Ddo Is Too Hard

[gott_ist_tot]

The new player logs in to forums. The new player sees a lot of hate against
predefined builds. The new player starts his own toon. The new player loses.

Fix the predefined builds!

The new player clicks the LFM for Tear of Dhakkan. The new player
does not need to read what gott_ist_tot says about shrine accessibility
and the mob spawning room. The new player loses.

Fix the new player!

Actually, I found myself posting Tear LFM's. I got used to them not
listening to me, I have a shrine/village rant ready to copy/paste.
I *love* when after a wipe they join a few days later, and this time behave.


But some just won't listen. We can just hope they're not in the majority.
If they are, DDO is going to be dumbed down more and more.

If all that is needed to access VoN5 is running 1-4 once then why
in the Earth getting blown/telekine(ted?) in Orphne doesn't make you lose?
I probaby hate this one Update3 thing the most. It's a sign of bad changes.

[MeliCat]

DDO certainly is one of the fastest MMOs to reach "max" level.

But max level is kind of meaningless anyway here really isn't it? It's the items and the twinking... and the character creation. Items which take months.

(except to vets who have all the ing :-/)


Cool that you have both a)some space in your RL and b)someone in RL to play with.



I have a work colleague I was asking questions of as I've never played an MMO before. Told him he may not like it 'cos lots of WOW players find it too hard. Ha! Gauntlet thrown. His third and main toon is level 9. He'll probably be a better played than I too.

[Zippo]

But was far as VOOB or FOOB (not sure what FOOB is), I think it is more of a mindset/attitude.

VOOB vs FROOB:

VOOB = a vet who has been gone for a year or two due to real life (As it turns out there is such a thing. Who knew!), money issues, etc and decided to come back paying his $15 a month but due to the changes in game since then might be a bit behind the power curve

FROOB can be 1 of a few things. FROOB in this case could be a returning vet who came back because they went Free to Play or a new person to the game who is here because the game went Free to Play and in both cases typically not paying anything to play.

Seems as though you would be a VOOB based on the post I quoted

[elricken]

I have been playing since midsummer, (don't believe the join date, different account) and I really really enjoy this game. One of the reasons is the amount of thought you have to put into your builds. This came as no adjustment to me as I came over from D2 which I played for years. The same rules apply, know what you are doing when you roll your character (took me awhile to learn the importance of the vitality stat), and only make advanced builds when you really know what you are doing. My curiosity is then how is the game becoming easier as opposed to the "good old days"? It still seems to me that you really only have a couple of choices when you screw up a build, either TR (at a spanking xp load), lesser tr, or reroll completely. Not really easy considering you have to spend like 20 bucks or grind epic quests for a TR. Of course I am a cheapass and hate paying more than the minimum for anything, so yes 20 bucks is painful at least to me. Those consequences seem enough I wouldn't want it to be all that hard to fix/remake your toon, especially coming from Diablo where there was no respec and unless you had tons of experience in fast grinding xp you would spends months leveling up again (99 max levels to be acheived, it takes insane effort).

Edit: I know my post is messy and semi non-linear but I had lot of thoughts on this thread and am afraid it might have come out a bit jumbled so bear with.

[MeliCat]

I have been playing since midsummer, (don't believe the join date, different account) and I really really enjoy this game. One of the reasons is the amount of thought you have to put into your builds. This came as no adjustment to me as I came over from D2 which I played for years. The same rules apply, know what you are doing when you roll your character (took me awhile to learn the importance of the vitality stat),

Woot! Yeah the D2 likeness is what got me in. I have a number of RL friends who would *love* DDO for this very reason - but they have no time. (And one is a social recluse... I have to convince him that yes, you can solo almost all of this and he *might* play...)

I used to like being an enchantress and running around behind a necromancer... that was cool. Funny how I like playing my bard here.

[elricken]

Woot! Yeah the D2 likeness is what got me in. I have a number of RL friends who would *love* DDO for this very reason - but they have no time. (And one is a social recluse... I have to convince him that yes, you can solo almost all of this and he *might* play...)

I used to like being an enchantress and running around behind a necromancer... that was cool. Funny how I like playing my bard here.

I never did make an enchantress, seemed like if would be fun as hell to listen to your group as the sorc melees things down .

[krud]

I kind of enjoy all the froobishness that is going around. It reminds me what it was like when I joined in 2006. Lots of newbs/noobs, plenty of lfms on the board, populated servers, etc. I take it as a sign that the game is being refreshed. It's been so long since we've had shenanigans like we now see. People were getting so accustomed to flawless runs without any newbs/noobs around that things were getting quite stale, imo. Let them learn as we did. At least they can reincarnate their mistakes now.

[MeliCat]

I never did make an enchantress, seemed like if would be fun as hell to listen to your group as the sorc melees things down .

I play with an intimi sorc sometimes (Khyber). That almost qualifies.

(I feel so redundant playing with 2nd TR vets who know everything about the game... but I do learn heaps... )

[SlayerInFlorida]

You may want to change the title to "character building is too complicated". DDO is not hard. Otherwise, I think you're right. The default builds could be a lot better, and there should be in game advices on character building.

Great point - make the default builds better and there will be less complaining.

[MeliCat]

I kind of enjoy all the froobishness that is going around. It reminds me what it was like when I joined in 2006. Lots of newbs/noobs, plenty of lfms on the board, populated servers, etc. I take it as a sign that the game is being refreshed. It's been so long since we've had shenanigans like we now see. People were getting so accustomed to flawless runs without any newbs/noobs around that things were getting quite stale, imo. Let them learn as we did. At least they can reincarnate their mistakes now.

yay! nice to have a positive post on newbie silliness... +1 to you


Occasionally when I pug I put in the lfm "TRs not allowed" or "TRs please be non self-sufficient". How am I going to learn to properly heal in chaos otherwise?

And sometimes I'm running with a vet and they'll apologise that a quest has taken 40mins instead of 20mins - huh? Do you have any idea how wonderful it is to learn things slowly, explore a bit and *enjoy* *the* *view*? Vets forget. :P


A sense of fun is definitely needed in *whatever* part of the game... And I'm grateful to my guildies who just find it funny each time I die - or I declare at the end of a quest "Please note that I did NOT die that time..."

[JOTMON]

It's easy to make a mistake (as easy as in any game), but the problem is, its **** hard to fix those mistakes.

There's nothing wrong making a mistake when creating a new character. It's how it is, it's how you learn. Noone is born as allknowning hardcore vet. The problem is that it's hard and super expensive to fix mistakes. This is the main dark side of DDO.

Make respec/reincarnate easier/cheaper, not quests.

I think we have all been here
..DDO was just PnP/DnD computerized..right.....
Soon discovered not all was as it seems.


TR/LR gives you an opportunity to fix a lot of core problems, most build problems can be compensated with gear, and if it doesnt look like its fixable or worth levelling up, you can allways use another storage toon.

My first toon out of the gate was a 28pt Trapmonkey Rogue with lots of int and hardly any con, no money with jaw dropped looking at AH prices for rapiers. Specced all the trap feats and enhancements. Never had to try twice on any trap, but I was squishy too squishy, add some ranger/fighter levels, even considered wizzy splash for some minor arcane stuff... etc etc.. thinking back to the old PnP stuff as a kid. I balanced him out as I levelled(12Rog/6Ran/2Ftr), and he became a decent toon, TR1 made some changes (12Ran/6Mon/2Rog)and some more trial and error, looking at TR2 to change some more stuff around..Great thing about this game is we can just keep changing stuff, or build another toon and try something else.

[Happosaai]

BTW: I don't have experience with any other MMO (though lately I have been interested enough in the new star wars MMO to at least check it out when it's released) so I really have nothing to compare to. Is DDO really so much more difficult than another MMO, like WOW for example?

Aten

Yes, DDO is a lot harder than a lot of the other MMOs out there. Especially WoW... I'm a recovering WoW addict who came back to DDO with some friends.

In WoW, you can turn auto-attack on and walk away from the computer... not die and level your character. I've done this...

[pSINNa]

you are not supposed to win every time in this game

there is satisfication in learning from your mistakes

unfortunately, many have forgotten this or are sore losers

Hurrah! Thank god someone agree's with me on this. One of the most satisfying moments in my recent gaming history has been to finally give Sorjek a dose of his own medicine. The two previous failed attempts to wipe him and his mephits from the face of the earth only served to fuel my drive to beat him into submission. Having an all guild group support me in my drive for revenge, cheering me on as i finally satisfied my vindictive bloodlust will always stick out in my mind as a premier gaming moment

In regards to the 'broken builds' and the 'froobs' that play them, each toon i've built has had some purpose in mind, and not all of them have been suitable for top end raid use.

That being said, not all my ddo time is spent in top end raids, each of them has been useful in some way, shape or form, even if that is for a very narrow area or type of quest in the game, and each one has taught me something about the game.

I will echo a sentiment i've seen in this thread to this extent, let the game change the way you play, NOT vice versa please.

Ghallanda Server: Revelationz: Coitfluff, Coitrippr, Coitburner, Coitshredder, Coithealz, Luciforge, Rosecannon

[MeliCat]

I carefully make sure that any toon I work on is going to be suitable for end game.


But I don't really have the items yet (or the confidence) to run them up there yet.




Oh yeah... and +1 to the OP for correct use of "too" rather than "to" in the title.

/grammar niggler gets back in their closet...

[ghostegg]

Focus. DDO is more a party game than a solo game. Some builds can solo many quests maybe all, using a party as peons not as partners, but most design to be a eficient in party and have fun and respect for it.

[LordPiglet]

It's easy to make a mistake (as easy as in any game), but the problem is, its **** hard to fix those mistakes.

There's nothing wrong making a mistake when creating a new character. It's how it is, it's how you learn. Noone is born as allknowning hardcore vet. The problem is that it's hard and super expensive to fix mistakes. This is the main dark side of DDO.

Make respec/reincarnate easier/cheaper, not quests.

QFT

I played PnP D&D and play another MMO. This other one we can respec with ease. I've directed a couple other people to try DDO but warm then to check the forums and read around about the classes and build first.

You can do feat exchanges, you can do your enhancements, but the only way to redo your skills is through a lesser or greater heart. I would be much happier if there was a free lesser heart awarded via a quest or some way to just redo skills.

[KKDragonLord]

I would be much happier if there was a free lesser heart awarded via a quest or some way to just redo skills.

maybe by giving Fred a mate called Frida who would accept syberis or khyber shards to respec skillsz

[Club'in]

I don´t think the gameplay is really harder than in other games.

But I have to agree that the character building is too hard, or too complicated.
Personally, I don´t like to study forums before I can even try to play for myself, nor do I like to copy some character build everyone thinks best.
I like to find out stuff for myself. I like to try out what works for me and what doesn´t.
And this doesn´t work in this game.
You have to plan your character from lvl 1 to lvl 20 before you even log in for the first time. If you are no expert on character builds, you will probably build a character which is of little to no use in end game.

Or all in all it´s the "metagaming" that is required in many parts of the game.
For me, it takes a lot of fun out of the game, when I am required to read about what will happen at what point in a quest. For example, you can´t do "Church and the cult" if you don´t know that the endboss is a vampire and how to beat him.

I would really like to respectfully disagree with this assessment. Yes, it's harsh. But my oldest character (a drow ranger who is now a ranger/monk) has been through 3 level cap bumps, and pretty much 4 complete course changes throughout her lifetime. When the level cap was ten, we could get away with low con characters. But starting with the Restless Isles release, and the Desert, her low con really started to present problems. Then they released the Deepwoods Sniper PRE, at the same time as a level cap bump, so I respec'd her to try it out. It totally sucked, so she stayed parked for a while until I could gain the shards and the plat to swap out a ton of feats in order to pick up Tempest. Then things totally changed again, new stuff came out, new possibilities, new roadblocks (the Minos helm lost it's Toughness ability, which forced me to come up with a plan to pick up the feat). Consequently I ended up spending her last ability point on Intelligence, ate a +2 Intel tome, and used two monk levels to add a ton of AC, Combat Expertise and Toughness, Level 18 feat to add Oversized Two Weapon fighting (which of course didn't even exist, none of this stuff did, when the character was originally rolled up). You do not have to completely plan out your character through level 20 before even starting the game. Major exaggeration there.

And why are people so afraid of failing a quest the first time through? Yes, sometimes you meet an insurmountable barrier because of your party mix or what not. So try again! Learn, adapt, overcome. yeeesh

[Club'in]

After more than 3 years I still make mistakes. What's your secret?

He admitted to making mistakes, but didn't consider any of them to be character breakers. That's all he was saying.

[Visty]

VOOB vs FROOB:

VOOB = a vet who has been gone for a year or two due to real life (As it turns out there is such a thing. Who knew!), money issues, etc and decided to come back paying his $15 a month but due to the changes in game since then might be a bit behind the power curve

FROOB can be 1 of a few things. FROOB in this case could be a returning vet who came back because they went Free to Play or a new person to the game who is here because the game went Free to Play and in both cases typically not paying anything to play.

Seems as though you would be a VOOB based on the post I quoted

he said FOOB, not FROOB