9Monk/11Cleric ? stop me if I'm doing a mistake

[Lasulie]

Here is the build idea, you get heals and dispels at the cost of damage that you mostly? get back from cleric buffs like divine power and you get extra attack rolls and saves to boot.

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Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Female
(9 Monk \ 11 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 294
Spell Points: 855 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 13
Will: 17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    18
Dexterity            16                    19
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               14                    18
Charisma              8                     8

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Deflect Arrows


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Philosophy - Path of Harmonious Balance


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Cleansing I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Cleansing II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Cleansing III
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II

[Bacab]

stop...you are making a mistake...do not build this...

classic example of trying to do a little too much.

Light Path MNK can solo heal themselves. 20 MNK

CLR in general can solo very well. 20 CLR

18CLR/2MNK is very nice also since you can cast spells and have evasion.

[Lasulie]

maybe but this isn't about solo healing myself but being a nice addition to the team in a unique way. It probably sucks but I'd like to know why.

[dj.kickz]

maybe but this isn't about solo healing myself but being a nice addition to the team in a unique way. It probably sucks but I'd like to know why.

ur dps will be terrible, ur healing will be terrible. nuf said.

[r3dl4nce]

It probably sucks but I'd like to know why.

- Lack of higher level spells/mass cures
- lack of DC for spells and lack of spell penetration
- damage from 9 monk levels is useless

are you a good cleric? no. Are you a good monk? no. Are you useful? no.

[Lasulie]

- Lack of higher level spells/mass cures
- lack of DC for spells and lack of spell penetration
- damage from 9 monk levels is useless

are you a good cleric? no. Are you a good monk? no. Are you useful? no.

Well I wasn't going to use offensive spells and my healing spells would be as good if not better(Heal) than a bard, and I don't see the huge damage loss that's what I want to know. My fists won't be doing 2D10 instead they'll do 1D10 an average damage loss of 5 but with Divine Power/Favor I would get an extra 6 (with 6 attack rolls bonus)

[Anderei]

Well I wasn't going to use offensive spells and my healing spells would be as good if not better(Heal) than a bard, and I don't see the huge damage loss that's what I want to know. My fists won't be doing 2D10 instead they'll do 1D10 an average damage loss of 5 but with Divine Power/Favor I would get an extra 6 (with 6 attack rolls bonus)

Note that a pure bard will cap of with (a bit) more SP, but without havint to "invest" in two feats MT and IMT!

[Bacab]

Well I wasn't going to use offensive spells and my healing spells would be as good if not better(Heal) than a bard, and I don't see the huge damage loss that's what I want to know. My fists won't be doing 2D10 instead they'll do 1D10 an average damage loss of 5 but with Divine Power/Favor I would get an extra 6 (with 6 attack rolls bonus)

ok Mr "I joined Feb 2010"...you are right and we ALL are wrong.

Build it...prove us wrong.

I DO think YOU could have fun with this build...but it is a weak build and you will not be able to get into parties past lvl 14ish (Gianthold this **** may fly) but not past it.

Also if you are spamming DP and DF you will not have enough SP for healing anyone other than yourself.

You are the one who posted looking for advice. You got advice...now you don't like the advice so you try to argue with us.

Oh BTW BRD have this neat ability called Inspire Courage. It helps everyone. They also get this ability called Ironskin Chant (Warchanter of course). A BRD would bring so much more to the party than this build.

If you want to punch things, go MNK.

Though I DO think maybe a MNK/PLD build could maybe fit what you are after.

You would get Lay on hands for healing and Have some really nice saves.

Totally up to you though...but like I said, don't post it unless you are willing to listen to advice. Or if you are super intent on building this...just plan on soloing a lot. With Casual you will be just fine. Just do not expect to do raids, or to do anything but pike in raids.

[zealous]

- damage from 9 monk levels is useless

Not if you go over to the dark side.
---
When I do builds and consider different splits I find it advantageous to list gains/losses. I also try to have some sort of sanity check in the form of a alternative build the one I'm trying to make have to beat.

e.g. let's say you intend to play primary as a melee and that your sanity check is to be comparable to a monk 20

What do you gain from monk10-20?
+5.5 base damage
+5% attack speed from wind stance~4.5 damage/swing counting high
higher tier elemental strikes~4.5 damage/swing counting high
movement speed+abundant step
damage resistance
fluff
trash killing efficiency through qp/sb

From cleric 1-11:
Divine favor: +3 base damage
Divine might: +4 base damage, req 12+ starting charisma
some healing, bb

The cleric levels will net you some healing but with only emp. healing your mass cures might not be up to par except for groups with high damage mitigation. The damage output will be noticeably lower.

Feats: Are MT+IMT really worth it for this build?

Enhancements: No wind stance? Divine cleansing? extra turning?

Other splits: If you're not going dark path, why 9 monk levels?

Future "proofedness": Will only get tier I PrCs which makes the build a bit volatile.

Alternatives: Halfling monk with rogue+fighter splash for dragonmarks and scroll healing?

[FuzzyDuck81]

I've got a similar build on the go at the moment, see here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=231064

She's up to level 14 now (havent worked on a bit due to levelling a couple of other characters) more monk than cleric however, and more dex-based for AC & survivability, relying on higher-tier monk stances for dps though speed & earth strike, but has a nice selection of buffs, a surprising amount of healing power with the boosts to Healing Ki from enhancements & a potency item plus halfling dragonmarks & is generally a LOT of fun to play. While not having the highest ability in any one area, her versatility has made her a valuable addition to any party so far.

The main thing is making sure the party understands that you aren't going to be a primary healer & babysit them in battles (particularly for me personally.. i prefer to play as a melee and my clericing skills REALLY suck - mine is a monk with advanced survival skills!).

[r3dl4nce]

When you'll be doing quest in shavarath or if you will ever be invited in a ToD party, let me know.
Happy gaming!

[CSFurious]

no leader with a clue will let you join their group

unless you have a lot of friends to play with, be prepared to solo on casual setting once your cleric and monk levels are equal

maybe but this isn't about solo healing myself but being a nice addition to the team in a unique way. It probably sucks but I'd like to know why.

[phalaeo]

maybe but this isn't about solo healing myself but being a nice addition to the team in a unique way. It probably sucks but I'd like to know why.

This build shows progression to level 20, so I'm assuming that you plan to take this to endgame content.

Here is why it will not work, at least from the Cleric perspective:
1. Your cleric metas are Empower Healing and Extend. I assume you're taking 11 levels Cleric for Blade Barrier and higher level cures/heal- you'd be better off taking Maximize and Quicken for the BB at least.
2. You have nowhere near enough SP to heal endgame content. At level 20, I had close to 2,000 SP, and I milked it to the last inch during quests.
3. You will not have any of the highest level mass cures and no mass heal.
4. Your DCs will suck on most of your spells and you will have zero spell pen. You won't land many offensive spells and will waste time and SP trying to. Even if wearing a +6 WIS item.
5. Divine Cleansing is basically useless past tier 1 and useless totally after you can remove poison from wands/your spell bar.

I really don't mean this to sound like I'm ripping you up, but this just won't cut it from either the melee or healer perspective. Even in the hands of a skilled player, this is a novelty build at best and will be a drain on a party instead of benefiting as you intend.

[Atenhotep]

This build shows progression to level 20, so I'm assuming that you plan to take this to endgame content.

Here is why it will not work, at least from the Cleric perspective:
1. Your cleric metas are Empower Healing and Extend. I assume you're taking 11 levels Cleric for Blade Barrier and higher level cures/heal- you'd be better off taking Maximize and Quicken for the BB at least.
2. You have nowhere near enough SP to heal endgame content. At level 20, I had close to 2,000 SP, and I milked it to the last inch during quests.
3. You will not have any of the highest level mass cures and no mass heal.
4. Your DCs will suck on most of your spells and you will have zero spell pen. You won't land many offensive spells and will waste time and SP trying to. Even if wearing a +6 WIS item.
5. Divine Cleansing is basically useless past tier 1 and useless totally after you can remove poison from wands/your spell bar.

I really don't mean this to sound like I'm ripping you up, but this just won't cut it from either the melee or healer perspective. Even in the hands of a skilled player, this is a novelty build at best and will be a drain on a party instead of benefiting as you intend.

Well said! +1

And to restate something phalaeo commented on .. Empower Healing and Extend make no sense for me. First off, I never use Empower Healing because there are just too many items in game which duplicate it. And Extend ... after about 11th level you never need it (it is useful in VOD but thats it) because every 10 minutes you encounter a beholder or some magic dispelling creature anyway. Besides if the crew cant accomplish their mission in 18 minutes (18 cleric/2 monk) they've failed anyway.

[Atenhotep]

maybe but this isn't about solo healing myself but being a nice addition to the team in a unique way. It probably sucks but I'd like to know why.

Just go with the Monk 2/Cleric 18. Seriously, it's the best but I should add that build points can be an issue since you need to have a high reflex save to make the evasion even worth having.

The solution to that is True Reincarnation. So, don't waste your time with a 28 point monk/cleric build. IMO the 32 point build monk/cleric is pushing it.

I'm happy with my 34 point monk cleric which was built for Epic (and can breeze through most of that stuff) but I think I'll really be very happy with a 36 point monk/cleric build.

Current at 34 build points:

http://my.ddo.com/character/argonnessen/atenhotep

When he's finished he'll have 449 HPs. I've considered True Reincarnating him as a wizard to get the bonus on spell casting DC then back to monk/cleric.

Also, in Ocean Stance I have a 40 Wisdom which boosts my AC and saves.

Hope that helps.

[MystDragon]

The actual problem with your build is it lacks focus. The build looks like it really doesn't know what it wants to do.

Is that blend, class-wise feasible? Very. I currently have a cleric monk, level 16 who's end split will be cleric 11 / monk 9 who was created to test out in actual gameplay blending the synergy between the 2 classes.

But he is NOT a healer. He is designed as a melee combatant who can aid the healer if necessary. His clerical spells are used to insulate himself and augment his monk abilities. He is - in essence - a Holy Monk - and has been a blast to play. The best solo character I've had yet. And he has not been a detriment to his parties, either. The biggest problem I've had with him is the same problem all of my pure monk guildies have - even the level 20's - the lack of really good high level handwraps.

The build was designed by Lifespawn in the request a build threads:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=218341

He holds his own with the melee members of the party and is able to turn and augment healing in an emergency situation, as well. He has served as the party's only cleric in Vale quests, successfully - using more resources than a full cleric would have because he's not designed that way.

Will you be able to serve as a party's cleric with this split? In an emergency, yes - but it's not what it is designed for and doesn't hold a candle to the party's cleric/FvS healer in that regards.

Now like many builds that are more complicated to play - I don't recommend it for just starting out. For a newer player I would recommend a pure build. If you want to be a cleric - play a full cleric. You'll get an excellent understanding of healing and the divine spells available to divine casters. My first character was a cleric.

Again - at the risk of being burned at the stake - this build is designed as a melee combatant and can do a **** fine job as such.

[Seliana]

Before you light the fires and begin the flaming me: I'm not recommending this build to anyone, and especially not a new player, but it is also not as gimp as you all seem to be convinced of...

Invalid Target
Elven - Monk 9 / Cleric 11
34 Point - True Reincarnated

30 STR (17base +6item +2tome +4level +1Litany)
26 DEX (13base +6item +2tome +2ElfEnh +2race +1Litany)
24 CON (16base +6item +2tome +1level -2race +1Litany)
12 INT (10base +1tome +1Litany)
22 WIS (12base +6item +1tome +2ClerEnh +1Litany)
10 CHA (08base +1tome +1Litany)


First lets check what I lost out on:

What do you gain from monk10-20?
+5.5 base damage
+5% attack speed from wind stance~4.5 damage/swing counting high
higher tier elemental strikes~4.5 damage/swing counting high
movement speed+abundant step
damage resistance
fluff
trash killing efficiency through qp/sb

Ok, so what did I chose to take?


Hit Points:

72: Monk 9
88: Cleric 11
140: Con Mod
20: Toughness
20: Heroic Durability
10: Draconic Vitality
30: Greater False Life
45: Greensteel +45 HP
40: Racial Toughness IV

465 HP

=============================
Feats:

Monk1 Power Attack - Str 13
Monk2 Toughness
Monk6 Monk Past Life Feat - 2d6+1 Base Damage

Lv1 Two Weapon Fighting
Lv3 Empower Healing
Lv6 Least DragonMark - Invis
Lv9 Greater DragonMark - Displacement
lv12 Improved Two Weapon Fighting - 6 BAB 17 Dex
lv15 Extend Spell - Extend those displacements for 4 min each
lv18 Greater Two Weapon Fighting - 11 BAB 17 Dex

Class Feats:

Wholeness of Body
Improved Evasion
Slow Fall 3
Fast Movement 3
Still Mind +2 Will saves
Centered AC +2

=============================
Saves:

Fort/ Ref/ Will
6/ 6/ 6 Monk
7/ 3/ 7 Cleric
7/ 7/ 6 stats
3/ 3/ 3 Nightshield
4/ 4/ 4 GH Clicky

Fort: 26
Ref: 22
Will: 25

=============================
Gear:

Eyes: Tharne's Goggles - +5hit +8damage +Truesight +15spot +15search
Head: Beacon of Tira - Sup Devotion+Combustion VI
Neck: Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II - SP Regen
Trinket: Litany of the Dead
Cloak: Greensteel Cloak With +45 hp, +1 Str Skills, +5 Con Skills, Concordant Opposition
Wrists: Bracers of the Demon's Consort - DQ Raid
Feet: Greensteel Boots With Wizardry VI, +1 Int Skills, +150 sp, +5 Cha Skills - +6 Wisdom, +10 Diplomacy, +10 Haggle - Concordant Opposition
Hands: Epic Spectral Gloves - +4 to hit, Ethereal
Belt: Electric Haze - +GFL +100 fort
Ring: ToD Ring - Holy Burst Fists +6 Con +1Cha
Ring: ToD Ring - Shocking Burst Fists +6 Str +1Con

=============================
Enhancements:

Cleric Life Magic 4
Wind Stance 2
Racial Toughness 4
Monk Imp Recovery 2
Monk Tenacious Badger 2
Cleric Healing Critical 2
Cleric SP 2
Monk Wisdom 2
Static Charge
Porous Soul
Winters Touch
All Consuming Flame
Touch of Death
Elven Extra DragonMarks 4

=============================

So what did all that get me?

Heal Spell:

Base + Mods
100% Heal Spell
+50% Empower Healing
+50% Devotion
+40% Life Magic Enh 1/4/7/10
+20% Monk 3/7

+160% Modded Healing to Self

11x10+100=210 * 160% = 336 Empowered Self-Heal

So I can heal for 85% of my HP bar for 45/2300 SP, and I'm only responsible for just healing myself because I'm a melee build. I'm only taking half the damage because I can afford to have displacement on at all times in between shrines? Oh yes people! We have found Sucktitude! It's right here!

=============================

Well surely I'll have no sp?

405 base
70 Cleric enhancement
80 magical training
120 from 22 WIS
150 Wiz 6
150 Greensteel Goggles

300 Mysterious Bauble
1200 Epic Ring of Spell Storing
25 Archivists Necklace
------------------------
975 SP + 1325 clickies

2300 Total SP per Rest Shrine <- I sure hope my 17556 HP lasts to that next shrine!

=============================

Well yeah, but you cant deal damage like that....right?

Damage / DPS:

2d6+1 base - Monk Past-life Base Damage
2d6 ToD1 - Holy Burst Tower of Despair Ring
1d6 ToD2 - Shocking Burst Tower of Despair Ring
2d6 Holy - +4 Holy of Greater Bane Handwraps
3d6 Greater Bane - +4 Holy of Greater Bane Handwraps
1d6 Frost - Icy Upgrade on Handwraps
10 Strength - 30 Strength Damage Bonus
5 Power Attack - Power Attack Feat
3 Divine Power - Cleric Spell, Not that I even have to cast it to dps.
4 Handwraps - +4 Holy of Greater Bane Handwraps
8 Sneak attack - Tharne's Goggles
(Add +8 for comparison with the DPS chart using Prayer and the old Inspire Competence from a Bard)

Using a +4 Holy of Greater Bane of Icy Burst Handwraps = 11d6+31 = 69.5 Damage per strike
Using a +2 Devout Handwraps 6d6+29 = 50 Damage per strike
Using a +4 Flaming Burst of Icy Burst of Weighted 5% Handwraps 2(2d6+31)+5d6 = 93 Damage per AutoCrit

+500 Damage every 15 seconds from Touch of Death, which is around 17.5 damage per attack spread out over 114 attacks per minute unbuffed.

So what does that mean exactly?

Well since we are comparing DPS here I'll go ahead and add 1 for Prayer, and 7 for Inspire competence to every hit as per this chart: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174906


When forced to Bypass Damage Reductions for any reason I'm hitting for 76 Damage x 114 Attacks + 2000 Four Touch of Deaths / 60 seconds = 177.7 DPS

When fighting 100% Fortification I'm doing around 95 x 114 + 2000 / 60 = 213.8 Average DPS.

And on 0% Fortification Trash I'm doing 101 x 114 + 2000 / 60 = 225.2 Average DPS.

Yeah, It's not the perfect max dps Tempest-Warforged-Kopesh-Frenzied-Berzerker-Monster-Exploiter, though how many of those are really in your everyday pug? This build is not as fragile as a standard melee dps build either. One of a Monk's main strengths in a group is survival, and this idea capitalizes on that with fairly small sacrifice in DPS compared to other level 20 Monks. The important thing here is it doesn't have to rely on another player in order to function. It's a fun solo build that also works fairly well in a party or raid.

You shouldn't see this as dragging your group down and forcing them to carry you with your lack of contribution, This build offers different things to the group such as enabling automatic critical's via Weighted Handwraps for the other melee, offers decent damage that isn't also drain on the clerics SP bars when you get hit, it could even support heal the other melee if you wanted as well.

[Impaqt]

Stunned....


I dont know if I should be terrified or saddened right now.

[phalaeo]

Before you light the fires and begin the flaming me: I'm not recommending this build to anyone, and especially not a new player, but it is also not as gimp as you all seem to be convinced of...

Seeing a build like you have posted all geared out *does* make me rethink the build in general.

It's still my opinion that any almost even Cleric/Monk split like that takes tremendous planning, extensive gearing, and requires more than a 32 pt. build. All the better if it's a TR and you have the gear already in your cache. Although I did not express this in my previous posts, I maintain the opinion that it would be very difficult to get groups out of guild unless you have an extensive friend list populated with players confident in your skills.

[Seliana]

Seeing a build like you have posted all geared out *does* make me rethink the build in general.

It's still my opinion that any almost even Cleric/Monk split like that takes tremendous planning, extensive gearing, and requires more than a 32 pt. build. All the better if it's a TR and you have the gear already in your cache. Although I did not express this in my previous posts, I maintain the opinion that it would be very difficult to get groups out of guild unless you have an extensive friend list populated with players confident in your skills.

Id like to add on here for any newer players reading on the build I posted that it is my opinion that Phalaeo is absolutely right regarding this. I really would ask our new players that you not make such a build without extensive considerations for difficulty and at least playing through 20 levels as a monk first to learn the game. My build requires extremely extensive planning, a 34 point TR, and probably functions about 1/3rd as well without all of the gear I've listed above which most of which will be very hard to get for a new player. I built it with the expectation that I may have to solo my way to 20, and I am prepared to do so. Furthermore I enable my build to work via an extensive friends list and reputation I cultivated over my first 20 levels as well as being part of one of the best guilds on Cannith.

Looks like a fun build overall. The only thing I'm hesitant about is spending 3 feats for extended Displacements on a build without Improved Crit: Bludgeon. Since your full 20 levels will count for Displacement duration, maybe its best to skip Extend and take IC?

I agree that this would also work very well if you would like to focus on additional damage instead of defense. Either way would function, though I believe having extend on displacement might have a greater effect in helping level up on the way 20. Improved Crit would certainly go a ways to helping close the DPS gap.

These are all great suggestions and information everyone, I was really expecting nerd-rage to descend on me...