Ddo Is Too Hard

[Bacab]

Originally I was responding in a thread to this thread

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=233139

And I felt it was necessary to vent some frustration. Not sure if anyone else feels this way.

It led to this post paraphrased in regards to broken builds/then Froobs complaining about how "hard the game is"

It is typically:
Hi, I am a new player...with 28 pt build or drow (which makes them think they know what they are doing)...started playing 2 weeks ago. I want to nuke and heal so here is my build : 11 Favored Soul/5 SOR / 4 Wizard.

Notice that this build lacks heal/blade barrier and haste/fireball from the arcane side. It also has a job that you can buy (FVS) or earn with 2500 favor. Well this is where I get confused. If you want to buy FVS, thats fine and cool, but also buy 32 pt build. If you do not want to buy FVS...well you will earn 32 pt build BEFORE you earn FVS.

But long story short, what you get is really broken build that can not do anything at all. So then there are posts made (by vets) that such build will not work...so then the poster then says "what if I have 6 months worth of greensteel items and 50 mill worth of other assorted gear and extremely rare raid drops...it will THEN work . Well if you have those resources and skill...then YOU can make such a build work. But you are then successful INSPITE of your build...not BECAUSE of your build. Another fun thing to see is the typical build with 6 +4 tomes and extremely rare gear AND then it has to be a TRed twice toon...to work.

I could see Shade, ANthios, MaddMatt etc... running a SOR with 16 Total CHR and meleeing stuff and due to their Resources and skill...They could make it work. But such things are not recommended to "new players".

I played this game when it first came out, and then took like a 2 year break...then came back. It saddens me to see people (new players) make broken builds then complain to Turbine that the "GAME IS TOO HARD" since thier toon can not complete anything. Then Turbine rewards the "Froob" with an "easy button".

It just is hard for me to stomach this and watch the best MMO out there (have played most of them) get ruined by people unwilling to listen/learn from more experienced people.

[Zereth501]

You may want to change the title to "character building is too complicated". DDO is not hard. Otherwise, I think you're right. The default builds could be a lot better, and there should be in game advices on character building.

[Atenhotep]

I've been playing D&D since 1980. What got me started was a friend's older brother had been interested in this weird game called Dungeons & Dragons and when I asked him about it he said I wasn't smart enough to understand. Oh, it was on!

I've been playing D&D so long I completely forget that it might actually be hard to understand. Is it possible the rest of us playing DDO are looking at it from a similar perspective?

BTW: I don't have experience with any other MMO (though lately I have been interested enough in the new star wars MMO to at least check it out when it's released) so I really have nothing to compare to. Is DDO really so much more difficult than another MMO, like WOW for example?

Aten

[Sinni]

BTW: I don't experience with any other MMO (though lately I have been interested enough in the new star wars MMO to at least check it out when it's released) so I really have nothing to compare to. Is DDO really so much more difficult than another MMO, like WOW for example?

Aten

Yes, in other MMOs you can't irreparably gimp your character. a simple respec can always solve it. now that we have lesser/greater reincarnations you can correct skill and attribute mistakes and feat respec is also easier now (was possible before, but you had to do it feat by feat, so for a complete overhaul it was not really an option). so in that term DDO made quite a step, but the wrong multiclassing can still completely gimp your char and i don't consider multiple +3 reincarnations to fix that a useable solution, nor do i consider tr being that.

and in other games even if you screw your character up it will never be as bad as a screwed up DDO char. this problem comes with the huge customizability you have in DDO, which is a really great feature.

[Bacab]

what I meant was...

I am tired of people not listening to veteran players...dieing all the time...playing broken toons...then obviously failing...

THEN...they complain about how hard the game is...and for some reason Turbine rewards those individuals.

How come Turbine complies with these tired WoW re-treads?

HAY I WANT E-Z GAME GIMME...why must the rest of the game be watered down?

I understand that you DONT HAVE to play with those people (unless you pug) but I mean, at what point can we say enough is enough?

Do a random search on these forums and count the number of extremely weird/horrid builds. Now its ok to make a build. But when people then defend their builds and take the "I am taking my ball and going home attitude". We are supposed to feel bad for them.

Oh yeah Aten, this MMO is "harder" than other MMOs. And that is a VERY GOOD thing. WoW is too easy. Square Enix (FFXI) hates its customer base. Warhammer and Guild Wars lack end game. DDO is incredible (combat system is so active and interesting) and the quest are not kill "X" creatures then turn in "Y" drops to an NPC for a reward.

I love DDO and I just fear that things may/are getting too easy and what made the game exciting is being removed.

[DarkFlash]

...and Guild Wars lack end game....

You must be joking!

[Bacab]

You must be joking!

Played Guild Wars a long time ago...maybe its changed (like 2005 or 2006?)

[Happosaai]

BTW: I don't have experience with any other MMO (though lately I have been interested enough in the new star wars MMO to at least check it out when it's released) so I really have nothing to compare to. Is DDO really so much more difficult than another MMO, like WOW for example?

Aten

Yes, DDO is a lot harder than a lot of the other MMOs out there. Especially WoW... I'm a recovering WoW addict who came back to DDO with some friends.

In WoW, you can turn auto-attack on and walk away from the computer... not die and level your character. I've done this...

[SlayerInFlorida]

You may want to change the title to "character building is too complicated". DDO is not hard. Otherwise, I think you're right. The default builds could be a lot better, and there should be in game advices on character building.

Great point - make the default builds better and there will be less complaining.

[ArichValtrahn]

You may want to change the title to "character building is too complicated". DDO is not hard. Otherwise, I think you're right.

Definitely. DDO is generally easy. Anything Ive had trouble with has been the result of improper preperation. Character builds, on the other hand, are ridiculously complicated. Heck, even following posted builds can be difficult for new players.

[KKDragonLord]

Definitely. DDO is generally easy. Anything Ive had trouble with has been the result of improper preperation. Character builds, on the other hand, are ridiculously complicated. Heck, even following posted builds can be difficult for new players.

Just gotta point out that this is what sets the game apart from most mmos out there and its a good thing in the end.

Stick to a pure class and you wont go (too) wrong, its what i always say.

[HamsterBoo]

I feel like it would all be so much easier for newbs if we got some player friendly, 28 point builds and categorized them.
If I just started playing (as I have) I would love to see for each class a:
Good soloing build (with a warning that you should play in a party). This they sometimes already have
Optimized endgame build (with a description of what they do (dps, healing, tanking, etc.))
Easy leveling build (maybe not all the way up to 20, but a way to start people out)
and more that I cant think of right now.

Btw, this wont encourage "uniforming" because they are all 28 point pure builds.

Just rating the pre-made build based on soloability makes every1 a battlecleric (Which I confess I am, though now I got a GD V scepter and only heal because I suck at everything else).

Oh, and Multiclassing should be unlocked at 500 favor or so, but on all servers. At that, a newb will probly be too attached to their level 8-10 toon to reroll a gimped multiclass.

[HeeHaw]

Character re-speccing is DDO's worst feature, in my opinion.

Here's what I hear a lot in this forum: "Your first character is a practice character. Level him up until you know why he sucks, and then re-roll your real character."

Guild Wars was brought up earlier in this thread. While that game certainly has its issues, one of its biggest successful features is instant free re-speccing (while in a town). In a nutshell, you can run through a new adventure and fail. You can then look at your build, tweak it in town, and try the adventure again. If your build turns out to be improved, you can save it, and call it up again later. Throughout the game, a character will develop a list of builds, each with a different focus. The player can use the best build for any given situation.

This has many benefits:

1. It encourages both experimentation and learning. A new player can build the equivalent of a Wiz/Sor/War, and once it becomes evident why the build doesn't work, he can change it around and try again. When a vet gives him advice, he can apply it to his existing character, instead of filing it away for some "real" character down the line.

2. It helps future-proof characters for the changes inevitable in MMO's. How many players do I hear on this forum complaining that game updates have gimped their previously viable characters? With a system like GW's, this is not an issue.

3. It allows the devs freedom to make dungeons that require higher specializations. A dungeon can be made with a deadly trap that requires a trapmonkey to disarm, and a Rogue doesn't have to build a character that is gimped everywhere but that dungeon. He can use his trapmonkey build in that dungeon, and switch back to a different build for the next.

It's not an "easy button" issue. It's an issue of letting players learn the game as they play, rather than having them learn the game before they can play for real. The fact that Turbine added re-speccing options and them made them moneymaking items rather than free features is really sad. Especially for long time players with a stable of gimped characters.

[clanqui]

It would be lots easier if the preselected paths weren't (seemingly) intentionally messed up. I haven't been through all of them in detail, but from the ones I have looked at closely I honestly can't think of one that does not have some obvious and not really arguable flaw.

[magnefique]

Just gotta point out that this is what sets the game apart from most mmos out there and its a good thing in the end.

Stick to a pure class and you wont go (too) wrong, its what i always say.

Turbine needs to make character customization more accessible ( not watered down ) with . . .

1. easier respecing - the UI is terrible and having to "think your character out 1-20" is too much for the average gamer

2. Feats - no waiting 3 days for feat respecs

3. enhancement UI - ( no 3 day wait ), should be easy to do - with points spent pre-requisites not having you to spend some, accept then spend more. Note cost is fine in my opinion.

4. Enhancement UI - You should be able to look at all your enhancement options, dependencies relevant to your character level choices and play with them AND see the results of your character stats/abilities without saving.

DDO is a Sandboxer's game ( from a character perspective ) but the Sandbox is not forgiving at all and downright painful to play in.

[Kriogen]

It's easy to make a mistake (as easy as in any game), but the problem is, its **** hard to fix those mistakes.

There's nothing wrong making a mistake when creating a new character. It's how it is, it's how you learn. Noone is born as allknowning hardcore vet. The problem is that it's hard and super expensive to fix mistakes. This is the main dark side of DDO.

Make respec/reincarnate easier/cheaper, not quests.

[uhgungawa]

I'd say let them mess up and learn, but nobody would let them in a group and so not learn. But if we razz them like we were razzed when we started... BOOOOM.... the powers that be come down on us. So my only advice to people is...

Once again we interrupt this thread for the MANDATED TURBINE FORUM MESSAGE


/HUG NOOB


Now back to your regularly scheduled thread

[blitzschlag]

imo the main problem is that you can throw money at a broken char and fix/semi fix it. back in the day the only way to play a broken char was in closed friend/guild groups where they pulled your weight or to reroll. through rerolling you got to know the game and the quests better. throwing money at it does not help at all

[RATRACE931]

I'd l;ove to see the game go back to the good ole days where a Death acconted in XP loss based on your level. If these idiots who refuse to listen to some1 whos been here for 4 years just because they've "Done this quest 9 times" or "I saw this same build own Storm Cleave at lvl 12" had to deal with lossing XP everytime their advice asking but no listenning butts died then, maybe, they'd have to rethink their broke builds just like we did once upon a time. The point is they are US 4 years ago but instead of us changing for the game the game is changing for them.

[Atenhotep]

I'd l;ove to see the game go back to the good ole days where a Death acconted in XP loss based on your level. .

I'm flexible on many things but the loss of XP for everyone in a group because of one ... um .. person .. is one thing that isn't sitting well with me.

At the very least the need to fix that. When I'm power-leveling a TR it makes my runs very strict and I can become a major a-hole.

(But yeah, I prefer the old days of having a real consequence to dying. But we all knew what would happen when they changed that, right? And it has only become easier and easier since then).