skills to get for frenzy barb

[Lord_Agalon]

im following shades guide leveling into jump balance and spot putting 2 points into tumble he recommends putting remaining points into haggle. Is this the best option or would another skill such as umd be better then haggle?

[Spisey]

I would respond to this but unfortuantely I cannot. To question Shade, king of barbarians, about his build reasoning only leads to double digit threads full flame.

If he feels haggle is a good skill to distribute points to over umd, then it is totally what I would do!

Never question a Shadebarian!

[Lord_Agalon]

im sry

[Anneliese]

If you have no high-haggle char to buy items for you, then yes, put the remaining into haggle.

[epochofcrepuscule]

haggle.. on a barbarian... isnt that what we all have those bards/sorcs for?

But hes right, never question shade about a barb!

[Ambulance]

You don't need UMD on a barbarian. Since you will be raged most of the time, you wouldn't be able to use scrolls or wands anyway.

And even if you could, I don't think you could get UMD high enough to be useful, since you're short on skill points. Not sure about the numbers but I think you would end up with sth around 10. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

[Lord_Agalon]

The build im following would be a 10 intelligence base. So that would = 16 points at level 1. I would have 4 into balance 4 into jump 4 into spot and 2 into tumble, thus giving me 2 points extra to put into haggle or any other skills. And every next level onward 1 extra point to distribute. Im sry to question this as i know shade is well respected and i think his guide is fantastic, but just wondering what other options i may have.

[Nicoleekins]

i don't really bother with putting any into haggle because i don't buy any items from the auction, i just use whatever i find that is awesome :P my friend gave me a sword that does excellent damage, so for me the haggle isn't really nessecary, but just for having a point to put somewhere i guess that wouldn't be a bad place to put it

[Rusty_Can]

You don't need UMD on a barbarian. Since you will be raged most of the time, you wouldn't be able to use scrolls or wands anyway.

And even if you could, I don't think you could get UMD high enough to be useful, since you're short on skill points. Not sure about the numbers but I think you would end up with sth around 10. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

Uhm.... this is not the place to start another discussion about barbarian rage, UMD skill and potions; anyway, UMD can still be useful even on permanently-raged barbarians: for instance, if your barbarian is True Neutral, UMD skill might be useful to equip "Race Restricted" and "alignment restricted" gear. Even with low starting CHA, depending on available gear, UMD might easily reach the 25-30 range.

[CSFurious]

jump, listen, intimidate, half-points into balance

[Shade]

I've level'd 4 Barbarians and did put UMD on one.. Wasn't worth it. I could never hit the numbers needed to use whatever weapons witout severely sacrificing my gear.

Other choices:
Swim: My original Barbarian actaully has a bit in this and I don't regret it to much. It has it's purpose in several quests:
DQ1 - especially elite/epic, makes it much easier to get the octo key without taking a hit/dying in the trap.
Crucible.. Do the swim fast and easy (not a requirement like DQ1 pretty much is, this can be done with 0 swim, but its easier)
Titan - Swim thru the lava for fun!
Swim actaully makes your swim speed quite allot faster and doesn't seem to have a limit like jump, I can get something nuts like 80 points and swim mega fast lol.

Convo skills: Eh, all charisma based and cross classed, requires too much investment for the small purpose they have. Let the bards/sorcs/etc handle em.

Listen: Redudant, Spot is superior.

Bluff: Too slow to activate to be any benefit.

Haggle means more coins, and also is used in a few convo options to save coin, so it's nice for any character.

[Lord_Agalon]

thanks shade for that info, so boils down to either swim or haggle for most part. i do like fast swimming hehe

[lolwatboomer]

Uhm.... this is not the place to start another discussion about barbarian rage, UMD skill and potions; anyway, UMD can still be useful even on permanently-raged barbarians: for instance, if your barbarian is True Neutral, UMD skill might be useful to equip "Race Restricted" and "alignment restricted" gear. Even with low starting CHA, depending on available gear, UMD might easily reach the 25-30 range.

I'd like to see a pure 20 barbarian reach 25-30 UMD without gimping himself.

[Rusty_Can]

I'd like to see a pure 20 barbarian reach 25-30 UMD without gimping himself.

Average 8 starting CHA lvl 20 pure barbarian with poor gear (kids do love this build):

11 ranks (max ranks at lvl 20 for cross-class skills)
3 CHA modifier (8 starting CHA + 6 item + 2 tome; it might be higher)
2 luck bonus (Head of Good Fortune)
3 competence bonus (Golden Cartouche)
4 morale bonus (Greater Heroism)
= 23 (enough to overcome alignment restrictions)

Same as above, but with better gear:

5 competence bonus (Seven Fingered Gloves)
6 exceptional bonus to CHA skills (greensteel crafted item)
= 31

Human characters might boost it higher with Human Versatility.

Btw, I'm not considering:
Exceptional CHA items;
+4 CHA tomes (not easy to acquire);
slightly more sophisticated builds.

You welcome ^^.

[Ambulance]

Average 8 starting CHA lvl 20 pure barbarian with poor gear (kids do love this build):

11 ranks (max ranks at lvl 20 for cross-class skills)
3 CHA modifier (8 starting CHA + 6 item + 2 tome; it might be higher)
2 luck bonus (Head of Good Fortune)
3 competence bonus (Golden Cartouche)
4 morale bonus (Greater Heroism)
= 23 (enough to overcome alignment restrictions)

3 competence bonus (Golden Cartouche)? I´m not sure I want to waste any item slot for a int/UMD item... There´s more important gear to strive for as a barb (I know you can still swap items when needed, but you want to have UMD to bypass rr, right?)

4 morale bonus (Greater Heroism)? Ok, but if you want to bypass rr you will have to have GH cast on you 24/7 or you won´t be able to use the items when necessary. Please remember you´re on US servers, where many casters don´t even buff GH ;-) Lucky you if you have planar gird(s) though

So that´s -7 already.. meaning an ungimped char will have around 16 UMD after getting all ranks, which isn´t enough for most rr items.

5 competence bonus (Seven Fingered Gloves)
6 exceptional bonus to CHA skills (greensteel crafted item)
= 31

again, I really need my item slots for more important stuff.. Do you really think I´m gonna waste ingredients or craft exceptional bonus stuff for chr?

Human characters might boost it higher with Human Versatility.

ok that´s a point, but still there are enhancements more useful for a barb.

However all of the above is of course possible if you´re not striving to be be a max dps barb

[Rusty_Can]

I´m not sure I want to waste any item slot for a int/UMD item... There´s more important gear to strive for as a barb (I know you can still swap items when needed, but you want to have UMD to bypass rr, right?)

Given the current implementation of UMD skill (which, for the record, I don't like), you need to match requirements only for the short time needed to wear the restricted items; after that, you can safely let your UMD skill drop.

4 morale bonus (Greater Heroism)? Ok, but if you want to bypass rr you will have to have GH cast on you 24/7 or you won´t be able to use the items when necessary. Please remember you´re on US servers, where many casters don´t even buff GH ;-) Lucky you if you have planar gird(s) though

1) Bad habits are not my concern. However, if you ask casters politely, they usually provide all the needed buffs; at least, this is my experience.

2) Ok, you are alone and your gear is not top-notch (i.e. no Planar Gird and no Draconic Necklace): drink a Heroism potion? it's still +2 morale bonus to skills.

3) As i pointed out earlier, you don't need to match UMD requirements 24/7.

again, I really need my item slots for more important stuff.. Do you really think I´m gonna waste ingredients or craft exceptional bonus stuff for chr?

1) AIR X 3 would provide you +6 exceptional bonus to CHA skills and Air Guard, which I do like: the extra attack speed, stacking with everything, is really nice.

2) Ok, you don't like Air Guard and you don't wanna waste large ingredients: crafting "AIR X 2" items, you would still get +3 exceptional bonus to CHA skills and "Haste" clickies; not a bad deal, imo.

3) Off topic: my barbarians usually take full ranks in Intimidate skill (CHA-based).

However all of the above is of course possible if you´re not striving to be be a max dps barb

1) Why? The damage dealt by "guard" gear has nothing to do with being barbarian and the damage that barbarian class can deliver. If your DPS is mainly coming from "guard" gear, then it's time to check your build .....

2) As i said, having decent UMD on barbarians is possible, if you care about it (i.e. you invest in it). I like more sophisticated builds than the average 18_STR 18_CON no_AC punching bag.

[Crann]

i don't really bother with putting any into haggle because i don't buy any items from the auction, i just use whatever i find that is awesome :P my friend gave me a sword that does excellent damage, so for me the haggle isn't really nessecary, but just for having a point to put somewhere i guess that wouldn't be a bad place to put it

Your Haggle skill is not taken into consideration when you use the Auction House. It is used when you interact with vendors/brokers.

And thanks to Shade for the WF barb build. I am having a blast with it, alot of fun. I did something a little different with mine. Once they announced the LR +1, I splashed a wiz level for wand usage. I was mostly PUG'ing and soloing at the time, and the potion usage was putting me in the red for this toon. Now I have full usage of arcane wands, and have spent considerably less on keeping myself alive. Having blur/stoneskin/shield/res/protect on wands has been very nice, and there have been alot of confused folks in PUG's wondering where a blur came from with no arcane in a party. Once I get a few levels higher, I will prolly lose the wiz level through a LR +1 to get this toon back to a pure barb.

[Xaearth]

I've got a barb largely based on Shade's build, and personally I popped my extra points into Intimidate.

Yes, I know my damage can take and maintain aggro.
Yes, I know spamming intimidate will lower dps.
Yes, I know my intimidate will not be high enough for bosses without serious build sacrifice.

The key is not to use it to maintain aggro but to use it to grab aggro of trash mobs in those odd occasions that generally turn into catastrophic failures, or at the very least major nuisances.

Grouped with an arcane that doesn't know how to handle aggro? Works great.
Pesky wraiths keep phasing out and chasing the caster? Not anymore.
Run towards a mob intent on smashing its skull in only to have it beeline past you for the cleric three miles behind you?

As long as you understand the limitations, it can be a very handy use for skill points that otherwise just don't seem to fit anywhere useful.