.

[ArtosKincaid]

Forgive my ignorance, but are the ki attacks usable while uncentered? Is it really worth it to put the points in Concentration?

[Goldeneye]

Forgive my ignorance, but are the ki attacks usable while uncentered? Is it really worth it to put the points in Concentration?

Ah yes, forgive my lack of clarification. Krythen uses concentration in the same sense that casters use concentration: to not get interrupted while casting.

The classic situation:

1. you are the last person alive
2. every monster is attacking you
3. you are running for your life
4. with UMD, rez scrolls, and heal scrolls you can get the party back up
5. if you didn't have concentration, your scrolls will get interrupted.

This has happened soo many times on Krythen. Allows you to be the hero that saves the party from a wipe.

[Redcoil]

Cant use any ki abilities when uncentered. When uncentered, even if your kipool has recently been filled, it slowly dwindles.

[Joras]

Nice build.

[Goldeneye]

Thanks Joras

[Vanshilar]

Actually, the way the skill points are listed, you waste 3 skill points by having ranger train balance (2 point loss) and by having rogue level 1 put 4 points into concentration rather than 2 (1 point loss). You can squeeze out 3 additional skill points (which I'll assume goes into concentration) if you use the following order:

Level 1: Rogue
Jump (1)
Search (4)
Concentration (1)
Disable (4)
Open Lock (4)
UMD (4)
Haggle (4)
Balance (4)
Tumble (1)

Level 2: Monk
Concentration (3)

Level 3: Rogue
Disable (2)
Open Lock (2)
UMD (2)
Haggle (1)

Level 4: Ranger
Search (3)
Concentration (2)

Level 5: Rogue
Disable (2)
Open Lock (2)
UMD (2)
Haggle (1)

Level 6: Ranger
Search (2)
Concentration (3)

Level 7: Rogue
Disable (2)
Open Lock (2)
UMD (2)
Haggle (1)

Level 8: Rogue
Disable (1)
Open Lock (1)
UMD (1)
Haggle (4)

Level 9: Ranger
Search (3)
Concentration (2)

Level 10: Rogue
Disable (2)
Open Lock (2)
UMD (2)
Haggle (1)

Level 11: Ranger
Search (2)
Concentration (3)

Level 12: Rogue
Disable (2)
Open Lock (2)
UMD (2)
Haggle (1)

Level 13: Rogue
Disable (1)
Open Lock (1)
UMD (1)
Haggle (3)
Balance (1)

Level 14: Ranger
Search (3)
Concentration (2)

Level 15: Rogue
Disable (2)
Open Lock (2)
UMD (2)
Haggle (1)

Level 16: Ranger
Search (2)
Concentration (3)

Level 17: Rogue
Search (1)
Disable (2)
Open Lock (2)
UMD (2)

Level 18: Rogue
Search (1)
Disable (1)
Open Lock (1)
UMD (1)
Haggle (3)

Level 19: Rogue
Search (1)
Disable (1)
Open Lock (1)
UMD (1)
Haggle (2)
Balance (1)

Level 20: Rogue
Search (1)
Disable (1)
Open Lock (1)
UMD (1)
Haggle (1)
Balance (2)

This order maxes out the skills you had originally maxed out (search, disable, open lock, UMD, and haggle), but concentration will be increased to 19 instead of the original 16. Balance remains at 8, and like the original order, this also puts 1 point into jump. Of course, nothing in life is free, and the disadvantage of this order is that you get ranger 6 at level 16, which means no tempest until then (and probably requires juggling a couple of feats around). But if you really want to max out skills, this would be a better order. Some food for thought.

The way this order was generated was to take a ranger level if search and concentration would not go above the maximum for that level; if they would, then take rogue instead. Except for the 2 rogue points into concentration at level 1, no other points are cross-class trained, thereby maximizing your skills. Taking monk early is to essentially help raise the maximum amount, so that more points can be focused on the major skills (search, disable, open lock, UMD, and haggle) and less points would be diverted into a minor skill (balance).

[Goldeneye]

Wow Vanshilar, that is some good attention to detail.

I was considering taking monk early, just for that reason: though I thought it would be best to get Tempest / Improved two weapon fighting as early as possible.

All these skills make my head hurt atm, you made a good suggestion, I'll see how it works when I get home.

[Vanshilar]

Yes having the DPS feats out earlier definitely makes levelling easier, so it depends on whether you're the type that think "well 95% of my character's life is spent at level 20 anyway so a few gimpy levels (a temporary thing) won't matter compared with getting higher skills (a permanent thing)" or the type that think "I want to get to level 20 as soon as possible so DPS on the way up is the most important thing".

Basically, the later you take your ranger 6 level, the more your ranger levels can help out with search, and thus the more the rogue levels can be put to use on rogue-only skills. It helps to consider the skills as "ranger-only" (search, concentration) and "rogue-only" (disable, open lock, UMD, haggle, balance), with the monk level letting you control how much concentration vs balance you want (since neither will be maxed). Using those guidelines, I can also come up with a build that has the same skills maxed but has concentration at 15 and balance at 12, for example. Whether or not you would want to play a character that doesn't get greater two weapon fighting until level 18, though, is another matter entirely.

[Redcoil]

A few touch-ups

1. Put all stat points into STR! By the time you need the 17 dex, ANY CHARACTER can afford/find/trade a +1 dex tome - in today's market they go for 10, 15k pp?
- Putting all 5 into Str = +1 tomes on str/dex and gain +1/1 hit/dam.

1b. Also gain one full BAB over 1 partial monk bab.

2. Drop Monk + Fighter
- Gain 4hp, gain Fighter Ench 10hp for Toughness.
- Also, if used, +trip ench etc
- Concern: have to reorg feats as Toughness is not a fighter feat. Use Fighter for khop, dodge etc, and use a natural feat for toughness.

3. HEROIC COMPANION!!!
- its a 1 MINUTE buff to allies on a 30sec timer- you can buff 2 allies alternating for+5damage/saves, +4attack, +3ac, or a single ally for 5 minutes.
- Simple Rotation, Heroic Companion Ally A, self use Haste boost. 30sec, 2nd haste boost. As timer comes up, heroic companion Ally A again, re haste boost... or just alternate. Companion Ally A, Haste. Companion Ally B, haste...

3b. Maxing Heroic Companion and Rogue Haste, then get Damage 1 - most of your damage is in favored enemy and sneak attack, not your base damage. Dont waste the points.

These changes essentially give you +2/1 hit/damage, 14hp, and lots of damage to party.
Downside: I didn't bother with skill boost, as you can +GH, all that stuff. If you cant get em without, odds are you cant get em with and mias well bring a 20rogue int based mechanic trap monkey... you are dps!
2nd Loss: Skillpoints... I still say take fighter over monk, though...

[Asketes]

bravo krythan

lets see if you can get all the kills in VoD now, instead of just 40

like your build wasn't good enough as it is

[Deusxmachina]

Downside: I didn't bother with skill boost, as you can +GH, all that stuff. If you cant get em without, odds are you cant get em with and mias well bring a 20rogue int based mechanic trap monkey... you are dps!

I currently have skill boost kind of for traps, but really mainly to UMD Heal scrolls since my guy needs more gear in that area yet. Don't know if Krythan has that problem at this time or not, but just sayin'.

And, ok, taking another look at Heroic Companion now...

[SEMPER]

just curious why not go fighter instead of monk your not going for ac anyway ?

[Goldeneye]

A few touch-ups

1. Put all stat points into STR! By the time you need the 17 dex, ANY CHARACTER can afford/find/trade a +1 dex tome - in today's market they go for 10, 15k pp?
- Putting all 5 into Str = +1 tomes on str/dex and gain +1/1 hit/dam.

1b. Also gain one full BAB over 1 partial monk bab.

2. Drop Monk + Fighter
- Gain 4hp, gain Fighter Ench 10hp for Toughness.
- Also, if used, +trip ench etc
- Concern: have to reorg feats as Toughness is not a fighter feat. Use Fighter for khop, dodge etc, and use a natural feat for toughness.

3. HEROIC COMPANION!!!
- its a 1 MINUTE buff to allies on a 30sec timer- you can buff 2 allies alternating for+5damage/saves, +4attack, +3ac, or a single ally for 5 minutes.
- Simple Rotation, Heroic Companion Ally A, self use Haste boost. 30sec, 2nd haste boost. As timer comes up, heroic companion Ally A again, re haste boost... or just alternate. Companion Ally A, Haste. Companion Ally B, haste...

3b. Maxing Heroic Companion and Rogue Haste, then get Damage 1 - most of your damage is in favored enemy and sneak attack, not your base damage. Dont waste the points.

These changes essentially give you +2/1 hit/damage, 14hp, and lots of damage to party.
Downside: I didn't bother with skill boost, as you can +GH, all that stuff. If you cant get em without, odds are you cant get em with and mias well bring a 20rogue int based mechanic trap monkey... you are dps!
2nd Loss: Skillpoints... I still say take fighter over monk, though...

1.) All stat points into Strength: you are correct. +1 DEX tomes are easy to get. If the player feels they are capable of that, then put all points into STR. The same idea applies to +2 DEX tomes: if you got one, start with 15 base DEX, and put the starting points elsewhere.

2.) Fighter would be a good choice for someone that doesn't want to buy monk. There is no reason a player could choose fighter instead of monk. If the player plans on making Min II's, I would be tempted to drop Imp Crit, and take 1 level of Barbarian instead (remember to start non-lawful)

3.) Heroic companion is fun. That would work!

4.) Skill Boost - great for UMD, and really useful if you don't have all your rogue-gear.

[Baachus]

Any thoughts on the stat distribution for a true reincarnate with +1 tomes for set,con,dex, and int?

[Goldeneye]

Any thoughts on the stat distribution for a true reincarnate with +1 tomes for set,con,dex, and int?

In that case you could:

• Drop DEX to 15 (use +2 DEX tome for GTWF)
• up CON: more HP is always good
• up INT: get your INT higher, so your assassinate II DC would be effective

[Xezno]

You should really try to fit acrobat 2 into your build. Those immunities and the run speed are pretty nice, and you can free up balance as it wont be needed anymore with knockdown immunity.