Help With Pally Build?

[Gladiator_206]

Hey everyone - Tantalus Here,

so lets jump right to it. Ive got a ranger almost at cap and I plan on TR'ing him into a pally. I built this ranger a very long time ago before I understtod anything about the game, so needles to say he is a little bit more than squishy.. and very lack lustor in the dps department.

My Minimum requirements for this build:
1) High dps
2) Extremley high survivaility (be it AC, HP, evasion, or anything else you can think of.)
3) at least 18 levels of palladin

Things i would like to included but not nesesary:
1) UMD (heal scroll ability)
2) More survivabilty, and more dps.
3) Enough spell points to buff myself resonably well.

Basically, i want what any pallidin wants - an all around good one!

Restrictions:
1) Preff not halfling
2) otherwise anything goes.

I figure the twf line is a given since I stated my dps wants.Tomes of plus 1 and plus 2 are no problem, Ive allready got a +2dex,and +2str tomes waiting. I plan on using the holy swords as my main wepns for a signifigant time, basiclly any gear sept for abbot is aloud. Do you think that 20 paly is better for me needs or some sort of 18/ combo? im oen to anything just as long as can maintan 18 lvls of pally for the enhancements lines.Hmm, i think thats it, if any questions just ask in thread.

And remeber its a 34 point build not 32 points.

So you guys think you can help a fellow out? Thanks in advance!

[Gladiator_206]

really? no-one?

I tried making a couple builds in the character planner, but they never seemed to have nearly the stats amoung other things that people ahieve o the fourms.

bump.

[Goldeneye]

IMO, there are 2 ways you can go:

1. 20 Paladin - delicious capstone
2. 18 Paladin / 2 rogue - evasion and super UMD

I would go two weapon fighting Khopesh.
Either human for Skill points / feat / good AP
or Drow since the CHA bonus makes meeting the CHA req for divine might cheaper to achieve.

[Gladiator_206]

Allright, thanks for the tip goldeneye. Would you have any sujestions stat wise? or do you have a personal oppinion on race or the lvl break up? Im just trying to see what all the pally players have as their oppinions, as it will help me make a better informed hoice when i actually do tr my ranger.

also, would you recomend trying to squese in the ranger pastlife feat or is it useless?

[PSU93]

Goldeneye pretty much nailed it. For high DPS, go TWF Knight of the Chalice with Khopesh proficiency. Human is a good choice for this because of the extra Feat. Starting stats would be something like 16 15 14 8 8 16 for a 34 pt build. You could also make Con 16 and Cha 14 if you'd rather have more HP than better Saves, LoH, DM II, etc. Get a +2 Dex Tome at Level 7 to open up access to ITWF and GTWF. For the other Feats I'd go Toughness, Power Attack, IC: Slashing, and Force of Personality.

If you go Drow, stick with Rapiers and take those Enhancements. Start with 16 16 12 10 8 16. You'll be a little bit squishier, but it's hard to get that CON up without sacrificing something else. I'm not a fan of Finesse-based DEX builds, but I suppose that's an option. You'll only need a +1 DEX Tome to qualify for 17 base. Same Feats except you won't need Khopesh, and obviously take IC: Piercing for the Rapiers.

Drow would also give you the option of starting with a higher CHA, say 18 and dropping STR. Then you could put 2 level-up points into CHA to qualify for Divine Might IV.

You'll need items and possibly a Tome to get your WIS up to cast spells. Pick up a Club of the Magi to use during quest zone-in and at shrines, buff, then switch to your real weapons.

Staying pure, it will be hard to get your UMD high enough for no-fail Heal scrolls, even with a CHA item. You'll still have nice LoH's and the Unyielding Sovereignty option as well.

[Gladiator_206]

so it sounds like going pure would not be the best option. Would 2monk for the extra feats be better or would 2rogue be a superior choice ?

Also, taking the evasion splash's means im going to be a clothie doesn't it? oh well, i guess ll have to deal with another toon in blue robes :P

[PSU93]

If you insist on splashing, go 2 Rogue for Evasion and UMD. I haven't worked out Enhancements for a multi-class, but if you can fit in some Sneak Attack benefits that would be great. Might as well pick up some trapsmith and lockpicking skills as well.

For the Monk stuff, I think you need to be centered to gain the most benefit, which you won't be with khopeshes or rapiers.

[gavagai]

Junts has a great guide for making Paladins, and you'll see good build layouts. Here are his builds and here is his general guide.

My 3 cents:
<> Human or Drow. Human is probably better since, as a splash, you don't need the high CHA -- but you'll enjoy Kopeshes and CON.
<> If human, rogue is better than monk. You don't really need those feats, and getting your Wisdom to a point where it'll help your AC will hurt your STR and CON.
<> If a splash, you only need 15 CHA -- with a +3 tome you'll get Divine Might III.
<> 32-pt build stats like this:

STR 16  (10 pts)
DEX 15  (8 pts)
CON 14  (6 pts)
INT   8
WIS  8
CHA 15  (8 pts)

If you insist on splashing, go 2 Rogue for Evasion and UMD. I haven't worked out Enhancements for a multi-class, but if you can fit in some Sneak Attack benefits that would be great. Might as well pick up some trapsmith and lockpicking skills as well.

Without any INT, the most he could get from his rogue skills is a few points in Open Locks. That will actually be good enough to open most chests/doors with appropriate equipment. But don't stretch to max DD & Search because no DPS-focused Paladin/Rogue has the points to invest in INT to make it work.

For the Monk stuff, I think you need to be centered to gain the most benefit, which you won't be with khopeshes or rapiers.

You can benefit from Wisdom AC as long as you don't use armor/shields. So a kopesh pally can benefit from a monk splash. The problem is that without a 34-point build, there's no easy way to get Wis to 14 that doesn't hurt in other areas.

[Gladiator_206]

<> If a splash, you only need 15 CHA -- with a +3 tome you'll get Divine Might III.
<> 32-pt build stats like this:

STR 16  (10 pts)
DEX 15  (8 pts)
CON 14  (6 pts)
INT   8
WIS  8
CHA 15  (8 pts)

You can benefit from Wisdom AC as long as you don't use armor/shields. So a kopesh pally can benefit from a monk splash. The problem is that without a 34-point build, there's no easy way to get Wis to 14 that doesn't hurt in other areas.

well, it will be a 34point build, since i am tr'ing one of my other toons so that clears up that problem. That being said, where should the extra 2 points go into? Wisdom? How much wisdom would i need before the monk spalsh becomes better than the rogue spalsh? Or can the monk splash ever beat out the rogue splash?

[gavagai]

well, it will be a 34point build, since i am tr'ing one of my other toons so that clears up that problem. That being said, where should the extra 2 points go into? Wisdom? How much wisdom would i need before the monk spalsh becomes better than the rogue spalsh? Or can the monk splash ever beat out the rogue splash?

Looking at some 1 a.m. back-of-the-envelope numbers, it will be hard to get a comfortable AC on a human DPS pally. Upping INT (for Combat Expertise) and WIS enough draws CHA, DEX, STR, and CON extremely tight.

Here's an example of how painfully spread out this beast is looking, assuming you can eat a +4 CHA tome and +3 Dex tome for TWF:

STR  15  (+5lvl, +6item, +3 tome, +1 enh = 30) 
DEX  14  (+3tome for TWF/ITWF/GTWF. With +6item = 23)
CON  14  
INT   10  (+3tome for CE)
WIS  14  (+2tome, +6item =22)
CHA  14  (+4tome for Divine Might III. With +2 enh. and +6item = 26)

IMO, that's barely even a build; its all tomes lol. With full gear, it's looking at around a 60 Standing / 70 Self-buffed AC... which isn't great considering all the effort.

Here's to see if my numbers are correct:

AC
10 Base
6 Dexterity
6 Wisdom
5 Aura
1 Monk Bonus
4 Icy Raiments Dodge
1 Alch. Dodge
2 Chaosgarde
3 Chat Ring Dodge
4 Insight (Shroud item)
5 Protection
8 Armor Bracers
5 Combat Expertise
60 Standing (Unbuffed)

5 Barkskin (Past Life Feat?)
4 Shield Clickie
1 Haste
70 Self-Buffed

2 recitation
4 bard song
76

That assumes you get all the equipment, can afford the full +5 AC aura, have the Ranger Past Life feat, and get Combat Expertise. Add +1 if you take the Dodge feat.

A Halfling could have +3 AC (= +1 starting Base 16, +1 Dex enhancements, +1 Racial); Drow could have +2 (+1 Base 16, +1 Dex enh). And if you use a monk feat for finesse, you could get another +2/+3 from level up points in Dex. But you lose STR/CON with those races and, of course, the DPS benefits of full STR and kopesh.

IMO STR and kopeshes are much more important than prancing about in robes anyway.

Personally, I'd stick with rogue for the UMD and Sneak Attack. But Junt's Aryenne build has also convinced me that you can forget monk AC and still accomplish ALOT with those two extra feats.

[Thalick]

I'm picking up the two levels of Monk instead of Rogue. I don't really care about UMD. I know my dps will suffer without sneak attack or weapons of good, but I like having the extra feat options, so if you want to grab an extra toughness for the lack on constitution you can. Here is the build I am thinking about going with (just hit level 5 last night):

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Thalick 
Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Monk) 
Hit Points: 360
Spell Points: 245 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 20
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         10                    12
Wisdom                8                    11
Charisma             16                    18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    16.5
Bluff                 3                     4
Concentration         5                    16
Diplomacy             3                     4
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                4.5                   6
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  3                     4
Intimidate            3                     4
Jump                  7                    17
Listen               -1                     2
Move Silently         3                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     1
Search                0                     3
Spot                 -1                     2
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                4                     5
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance I
Enhancement: Vulkoor's Avatar
Enhancement: Follower of Vulkoor
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III

I might drop OTWF for something else later on, not sure yet.

[Gladiator_206]

Here is the build I am thinking about going with (just hit level 5 last night):

Strength 16 23
Dexterity 16 18
Constitution 12 14
Intelligence 10 12
Wisdom 8 11
Charisma 16 18[/COLOR]

I might drop OTWF for something else later on, not sure yet.

leaving stats uneven is useless, especialy sicne you allready worked in tomes/enhancements into it. I suppose you could just be leaving room for plus 3 tomes however.

and yea, drop OTWF for something else, you shouldn't havent a problem hittng anything with a full BAB really.
at least, one would hope not.

edit: how do you like it as of lvl 5? working good or is there anything you would change?