High AC, high saves, Evasion TWF robe-wearing paladin intimitank

[Kam-Ekaze]

This is an idea that just kept creeping back into my head and I couldn't get rid of so I just went ahead and true reincarnated to have a play with this "flavour" build.

I call it a flavour build because it is very unusual and not optimal... This means yeah, it will fall short in some areas, and very possibly end up being gimped. The good news is that so far its been different and a blast to play with a somewhat different gameplay style than other builds I have played.

Build focus: High AC, high saves, Evasion TWF robe-wearing paladin intimitank.

Extras:

- Passable DPS in tank mode
- Hate tanking (still questionable)

Halfling Paladin 15/Fighter 2/Monk 3 (34 point build)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
STR 12 + 2 Tome + 1 Fighter + 6 item + 3 stance - 2 monk stance = 22
DEX 16 + 2 Time + 5 level bumps + 2 Halfling + 6 item + 3 exceptional = 34
CON 14 + 2 Tome + 6 item + 3 stance = 25
WIS 13 + 2 Tome + 6 item +1 monk + 2 exceptional + 2 monk stance + 2 yogg pot = 28
INT 13 + 1 Tome = 14
CHA 14 + 2 Tome + 6 item + 2 Paladin enh = 24

Required tomes:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

+1 Intelligence at level 3 for extra skill points.
+1 Strength at some stage for Power Attack.
+2 Charisma for Divine Might II

Levels and Feats:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1: Monk (TWF, Toughness)
2: Paladin
3: Paladin (Weapon Finesse)
4: Paladin
5: Fighter (Dodge)
6: Paladin (TWD)
7: Monk (Combat Expertise)
8: Fighter (iTWF)
9: Paladin (Power Attack)
10: Paladin
11: Paladin
12: Monk (gTWF, Fists of Light)
13/14: Paladin
15: Paladin. (iCrit: Slashing - Swapped for Bull headed once greensteel kamas crafted)
16/17: Paladin
18: Paladin. (SF: Intimidate)
19/20: Paladin

Skills:
~~~~~~~

1: Monk: 2 Intim, 2 UMD, 4 Jump, 4 Balance, 4 Concentration
2-3: Paladin: 0.5 Intim, 0.5 UMD, 0.5 Balance
4: Paladin 0.5 UMD, 1 Balance, 1 Concentration
5: Fighter: 3 Intim, 0.5 UMD
6: Paladin: 1 Intim, 0.5 UMD, 1 Concentration
7: Monk: 1 Intim, 0.5 UMD, 2 Balance, 1 Jump
8: Fighter: 3 Intim, 0.5 UMD
9: Paladin: 0.5 UMD, 1 intim, 0.5 Balance
10: Paladin: 0.5 UMD, 1 intim, 1 concentration
11: Paladin: 1 Intim, 0.5 UMD, 1 concentration
12: Monk: 1 Intim, 0.5 UMD, 1 Jump, 2 Balance
13-19: Paladin: 1 Intim, 0.5 UMD, 1 Concentration
20: Paladin: 1 Intim, 2 Concentration

Total skill point distribution:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Intimidate: 23 intimidate, 11 UMD, 6 Jump, 11 Balance, 11 Concentration


AC breakdown:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

10 base
8 armored Bracers
1 alchemical bonus
12 DEX
9 WIS
5 CE
1 Dodge feat
1 TWD feat
3 Syb Defender Stance
5 Protection
5 aura
1 Monk
1 racial
--
62


Add gear:

4 Icy Raiment
3 Dodge (Chattering Ring)
4 Insight (greensteel weapon)
--
73


Add self-Buffs:

1 Haste
4 Shield (UMDed off Wand)
3 Barkskin
--
81


Add Raid buffs:

+2 full Ranger Barkskin
+4 Bard Song
+2 Recitation
--
89


With boosts:

+3 Paladin AC boost
--
92


Hit Points:
~~~~~~~~~~~

20 base
150 Paladin
20 Fighter
24 Monk
23 Toughness
20 Halfling Toughness
30 Paladin Toughness
160 CON bonus
30 Greater False Life item
45 Shroud HP item
10 Draconic favor reward
20 Minos Hat
---
529


Intimidate:
~~~~~~~~~~~

23 ranks
4 Greater Heroism
7 CHA bonus
15 item
6 Greensteel +CHA skills item
1 Fighter enhancement
1 Monk enhancement
3 SF: Intimidate
2 Bull headed
2 Bard Song
------------------------------------
64 (-4 halfling size racial penalty)


Saves:
~~~~~~

Fort/Reflex/Will

9/5/5 Paladin
3/3/3 Monk
3/0/0 Fighter
6/6/6 Cha
0/12/0 Dex
6/0/0 Con
0/0/7 Wis
5/5/5 Resistance
3/3/3 Paladin Aura
4/4/4 GH
0/1/2 Halfling Enhancements
1/1/1 Halfling racial bonus
1/1/1 Water stance

41/41/37 Total

200% extra hate from defnder II + divine righteousness. The fire/fire/fire monk finisher coupled with superior potency I item and a greater combustion I potion makes for a great alternate for "cleave" hate tanking. Only downside is having to activate CE again after using it, so beware.

Monk benefits: blur, SP reduction, cure blindness, healing, etc.

-------------

This is an experimental build, I know the first question will be why halfling when they get a penalty to intimidate (which makes a silly choice for an intimitank) That's mostly just a matter of choice. I love playing halflings and I'll just deal with the penalties. Race could easily be replaced by drow which gives the benefit of rapiers, however losing most monk benefits as those are not monk weapons (keeping AC, but losing ki generation, therefore finishers, etc.)

Weapon of choice will be dual kamas.

Would really appreciate feedback, this is one of my first custom builds so if the experts could pick my brain I'd love you all for it.

Thanks!

[Oreg]

Why kamas instead of handwraps? Seems dps light and i'd think your dps would be improved with wraps.

[Kam-Ekaze]

Handwraps do give better dps, and often times when I go dps mode I switch to wraps.

My last incarnation used kamas so I have a full selection of them

Also I took the TWD feat, so I get nothing from it when I use handwraps.

Also, you can't craft greensteel handwraps

Although with 15 levels of paladin, there's nothing really stopping me from making holy swords out of rapiers and playing with those every now and then.

[Gercho]

Have you done the math for the enhancements points? seems you have a lot of enhancements accounted on your build, not sure if you can afford all those.

Not sure how will be your dps, seems the weak link.

A couple ideas not sure they could work, put level up points on str instead of dex, and use tower shield when you are tanking or twf when dps is needed. I think overall you will get more ac when you are tanking and more dps when the party really needs dps over a tank. (i think monk wis bonus works with tower shield, if thats not the case, then scratch what i said)
TWD doesnt seems to be a great feat, maybe sf:umd?
Not sure if your intimidate will be high enough for the situations intimidate is really needed.

[Kam-Ekaze]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated =]

I haven't done the math for the enhancements, but I'm not too worried, just enhancements and they are interchangeable easily. If I run short on enhancements I will just ditch some of the enhancements to saves as the build is plentiful on those anyway.

Monk wis bonuses are lost immediately when equipping a shield, so tower shield and heavy armor are a no-go, the build is a finesse-based anyway, and focuses on AC so dex on level ups is really a no brainer. You are right that dps is the weak point, however Oreg was onto something with handwraps which really do give much better dps.
I will experiment with dual rapiers as well when I get her to around 10th level and I don't take such a big hit from oTWF. If I'm really hurting for to-hit with two rapiers I can exchange TWD for oTWF. SF:UMD would be a waste as the build isn't really focused on UMD.

Right now at 7th level, I'm peaking at 48 AC while two weapon fighting, though in reality more often than not running around with handwraps. Power Attack and Divine Might II will help some on the dps front, and I suppose I can take iCrit piercing instead of slashing then decide which set of greensteels I would prefer between kamas and rapiers. Kamas definitely for tanking, damage is redundant so far as I can more or less keep intimidate going with a 100% uptime.

I'll see how it goes. Having uber dps is definitely not the focus of this build anyway, though passable dps is a leisure I'd like to have. If anyone's got any better ideas on how to improve damage without sacrificing AC, please I'm all ears

You mentioned my intimidate not being high enough for situations where it's really needed. Could you be more specific please as to which situations?

[Kam-Ekaze]

In case anyone cares to try this build, I've been testing damage differences. Rapiers seem to come out on top for the most part and I might just adjust the build to be more rapier-friendly. Entirely possibly taking out the third monk level as it becomes unecessary while wielding rapiers.

One of my concerns with using non-monk weapons is the loss of 1 BAB, which I guess at level 20 makes the difference between an extra attack. Would people recommend sticking to handwraps for dps for the sake of one extra BAB or stay with rapiers for the better crit rate?

[Symar-FangofLloth]

One of my concerns with using non-monk weapons is the loss of 1 BAB, which I guess at level 20 makes the difference between an extra attack. Would people recommend sticking to handwraps for dps for the sake of one extra BAB or stay with rapiers for the better crit rate?

They recently frontloaded all the extra attacks.
The difference between 19 and 20 BAB is attack speed, though I don't know the difference there.

[Ninetoes]

Entirely possibly taking out the third monk level as it becomes unecessary while wielding rapiers.

This should have been your plan initially. Monk is a class that you can't half-ass. Either splash it for AC and Evasion, or go whole-hog. 3 levels of monk grants you NOTHING that 2 levels doesn't grant. Many people see fists of light at 3 and go "oh cool, self healing", but that's just not how it plays out.

[Rhysem]

I can see 3 monk if you're stretching for the water-air-water SP discount finisher. You've got 2 charges of meditate to get you the ki you need to throw it even if using non-monk weapons -- you can always switch weapons to a monk weapon and fire stance (free now days, no waste of enhancement points!) for a bit of ki before a rest/buff cycle.

A better question is not what 3 monk grants, but what 16 pal gives over 15 pal. The answer is +1 bab, +1 fort, a third 2nd level spell, and some SP. Monk 3 gives +1 bab, still mind, light/finishers, and 10' movement.

I'm looking at running this sort of build myself on a reincarnate and am looking rogue 1/monk 3/pal 16. For me that 3 monk is a simple choice. Pal 17 gives +1 bab and spell points. Monk 3 gives me the same he gets. No big contest there -- give me the SP discount for the two casters I usually run with.

Besides if I (or the OP) later regrets 3 monk I can always +1 reincarnate to purge it.

[Ninetoes]

You know, I hadn't thought about the stances all being free now. The 20% concealment and 25% SP reduction are way more attainable since then.

I still don't like monk splash for anything other than Ev/Wis bonus, but I'm also biased because I love pure monk so much

[Kam-Ekaze]

Courtesy of a guildmate, I have been feeding numbers using information found here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=201535 through this tool here http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/ddo/ to compare rapiers against kamas and handwraps.

The information found was pretty interesting actually. I was testing rapiers at 19 BAB while handwraps/kamas at 20 BAB (following monk bonus BAB) it shows that while rapiers come out on top against enemies with under 32 AC, handwraps creep their way up and come out on top after that point. Kamas show similar data, but out of the two handwraps come out on top.

Granted paladins rely heavily on crits for burst damage, I will likely continue using rapiers 90% of the time, and keep a set of handwraps for undead (uncrittable) and high AC foes.

I didn't factor in any other buffs that might increase to-hit chance. Also, it's very interesting how Power Attack takes a deep dive from being helpful to a hinderance depending on monster AC.

To factor in for this knowledge, I will probably switch TWD for oTWF for dual rapiers (both feats seem just about as helpful as each other) and keep the third levle of monk as planned. As stated, if things go south, there's always greater reincarnation. I will still take iCrit: Piercing for the rapiers since they will act as my burst weapons.

At level 10, My intimidate is at an unbuffed 30 and even asa halfling seems to have 99% return to most all level content (on elite).

Looking forward to level 14 when I can pull my raiments out of my cache.

[Kam-Ekaze]

I can see 3 monk if you're stretching for the water-air-water SP discount finisher. You've got 2 charges of meditate to get you the ki you need to throw it even if using non-monk weapons -- you can always switch weapons to a monk weapon and fire stance (free now days, no waste of enhancement points!) for a bit of ki before a rest/buff cycle.

A better question is not what 3 monk grants, but what 16 pal gives over 15 pal. The answer is +1 bab, +1 fort, a third 2nd level spell, and some SP. Monk 3 gives +1 bab, still mind, light/finishers, and 10' movement.

I'm looking at running this sort of build myself on a reincarnate and am looking rogue 1/monk 3/pal 16. For me that 3 monk is a simple choice. Pal 17 gives +1 bab and spell points. Monk 3 gives me the same he gets. No big contest there -- give me the SP discount for the two casters I usually run with.

Besides if I (or the OP) later regrets 3 monk I can always +1 reincarnate to purge it.

I've still been rocking this build, level 17 now. Next level my split will be 14/2/2 which will finally score me zeal and holy sword which are the highlights of the paladin class for me.

AC is very impressive. I hit 74 AC raid buffed at level 16 the other night in VoD, and it's only going to keep raising as I get more gear and levels.

I will definitely be taking the third monk level for 19, aside from still mind, light/finishers and 10' movement, 3rd level of monk grants the extra 10% healing amplification enhancement which is better than anything 16 paladin would get me.

I ended up taking iCrit:Pierce instead of slashing as rapiers have been my weapon of choice granted the higher crit range and the synergy with the paladin class. However, I have a set of dual vorpal kamas for other occasions which will greatly benefit from zeal + wind stance speed boosts, add in fighter haste when necessary.

This baby has kept above the AC threshold most of her lifetime, even in vale now, I'm not even turning CE on and just roll around with PA 90% of the time, unless situation calls for it. UMD even without full ranks I'm able to get 5th level shield wands for the most part which is a nice perk. They're about 80% success chance only, but make up for the 5 minute duration. 1st level shield wands are no-fail with GH.

DPS was better than my expectations. I'm no frenzied barb and clearly the focus was never dps on this build, but divine sacrifice, coupled with smites critting for roughly 200-250 at the moment are holding me steady even when I want to hate tank.

Handwraps will not work for this build because divine sacrifice and smite evil both benefit too greatly from dual weapons and unlike monk attacks, paladin specials only strike the once with wraps. Interestingly, for 100% fort enemies, dual kamas comes out on top for dps (w/ divine sacrifice and smite evil, otherwise handwraps do) so I'm going to make the attempt and long grind for 2 sets of GS weaps. Rapiers for crit friendlies, and kamas for non-crittables. I may end up swapping out dodge and TWD eventually for another 2 toughness feats if I feel my AC is good enough and I'd like a bigger health pool.

At lvl 17, without shroud gear I'm sitting at just under 400, which is a little low to my liking, but more than enough for any content I'm currently running while leveling.

[bunkerhugger]

You might check out this build -

http://caffeinated.guildportal.com/G...opicID=8687185

A bit gear/time intensive, but great for ideas.

[Kam-Ekaze]

You might check out this build -

http://caffeinated.guildportal.com/G...opicID=8687185

A bit gear/time intensive, but great for ideas.

Unfortunately I don't have access to your private forum =\

Though by your sig I'm assuming its 18/2 pala/rog split? I considered that, but I prefered the monk and fighter splashes for my own. Still would like to see your builds, please feel free to post it here or start a new thread =]

[bunkerhugger]

Sorry, didn't realize that was a restricted forum.
The build is from Spyderwolf, of the guild Caffeine. It looks something like this:

36 Point Build

Base-----LVL----stat----exp stat-----aps----stance----tome---final
Str 15---4--------6-----------------------------------4--------3------32
Dex 15------------7---------2-------------1------------------3-------28
Con 12------------6-----------------------1--------4----------3------26
Int 10----------------------------------------------------------3-------13
Wis 14---1--------6----------2------------1------------------2-------26
Cha 15------------7----------1------------2------------------3-------28


umd
11 ranks
4 gh
1 prayer
6 shroud
9 cha mod
5 titan gloves
36 total

HP
528

AC
10 base
9 dex mod
4 shield
5 deflection
4 icy
3 titan ring
6 aura
5 nat
4 insight
8 wis mod
1 dodge feat
1 twd feat
2 set bonus
4 stance
8 ac bracer
1 alchem bonus
1 centered bonus (you dont acutally have to be centered for it)
1 haste
2 recitation
78 total ac with self buffs and pa on
83 ce

gear
goggles - vod goggles
helm- min2 (pos sp,earth hp,pos hp/earth hp) wiz 6, umd 1, 35 hp
neck - concordant oppo (neg hp,pos sp,neg/pos sp) 10 hp, 150 sp,5 umd,+6 wisdom
trinket - bloodstone
cloak - bards cloak ( cha 6)
belt - dos belt (con 6 gfl)
ring1 - titan ring
ring2 - dos ring(str 6 cha 1 dex 2)
glove - epic spec glvoes
boots - Von 6 boots(anchoring while tanking horoth)
bracers - epic bracers of deftness.
armor - icy rainments
weapon1 - min 2 (acid,good bursts,insight 4)
weapon2 - min 2 (acid,good bursts, wis 2)

feats

1 - khop
1(human) - PA
3 - ranger past life feat purchasable
6 - twf
9 - twd
12 - combat exp
15 - itwf
18 - gtwf

1(monk) - toughness
2(monk) - dodge


enhancements

paladin armor boost 1
unyielding sovereignty
follower of the sovereign host
human adapt dex
human greater adapt con
way of the patient tortoise 1
paladin courage of good 1
paladin bulwark of good 4
paladin focus of good 1
paladin resistance of good 3
paladin divine righteousness 1
paladin divine sacrifice 1
paladin exalted smite 1
paladin extra lay on hands 3
paladin extra smite evil 2
paladin defender of siberys 3
racial toughness 2
monk concentration 1
paladin cha 3
monk wis 1
paladin toughness 2
paladin divine might 3
paladin extra turning 1