The Frenzied Bardserker (Brd 14/Brb 6)

[MorningWood69]

This build was created based on a number of builds I had seen around, but can't seem to find on the forums.

Its essential purpose is to be able to provide some damage. Not the best damage. But to be able to contribute to damage as a Bard. Also, to be survivable to some degree by having HP.

Secondly, the build is designed so that at level 20, your Inspire Courage is still better than that of an equivalent level Virtuoso or Spellsinger in terms of the benefits it provides.

The build loses +1 to courage from taking the full 20 levels in bard, but offsets this with warchanter so that the damage provided by this build's Inspire Courage should be +1 higher than a SS/Virtuoso 20, and the bonus to attack rolls should be the same.

This build also incorporates Lingering Song 3 in an attempt to buff the duration of Ironskin chants.

So, what do you get, and what don't you get?

You get:
- Reasonably high strength: You're no Barbarian 20, but you can definitely contribute to DPS
- Reasonable healing: by taking 14 levels in bard, you get access to 5th level magic, which includes Mass Cure Light Wounds, a requirement for raiding
- Reasonable hitpoints
- 3 usable songs: Courage, Greatness and Ironskin, all of which are as good if not better than a virtuoso/SS
- Useful buffs: focussing on buffs rather than DC based offensive spells, the build has all of the useful spells for buffing/removing debuffs
- Rage + Frenzy: Raging for + 6 Strength + 2 for Frenzy and + 6 Constitution, not bad.

You miss:
- Inspire Heroics: The AC song is nice
- 6th level magic: Around 150 Spell Points are lost by losing those last 6 levels of bard also
- The last +1 on Courage
- DC based spells: It's just not built for it

So, if you're the kind of Warchanter that doesn't want to stand around being a pansy with a repeater crossbow, or high strength but no relevant enhancements, behold: The Frenzied Bardserker!

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Brinleigh StormHammer
Level 20 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(6 Barbarian / 14 Bard)

Stats

Abilities Starting
(32 Point)
Strength 16 (+6 enh, +5 levels, +1 tome) = 28 (36 in a rage+frenzy, 38 with rage spell active)
Dexterity 14 (+6 enh) = 20
Constitution 16 (+6 enh, +2 enhancements) = 24 (30 in a rage, 32 with rage spell active)
Intelligence 8 = 8
Wisdom 8 = 8
Charisma 14 (+6 enh) = 20

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1 - This is so cheap to buy, even new players should be able to pick one up

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Equipment

The equipment here should be attainable by all new players by endgame. I'm aware that there's better gear here, this is just pitched as an attainable, reasonable build without raid gear necessarily.

Notable Equipment:
Minos Legens
Ogre Power Gloves (+6)
Dexterous Boots (+6)
Charismatic Ring (+6)
Ring of Protection (+5)
Cloak of Resistance (+5)
Chaosgarde
Health Belt (+6)

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Feats

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 2 (Barbarian)

Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 4 (Bard)

Level 5 (Bard)

Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 7 (Bard)

Level 8 (Bard)

Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell - you need this for buffs including displacement/rage

Level 10 (Bard)

Level 11 (Bard)

Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 13 (Bard)

Level 14 (Bard)

Level 15 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting

Level 16 (Barbarian)

Level 17 (Barbarian)

Level 18 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave

Level 19 (Barbarian)

Level 20 (Barbarian)

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Enhancements

These enhancements are purely a suggestion, other than those required for Frenzied Berserker and Warchanter. You could even buy the +cha enhancements if you wanted. If you take those listed below, you still have points spare at level 20 to buy what suits your mood.

Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhanceement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II

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Now onto everyones favourite part:

Hypotheticals

*Note all of these figures are based off of what many people would consider 'crappy' gear. That is, vanilla gear (+6 to stats and the like) that can be bought by anyone. Raid gear would significantly improve all of these figures*

One of the strengths of this build is the hitpoints that you gain, meaning that you're not the squishy guy up the back.

Hitpoints

20 Base
72 Barbarian Levels
84 Bard Levels
22 Toughness
40 Toughness Enhancements
20 Minos Legens
140 Constitution
398 Non-raged HP

Then some situational bonuses
+ 20 temp from Inspire Greatness
+ 14 temp from Greater Heroism
+ 60 from Rage
+ 20 from Rage spell

512 Raged and self-buffed HP


Attack rolls (unraged)

16 BAB
9 Strength
1 Weapon Focus
5 Weapon enhancement bonus
6 Inspire Courage
2 Inspire Greatness
1 Rage spell
+40 to hit

+ 4 Strength in a rage/frenzy
+44 to hit


Damage (raged + frenzied with a +5 greataxe)

6 (average greataxe dmg)
5 Weapon enhancement bonus
21 Strength
14 Power Attack
7 Vicious
8 Inspire Courage
2 Dwarven Axe Damage
3 Barbarian Damage Boost
66 per hit self-buffed

[Aganthor]

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1 - This is so cheap to buy, even new players should be able to pick one up

I'm not in a position to critique your build, but this statement fails the reality check! New player don't have the plat to buy a +1 tome. New players start with 0 plat/gold/silver!!! I sure can't afford a tome that sells for 500000 gold pieces.

[MorningWood69]

You should probably note that the build is 32 points.

I was referring to new players generally speaking as people who may have a few toons, and may have earned 1750 on one to make their 'main'.

In any case over on Sarlona you can pick up a Str tome for around 20k plat, which this character had by level 8.

Also, this build does not require the tome to be used at level 1. Any time by 20 is fine.

[Gunga]

16 Bard / 4 Barb is better.

16 Bard / 2 Barb / 2 Fighter is best.

GL!

[MorningWood69]

16 Bard / 4 Barb is better.

16 Bard / 2 Barb / 2 Fighter is best.

GL!

Any justification for that? I.e any proof to conflict with the numbers presented?

I can't see any reason for taking 4 levels in barb. The enhancements all come at 5 or 6 and you get no class abilities at barb 4.

And re; the fighter option: sure 2 feats is nice, but other than that and +1 strength, you're not maximising any of your barbarian abilities through those 2 levels.

Both of those options do give you 6th level magic though.

[CountHenri]

From experience spell healing isnt going to work with this build. Mass CLW hitting for maybe 50 HP tops (with enhacements and a devotion item) aint going to cut it (especially since you'll have a small SP pool so maximise/empower healing aint your friend either).

Also the fact you cant cast when raged & if you a Bardbarian why aren't you
at least double Raged?

Best bang for buck will be Heal scrolls so keep that UMD up & ditch healing enhancements for Scroll/Wand enhancements. As a Bardeserker this wont be for combat but being able to top yourself up for 200+ HP on one scroll post combat will make you popular with group healers

[MorningWood69]

Good call actually.

The intention of the build wasn't to be able to main heal effectively. The SP are more for top ups and buffs, but i hadn't considered taking the wand/scroll enhancements instead of +healing.

The inability to cast while raged is fine as really, you shouldn't be healing while fighting.

Currently the build as it stands is at level 11 (Brb 1/Brd 10), so we'll have to see how he progresses.

[CountHenri]

Any justification for that? I.e any proof to conflict with the numbers presented?

I can't see any reason for taking 4 levels in barb. The enhancements all come at 5 or 6 and you get no class abilities at barb 4.

And re; the fighter option: sure 2 feats is nice, but other than that and +1 strength, you're not maximising any of your barbarian abilities through those 2 levels.

Both of those options do give you 6th level magic though.

It comes down to synergies.

The sweet spot for bard is either L15 or L16.

L15 gives you : The AC song. Very handy in raids when someone needs to tank.

L16 gives you : L6 Spells. Bards dont have a great spell list but Ottos Irresistable is hard to pass up since there is NO save. A pure Bard can also do useable healing at this point. There is also Heroes Feast & Greater Shout for non-healers. Not great spells but useful.

So thats what L15/L16 Bard does but what synergises with it?

Firstly : Fighter - extra feats, better BAB, HP and martial weapon list
Secondly : Rogue - DD/OL skills and extra DPS from sneak.

Sadly Barb gives nothing at L4 or L5.

[gavagai]

Any justification for that? I.e any proof to conflict with the numbers presented?

Firstly : Fighter - extra feats, better BAB, HP and martial weapon list
[snip!]
Sadly Barb gives nothing at L4 or L5.

I think the big DPS factors for a 2 Fighter splash are the 15% Haste boost and +1 STR, and 2 feats (3 if you count not getting Cleave) to get ITHF and GTHF. Compared with the Barb, Fig 2 offers less hit points, a similar BAB, and no extra weapon proficiencies. The question is whether +15% haste boost adds more overall dps than the Rage/Frenzy.

The 14/6 will have an extra +4 STR from Power Rage & Frenzy and the Vicous damage and +2 Con while raged, +2 Con enhancements. All around you're looking Barb 6 giving 32/52 more HPs regular/raged and +9 average damage per hit in a frenzy.

I'll save it for others to calculate the Haste Boost + GTHF glacing blows + yadda yadda to see how the numbers look. They both look interesting -- the 14/6 being a little more selfishly geared towards devastation and the 16/2/2 being more versatile with quintessential bard spells and songs.

I'd be interested in hearing how this build works out past 11. [Grats on that, btw.]

[Delt]

As much as I like the bardbarian concept (I used to have one, look at Lubed's original life), its too highly flawed to be ultimately effective in current DDO (too feat tight for current barb PrE, needs +bab clickies, rage doesn't mesh well with clickies/spells, etc).

Fun for flavor and something different, but thats it.

If you want a beater bard, a 6 tempest splash works - there is better synergy there.

[Trillea]

Finally!

A bardbarian build that I like!

I have been looking for one to (semi) port over one of my favorite PnP characters to DDO. I am going to change the race to Human, but this will work great for a basic template! I only see a little DPS lost (2/swing) in the weapon enhancements, all the rest should work fine! Not to mention the CHA needed will be a bit easier to pick up.

[KoboldTrapper]

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=24

I give you The Savage Bard. Currently superior to your build using the same class levels. Only difference is that more is layed out.

Between the two builds, it all comes down to player skill. Personally, this build is designed to buff, buff some more, rage, madstone, madstone, KILL!!! Raging and madstoning while the others charge in to get the aggro.

This character could easily play the role of caster protection, kinda like the crossing guard. Monster charges in, gets stopped by the savage bard long enough for the casters to retreat and the DPS folks can regain the hate.

Being a human, it gets the beautiful bonus from heals so the healers spend less time healing it.

[A_Sheep]

Yeah, I personally can't deal with being unable to cast.

That said, good build, would recommend dumping cha to 10, dex to 8, max str, and boosted con to 18 for endgame building purposes. For levelling, though, that makes lower levels a pain to have poor AC and require item/tome/enhancements to cast spells, so I see your decision.

[kenderfall]

Ok read this the other day and have to agree bardbarians are fun to play. I have one and he plays well in end game raids. Adds nice buffs and decent Dps can hang in with the big boys just fine with 600 hps more than a few melles have btw. rage up beat em down heal up between rages,madstones with heal scrolls.

Can look him up on myddo.com name is Mosh Pit server cannith like i always say why watch the fight jump in the pit !

Mosh

[MorningWood69]

As far as i can tell from the Savage Bard build posted, this build is pretty much identical, but dwarf for Axe Enhancements and the Savage Bard includes raid gear in all its calculations.

While that's nice to do, and while it's nice to contemplate hypotheticals at level 20, the majority of the average player's experience in DDO does not happen at level 20.

Also, from calculations not available to me at this present time, Greataxe actually does Slightly better DPS than a Falchion as a Dwarf.

[Gunga]

Sadly Barb gives nothing at L4 or L5.

It's arguable that even Barb 6 is worth losing out at being a valuable raiding bard (AC song).

[Psyker]

I have a build very similar that is currently 14/2 bard/barb. My original plan was 14/6, then I decided I wanted the A/C and saves song and looked at 15/5 which looked like a terrible split so I moved to 16/4 (might as well get the 6th level spell). Lately I have been considering 16/3/1 bard/barb/fighter or 16/2/2. I'm thinking with the added Fighter I can pick up a couple of feats (thinking force of personality and another toughness) plus some fighter haste will be nice. Has anyone looked closely at the differences between these builds that might be able to point out something I have missed?

So far this build has been great for solo and team play. Lots of fun.

[Psyker]

16 Bard / 4 Barb is better.

16 Bard / 2 Barb / 2 Fighter is best.

GL!

Thanks for your post. You made me rethink my build and I'm leaning 16/2/2 now (was planning on 16/4. Looking at the compendium the only loss from Barbarian will be some HP's which will be more than made up for with an extra toughness feat from fighter, plus 1 more free feat and fighter haste boost, it all looks like a win.

[Gunga]

Thanks for your post. You made me rethink my build and I'm leaning 16/2/2 now (was planning on 16/4. Looking at the compendium the only loss from Barbarian will be some HP's which will be more than made up for with an extra toughness feat from fighter, plus 1 more free feat and fighter haste boost, it all looks like a win.

He's one of my favorite toons to play.

Hits like a truck, 525 HP 48 STR, UMD for Heal and Reconsruct no fail, 7+ min max damage songs/AC songs, perform fascinates on epic AND that stupid Otto's actually dances more mobs than you'd think with a melee bard...great for soloing.

Have fun with it.

[Failedlegend]

Any justification for that? I.e any proof to conflict with the numbers presented?

I can't see any reason for taking 4 levels in barb. The enhancements all come at 5 or 6 and you get no class abilities at barb 4.

And re; the fighter option: sure 2 feats is nice, but other than that and +1 strength, you're not maximising any of your barbarian abilities through those 2 levels.

Both of those options do give you 6th level magic though.

proof that 16/4 is NOT better...I have a similar 14/6 build MW I'm surprised there's not more of em.

15/16 Level of Bard gets

Inspire Heroics (+4 Saves/+4 AC)
2 Lvl 6 Spells and more SP

5/6 level of Barbarian gets

Frenzied Barb 1
Improved Uncanny Dodge (+6 Reflex/+6 AC)
Extend Rage 2 (extends rage by 50%)
Barb PA 2 (+2 DMG/-2 attack w/ power attack)
Barb Con 2 (+2 con)
Barb extra rage (2 extra rage per rest)
Bard hardy rage 2 (+2 more Con w/rage)
Barb Power rage 2 (+2 more Str w/rage but -2 ac)
Trap sense (+2 saves vs.traps)
More HP

Also note to people who are taking human for the extra feat (or other race) I strongly recommend WF if only for the fact they are immune to the fatigue after-effect of rage.