Ddo Is Too Hard

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

The pre-set classes are horrible and newbie-unfriendly. While they shouldn't be optimized, they should be easy to play.

And finally, people who scoff at making the game more "newbie-friendly" are part of the problem, not the solution. Making mistakes is a way to learn, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll learn the correct solution and not a flawed workaround that'll cause MORE problems in the future.

I think a large part has to do with those awful preset characters Turbine has put in. I wish they'd just convert them to what Tihocan has done with his revisited path builds. If they could explain per level, why they chose to put build points in certain places and skill points and feats...ect ect, that would help newer players a TON.

I also think that Korthos should be slightly redone to let players know about stacking bonuses and fortification. For example, maybe one of the quests can offer a light fortification belt as a reward and a hint icon can explain why fortification is important. Same thing could be done with stacking bonuses.

I had a bit of background with PnP so it was not difficult for me to understand the mechanics of the game...but learning these mechanics take a long time.

[Galeria]

I will agree that it's hard to learn this game without help.

I was lucky that I had my husband to explain how things worked and review my gear for duplicates but it still took 3 characters almost to cap before I started to understand how the choices I made at character selection really affected my ability to play.

I think the devs probably feel like people won't bother to take the time to read up how things work (how many people ever actually talked to and read the advice of the master trainers on Korthos?) but there ought to be more options that teach (if you want them.)

It would be nice if there was some sort of NPC in Korthos who would inspect your gear and display duplicate properties with an explanation of why they don't stack and point out some weaknesses.

"You might want to consider wearing a fortification item if you find one. Fortification is what keeps you from taking extra damage when an enemy scores a critical hit on you."

"You are wearing a lesser false life item(Belt) and a false life item (Necklace). Only the highest false life item will be counted, so consider replacing your belt with something more useful."

"You are not wearing any items that increase your concentration. This is important for a (monk, wizard, etc) because it allows you to store more ki/not be interrupted if you take damage while casting a spell."

"You are wearing two strength items. Bracers (+1 strength) and gloves (+2 strength.) Only the higher value is actually being applied. Consider replacing your bracers with something more useful."


Another idea would be to add a tab to the inventory screen that ONLY displays list style the items you are wearing with an orange or some other distinctive color border on items that are not being counted because they duplicate something else you are wearing.

[jcoffey]

Of course DDO would copy WoW or any other MMO out there.

WoW and some other MMO's blow DDO out of the water with subs.

The mighty Buck comes first,period.

DDO is a great game until end game but then you are done.What is the point of running Epic content when you just end up running the same content you just ran to get to 20?

Like others have told me the fun in DDO is the journey to 20 and I totally agree.
The problem for a lot is noone wants to take the same journey more than a couple times especially if it takes more gas every time.=P

I remember when several of my friends first started playin DDO,they made funky builds and it was hard for them.After working it out with them and showing them decent builds they loved it.(until 20 anyway,lol)

[NaturalHazard]

I didn't find DDO that hard, ive still got my first charactor, got him to level 20, 28 point build, run him through epics, no LR's, even tanked suulo, in vod tod, horoth and the epic CAD way more than I thought I would be able to accomplish. Will be tring the charactor soon, but yeah made some mistakes and the charactor was way outdated but not broken.

Things that helped me some, I played BG 1-2, icewind dale (lol) NWN1 and 2, so had some expriance with the d20 system and some of the spells/class/ and stuff, basic system, a lot of things are different, but I had more of a clue than most people.

Second I had a lot of help and info from the forums, I guess most mmo's you just pick up and play your charactor from scratch with little research? Playing those other D&D based games I learnt about the concept of planning out your charactors build before you play it.

[Zachski]

I had a bit of background with PnP so it was not difficult for me to understand the mechanics of the game...but learning these mechanics take a long time.

The ironic thing is, between someone new to D&D and someone who's an expert at at the PnP version and is coming to DDO for the first time, you can generally expect the PnP Expert to roll up a worse first character due to the fact that DDO is an entirely different beholder than 3.5

[SirValentine]

The ironic thing is, between someone new to D&D and someone who's an expert at at the PnP version and is coming to DDO for the first time, you can generally expect the PnP Expert to roll up a worse first character due to the fact that DDO is an entirely different beholder than 3.5

So true. My first Cleric life.

Max out Wis? Too expensive with that point-buy stuff, spread all those stats around, 14s everywhere!

Metamagic feats? Those suck, no way I'm going to blow a feat on that. I need stuff like MentalToughness and SkillFocus:Concentration!

Though Clerics are so amazing that even a gimp Cleric can muddle through 20 raid completions and enough Epics to buy a True Heart of Wood.

[Urist]

I have a Pale Master. I feel comfortable posting in this thread.

I guess most mmo's you just pick up and play your charactor from scratch with little research? Playing those other D&D based games I learnt about the concept of planning out your charactors build before you play it.

IME when most people start a new game, they just go ahead and play the game. I am one such person. Research and planning generally come into it only when a roadblock is hit.

In DDO, it's only by the mid-levels that any real roadblocks occur. That's a lot of invested time for many players (I've been playing over a year, and level 12 is my highest character), and if they've bought BtC gear (eg. bags) for their gimped toon which now needs rerolling... well, Turbine just light their cigars with $100 bills and laugh.

What I'd like to see is a free, or very low-cost (max 100TP) "rebirth" option, which lets you recreate your character at level 1 (or 4 for vets). Pretty much like a True Reincarnation (keep name, inventory, etc.), but without the feats, extra build points or increased XP requirements. A False Reincarnation, if you will.

[Such755]

There is something in what the OP is saying.
People come here and try to multiclass into crazy sh*t, but is this the game's fault? Hell no.
People need to research, think, investigate before they attempt anything. When I came here, sure I made a few mistakes making a fighter with high dexterity for both melee and archery, but I learned very fast, I looked at the wiki, forum, compendium. Everything is simple if you don't complicate it yourself.
If a new player wants to learn, he'll learn, and do things right. (I give myself as an example)

ALTHOUGH I would very much like to see a warning system that warns people when they try to make stupid class combinations, stat combinations etc...

[Galeria]

What I'd like to see is a free, or very low-cost (max 100TP) "rebirth" option, which lets you recreate your character at level 1 (or 4 for vets). Pretty much like a True Reincarnation (keep name, inventory, etc.), but without the feats, extra build points or increased XP requirements. A False Reincarnation, if you will.

Actually, this is already IN the game, it's called a Lesser Reincarnation. But it costs 895 TP for a Lesser Heart of Wood (or 627 if you buy on sale.)

I think it's a fair price to rebuild a character and retain the leveling you've already done.

There's already a free option- you can delete and start over. Mail all your stuff to your other toon. Or buy a new character slot for 595 TP. Already plenty of options.

[pipboy1]

Actually, this is already IN the game, it's called a Lesser Reincarnation. But it costs 895 TP for a Lesser Heart of Wood (or 627 if you buy on sale.)

I think it's a fair price to rebuild a character and retain the leveling you've already done.

There's already a free option- you can delete and start over. Mail all your stuff to your other toon. Or buy a new character slot for 595 TP. Already plenty of options.

Galeria notice two things in Urist's post...BtC and 100 TP

I have a Pale Master. I feel comfortable posting in this thread.

That's a lot of invested time for many players (I've been playing over a year, and level 12 is my highest character), and if they've bought BtC gear (eg. bags) for their gimped toon which now needs rerolling... well, Turbine just light their cigars with $100 bills and laugh.

What I'd like to see is a free, or very low-cost (max 100TP) "rebirth" option, which lets you recreate your character at level 1 (or 4 for vets). Pretty much like a True Reincarnation (keep name, inventory, etc.), but without the feats, extra build points or increased XP requirements. A False Reincarnation, if you will.

You cant mail BtC nor is lesser reincarnate that cheap.

[pipboy1]

Well I guess I am no longer a complete noob. I am still noobish lol after playing this game for a while. It is not hard, but is irritating to realize "how hard it is" to learn the bugs. The AI is so stupid is one problem. I mean what would be a point of a Dwarven Defender when critters just walk right through you when they feel like it.

Junk feats and spells is another on character building. When building a character the only when to find answers on whether or not something really works is trial and error. This is not good when you can not just redo your mistake without sinking a lot of time or cash in it to fix it. Stuff just not working as you would think it was intended is the biggest problem.

Playing in character at all like in PnP translates to 0 in this game. Alignments are there just for item selection and restriction of bard/pallies mutliclasses. Why in the hell is there no evil alignment still? What do you think 13 year olds are more likely to do evil acts because of their alignments? Versus playing a pale master?

And as for an argument about bad mutliclass choices...well you know DDO really has screwed up the whole idea of multiclass caster levels. Where are the special prestige classes that allow you can casting levels as if you were still taking levels of the caster level? For example Arcane Trickster, if you take would take the trickster prestige class you would get sneak attacks and arcane casting levels increased.

So anyway for someone who actually plays DnD, and not some grind fest game called DDO then it can be difficult to understand that this game sucks on representing the PnP. So when you say poor multiclass or not understanding the DDO mechanics that does not mean the player does not understand DnD mechanics.

Many players as stated in this thread that have run the quest a million times..well good for you. You know someone who plays Donkey Kong a million times might say the game is easy as well, and trying to give more lives to the player is stupid. Why? Because it took a lot time for them to learn how to beat Donkey Kong levels over and over. Sorry I do not really care to listen for advice from people who spend every minute playing this game in real life to rate how hard it is. Might as well ask a millionaire's opinion on what is real work.

[Urist]

Actually, this is already IN the game, it's called a Lesser Reincarnation. But it costs 895 TP for a Lesser Heart of Wood (or 627 if you buy on sale.)

I think it's a fair price to rebuild a character and retain the leveling you've already done.

I never meant that you would retain your XP. That is why I compared it to TRing, rather than Lesser or Greater.
The low price suggested was because it was, essentially, a giant "reset" button for your character; starting them again from zero XP. Like rerolling, but keeping any items you've ground out. Or at a bare minimum, BtC items purchased from the store should certainly be retained.

There are plenty of options, but IMO none of them are yet the right option, at least for the newbie gimp.

[Zachski]

Essentially, it's kinda hard to learn through trial and error when you have to pay either several hours or significant amounts of cash in order to fix your mistake... and even then, you can't guarantee that your fix isn't another mistake, even WITH research.

Which is why I oppose players who support trial and error learning.

Trial and error is not a significantly educational way of learning. It is very easy to learn a wrong way to do something and succeed anyways through sheer perseverance, not realizing that you learned a wrong way.

Practice does not make perfect. Practicing right makes perfect. Knowing how to practice right isn't something that's innate.

[Jsbeer]

Essentially, it's kinda hard to learn through trial and error when you have to pay either several hours or significant amounts of cash in order to fix your mistake... and even then, you can't guarantee that your fix isn't another mistake, even WITH research.

Which is why I oppose players who support trial and error learning.

Trial and error is not a significantly educational way of learning. It is very easy to learn a wrong way to do something and succeed anyways through sheer perseverance, not realizing that you learned a wrong way.

Practice does not make perfect. Practicing right makes perfect. Knowing how to practice right isn't something that's innate.

More or less in agreement especially for newer players. DDO character building is pretty complicated and very few people get their first character built well. And a badly built character can be appallingly painful to play at higher levels.

Consequently, I would strongly support fixing the b**p b***p b***p standard builds for new players. Honestly, how hard can this be?

A link which was viewable in-game of UP-TO-DATE tips would be nice too.....

[011775715]

not everyone have friends to play with. and people don't really post anything when they are online and if they do you don't have the pre quest for it. its even harder if you don't have gear and even harder when you cant even farm for it when you are squishy to farm it since nobody cares about you. am I wrong? its not that hard if you have friends to play with but not everyone have that luxury. so yes it can hard.

[Memnir]

[Hobgoblin]

[sithhound]

Necro-posts are always kind of sad. You scroll through pages and pages, and all these people are gone.

[TimtheGreat89]

Originally I was responding in a thread to this thread

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=233139

And I felt it was necessary to vent some frustration. Not sure if anyone else feels this way.

It led to this post paraphrased in regards to broken builds/then Froobs complaining about how "hard the game is"

It is typically:
Hi, I am a new player...with 28 pt build or drow (which makes them think they know what they are doing)...started playing 2 weeks ago. I want to nuke and heal so here is my build : 11 Favored Soul/5 SOR / 4 Wizard.

Notice that this build lacks heal/blade barrier and haste/fireball from the arcane side. It also has a job that you can buy (FVS) or earn with 2500 favor. Well this is where I get confused. If you want to buy FVS, thats fine and cool, but also buy 32 pt build. If you do not want to buy FVS...well you will earn 32 pt build BEFORE you earn FVS.

But long story short, what you get is really broken build that can not do anything at all. So then there are posts made (by vets) that such build will not work...so then the poster then says "what if I have 6 months worth of greensteel items and 50 mill worth of other assorted gear and extremely rare raid drops...it will THEN work . Well if you have those resources and skill...then YOU can make such a build work. But you are then successful INSPITE of your build...not BECAUSE of your build. Another fun thing to see is the typical build with 6 +4 tomes and extremely rare gear AND then it has to be a TRed twice toon...to work.

I could see Shade, ANthios, MaddMatt etc... running a SOR with 16 Total CHR and meleeing stuff and due to their Resources and skill...They could make it work. But such things are not recommended to "new players".

I played this game when it first came out, and then took like a 2 year break...then came back. It saddens me to see people (new players) make broken builds then complain to Turbine that the "GAME IS TOO HARD" since thier toon can not complete anything. Then Turbine rewards the "Froob" with an "easy button".

It just is hard for me to stomach this and watch the best MMO out there (have played most of them) get ruined by people unwilling to listen/learn from more experienced people.

There are a lot of complicated builds in the game that I too can't get my head around. Just create a build that will be easy for you to use, such as a Fighter Tank/DPS build to get you started. Then once you learn from other people's builds and how they work, including the FVS build you're describing then you'll do just fine in the game. Mental note, don't start with a build that's too complicated for you. Just start with something easy, and go from there.

I hope this helps.

[Cordovan]

necro.