Ddo Is Too Hard

[Bacab]

Originally I was responding in a thread to this thread

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=233139

And I felt it was necessary to vent some frustration. Not sure if anyone else feels this way.

It led to this post paraphrased in regards to broken builds/then Froobs complaining about how "hard the game is"

It is typically:
Hi, I am a new player...with 28 pt build or drow (which makes them think they know what they are doing)...started playing 2 weeks ago. I want to nuke and heal so here is my build : 11 Favored Soul/5 SOR / 4 Wizard.

Notice that this build lacks heal/blade barrier and haste/fireball from the arcane side. It also has a job that you can buy (FVS) or earn with 2500 favor. Well this is where I get confused. If you want to buy FVS, thats fine and cool, but also buy 32 pt build. If you do not want to buy FVS...well you will earn 32 pt build BEFORE you earn FVS.

But long story short, what you get is really broken build that can not do anything at all. So then there are posts made (by vets) that such build will not work...so then the poster then says "what if I have 6 months worth of greensteel items and 50 mill worth of other assorted gear and extremely rare raid drops...it will THEN work . Well if you have those resources and skill...then YOU can make such a build work. But you are then successful INSPITE of your build...not BECAUSE of your build. Another fun thing to see is the typical build with 6 +4 tomes and extremely rare gear AND then it has to be a TRed twice toon...to work.

I could see Shade, ANthios, MaddMatt etc... running a SOR with 16 Total CHR and meleeing stuff and due to their Resources and skill...They could make it work. But such things are not recommended to "new players".

I played this game when it first came out, and then took like a 2 year break...then came back. It saddens me to see people (new players) make broken builds then complain to Turbine that the "GAME IS TOO HARD" since thier toon can not complete anything. Then Turbine rewards the "Froob" with an "easy button".

It just is hard for me to stomach this and watch the best MMO out there (have played most of them) get ruined by people unwilling to listen/learn from more experienced people.

[Zereth501]

You may want to change the title to "character building is too complicated". DDO is not hard. Otherwise, I think you're right. The default builds could be a lot better, and there should be in game advices on character building.

[Atenhotep]

I've been playing D&D since 1980. What got me started was a friend's older brother had been interested in this weird game called Dungeons & Dragons and when I asked him about it he said I wasn't smart enough to understand. Oh, it was on!

I've been playing D&D so long I completely forget that it might actually be hard to understand. Is it possible the rest of us playing DDO are looking at it from a similar perspective?

BTW: I don't have experience with any other MMO (though lately I have been interested enough in the new star wars MMO to at least check it out when it's released) so I really have nothing to compare to. Is DDO really so much more difficult than another MMO, like WOW for example?

Aten

[Kriogen]

It's easy to make a mistake (as easy as in any game), but the problem is, its **** hard to fix those mistakes.

There's nothing wrong making a mistake when creating a new character. It's how it is, it's how you learn. Noone is born as allknowning hardcore vet. The problem is that it's hard and super expensive to fix mistakes. This is the main dark side of DDO.

Make respec/reincarnate easier/cheaper, not quests.

[Atenhotep]

BTW: This one sentence I don't agree with:

It just is hard for me to stomach this and watch the best MMO out there (have played most of them) get ruined by people unwilling to listen/learn from more experienced people.

I just don't know where these people are who won't listen. I have Aten's Raid Train - 5 raids in a row, 2x/week. It's not a guild thing, its a LFM PUG fill and I'll take anybody. I only need a few slots filled with experienced players while we teach the others. Seriously .. never had a problem, never a failure.

(Talking about, in this order - ADQ1 (2 groups) - DQ2 - Reaver - Hound - VOD - Titan.)

With as many new players we have and as many times as I do this it seems I might have encountered at least one of these new players who will not listen?

Now, to be fair I have felt some frustration but to further my point that frustration came back to being my responsibility.

It was Titan. We once had a wizard parked in the Sub for over 30 minutes (with an already full group) just teleporting people back and forth because "Repair your Sigil" just wasting sinking through. I pinpointed my errors in leadership though, tightened up my command and it didn't happen again.

The point I'm making is, I believe that when properly approached and when they trust the word of their leader they (these new players) do in fact listen.

JMO.

[Sinni]

BTW: I don't experience with any other MMO (though lately I have been interested enough in the new star wars MMO to at least check it out when it's released) so I really have nothing to compare to. Is DDO really so much more difficult than another MMO, like WOW for example?

Aten

Yes, in other MMOs you can't irreparably gimp your character. a simple respec can always solve it. now that we have lesser/greater reincarnations you can correct skill and attribute mistakes and feat respec is also easier now (was possible before, but you had to do it feat by feat, so for a complete overhaul it was not really an option). so in that term DDO made quite a step, but the wrong multiclassing can still completely gimp your char and i don't consider multiple +3 reincarnations to fix that a useable solution, nor do i consider tr being that.

and in other games even if you screw your character up it will never be as bad as a screwed up DDO char. this problem comes with the huge customizability you have in DDO, which is a really great feature.

[uhgungawa]

I'd say let them mess up and learn, but nobody would let them in a group and so not learn. But if we razz them like we were razzed when we started... BOOOOM.... the powers that be come down on us. So my only advice to people is...

Once again we interrupt this thread for the MANDATED TURBINE FORUM MESSAGE


/HUG NOOB


Now back to your regularly scheduled thread

[Bacab]

what I meant was...

I am tired of people not listening to veteran players...dieing all the time...playing broken toons...then obviously failing...

THEN...they complain about how hard the game is...and for some reason Turbine rewards those individuals.

How come Turbine complies with these tired WoW re-treads?

HAY I WANT E-Z GAME GIMME...why must the rest of the game be watered down?

I understand that you DONT HAVE to play with those people (unless you pug) but I mean, at what point can we say enough is enough?

Do a random search on these forums and count the number of extremely weird/horrid builds. Now its ok to make a build. But when people then defend their builds and take the "I am taking my ball and going home attitude". We are supposed to feel bad for them.

Oh yeah Aten, this MMO is "harder" than other MMOs. And that is a VERY GOOD thing. WoW is too easy. Square Enix (FFXI) hates its customer base. Warhammer and Guild Wars lack end game. DDO is incredible (combat system is so active and interesting) and the quest are not kill "X" creatures then turn in "Y" drops to an NPC for a reward.

I love DDO and I just fear that things may/are getting too easy and what made the game exciting is being removed.

[blitzschlag]

imo the main problem is that you can throw money at a broken char and fix/semi fix it. back in the day the only way to play a broken char was in closed friend/guild groups where they pulled your weight or to reroll. through rerolling you got to know the game and the quests better. throwing money at it does not help at all

[Eugel]

I don´t think the gameplay is really harder than in other games.

But I have to agree that the character building is too hard, or too complicated.
Personally, I don´t like to study forums before I can even try to play for myself, nor do I like to copy some character build everyone thinks best.
I like to find out stuff for myself. I like to try out what works for me and what doesn´t.
And this doesn´t work in this game.
You have to plan your character from lvl 1 to lvl 20 before you even log in for the first time. If you are no expert on character builds, you will probably build a character which is of little to no use in end game.

Or all in all it´s the "metagaming" that is required in many parts of the game.
For me, it takes a lot of fun out of the game, when I am required to read about what will happen at what point in a quest. For example, you can´t do "Church and the cult" if you don´t know that the endboss is a vampire and how to beat him.

[toughguyjoe]

BTW: This one sentence I don't agree with:



I just don't know where these people are who won't listen. I have Aten's Raid Train - 5 raids in a row, 2x/week. It's not a guild thing, its a LFM PUG fill and I'll take anybody. I only need a few slots filled with experienced players while we teach the others. Seriously .. never had a problem, never a failure.

(Talking about, in this order - ADQ1 (2 groups) - DQ2 - Reaver - Hound - VOD - Titan.)

With as many new players we have and as many times as I do this it seems I might have encountered at least one of these new players who will not listen?

Now, to be fair I have felt some frustration but to further my point that frustration came back to being my responsibility.

It was Titan. We once had a wizard parked in the Sub for over 30 minutes (with an already full group) just teleporting people back and forth because "Repair your Sigil" just wasting sinking through. I pinpointed my errors in leadership though, tightened up my command and it didn't happen again.

The point I'm making is, I believe that when properly approached and when they trust the word of their leader they (these new players) do in fact listen.

JMO.

This kid heard Kistilan was leaving and is campaigning to take his place as HarborMaster of Stormreach!

Remember people, it all rests on the star! You need a strong person to have the Star in your group, or everything will go to pot! The Leader is EVERYTHING!

[toughguyjoe]

I don´t think the gameplay is really harder than in other games.

But I have to agree that the character building is too hard, or too complicated.
Personally, I don´t like to study forums before I can even try to play for myself, nor do I like to copy some character build everyone thinks best.
I like to find out stuff for myself. I like to try out what works for me and what doesn´t.
And this doesn´t work in this game.
You have to plan your character from lvl 1 to lvl 20 before you even log in for the first time. If you are no expert on character builds, you will probably build a character which is of little to no use in end game.

Or all in all it´s the "metagaming" that is required in many parts of the game.
For me, it takes a lot of fun out of the game, when I am required to read about what will happen at what point in a quest. For example, you can´t do "Church and the cult" if you don´t know that the endboss is a vampire and how to beat him.

Who says you have to win on the first run of every adventure? Isn't some of the fun going in, losing, and coming back better prepared to defeat your old nemesis?

[Spisey]

The Leader is EVERYTHING!

Or rather is a nothing in most of our runs! **** pikers! I thought that was the reason to have the star? Pike until something bad happens, then cuss at the person at fault, reform quest without said person, and have something to talk about for the next two raids!

Nick, Blah or Alejo, you out there????

[DarkFlash]

...and Guild Wars lack end game....

You must be joking!

[RATRACE931]

I'd l;ove to see the game go back to the good ole days where a Death acconted in XP loss based on your level. If these idiots who refuse to listen to some1 whos been here for 4 years just because they've "Done this quest 9 times" or "I saw this same build own Storm Cleave at lvl 12" had to deal with lossing XP everytime their advice asking but no listenning butts died then, maybe, they'd have to rethink their broke builds just like we did once upon a time. The point is they are US 4 years ago but instead of us changing for the game the game is changing for them.

[RATRACE931]

I don´t think the gameplay is really harder than in other games.

But I have to agree that the character building is too hard, or too complicated.
Personally, I don´t like to study forums before I can even try to play for myself, nor do I like to copy some character build everyone thinks best.
I like to find out stuff for myself. I like to try out what works for me and what doesn´t.
And this doesn´t work in this game.
You have to plan your character from lvl 1 to lvl 20 before you even log in for the first time. If you are no expert on character builds, you will probably build a character which is of little to no use in end game.

Or all in all it´s the "metagaming" that is required in many parts of the game.
For me, it takes a lot of fun out of the game, when I am required to read about what will happen at what point in a quest. For example, you can´t do "Church and the cult" if you don´t know that the endboss is a vampire and how to beat him.

I can't disagree more, whats wrong with aving to put actual THOUGHT into a build? This is a D&D based game, i'm not sure about you but I always put a ton of thought into my characters and this is downplayed quite a bit from that. Also i absolutly do NOT want to beat a brand new quest i have no idea about the first time i step into it. The reason most vets still remember Church and the Cult or Elite Tempest Spine or Titan is because they took so LONG for us to be able to beat them consistantly.

[toughguyjoe]

Pike until something bad happens, then cuss at the person at fault, reform quest without said person, and have something to talk about for the next two raids!

NOW THAT....

Is a true Leader.

[Atenhotep]

Pike until something bad happens, then cuss at the person at fault, reform quest without said person, and have something to talk about for the next two raids!

What this reminds me of most is Reaver. Basically you have a few people do the raid and the rest stand around. And if the guy doing the puzzle (because nobody else knows how to do it) fails then the pikers get to ***** and moan.

(BTW: I can't do the puzzle so I always get somebody to do it .. but in my defense I'm colorblind)

[Bacab]

You must be joking!

Played Guild Wars a long time ago...maybe its changed (like 2005 or 2006?)

[Bacab]

What this reminds me of most is Reaver. Basically you have a few people do the raid and the rest stand around. And if the guy doing the puzzle (because nobody else knows how to do it) fails then the pikers get to ***** and moan.

(BTW: I can't do the puzzle so I always get somebody to do it .. but in my defense I'm colorblind)

Taking the easy way out!

j/k lol A buddy of mine is color blind (red/greed) so when we play PnP DnD i use red and green markers to show spell AoEs and etc just to mess with him.