Revisiting paths: Builds for new players

[tihocan]

Thanks for the URL, looks like a great site. Looks like I need to grind Mabar undead so I can get me one of those cloaks. I'm enjoying the h-elf paladin. You mind if I post the build when I figure everything out, and say it's based on your pally tank build? Would it be better to post here, another thread here in the new player forums or in the h-elf forum? I'll make a note about possibilities with U8, and FvS vs Wiz dilettante. It may merit its own thread, because I think it makes more sense on a half elf to go pure, but I can see using a pal 18/rog 1/ftr 1 splash, too. In any event, I'll be sure to credit you, because this is an adaptation of your build, and I use a lot of the same feats, enhancements, etc.

Peace, love and elves,
Aubrey

Oh, post it wherever you want This thread is probably not a good place (won't get noticed), the new player forum would be mostly if you want to get some feedback on it, otherwise I'd say the character build forum would probably be the most appropriate place (but Paladin forum could work too).

[Gummi]

hmm in regard with the beacon of hope (FS) wouldn't it be plain out better to take empower spell instead of empower heal and then take the improved empower spell enchantment full line would actually make empower spell cost 1 less spell point than empower heal on a FS? and then it works for both heals AND offensive spells, even with only improved empower spell II it be just one more spell point than empower heal and still work on offensive spells, to me that seem better, or am i missing something there?

[tihocan]

hmm in regard with the beacon of hope (FS) wouldn't it be plain out better to take empower spell instead of empower heal and then take the improved empower spell enchantment full line would actually make empower spell cost 1 less spell point than empower heal on a FS? and then it works for both heals AND offensive spells, even with only improved empower spell II it be just one more spell point than empower heal and still work on offensive spells, to me that seem better, or am i missing something there?

Yes, that's a very valid way to go (I'm assuming your maths are right, I don't have time to check it).
However it costs more APs, and Empower Spell would still be more expensive at lower levels, and it doesn't work on Heal / Mass Heal. I know most of the time you don't need to empower Heal, but it can be handy sometimes, especially on a high HP warforged you need to keep alive.
Since this build is supposed to be really focused on healing, I think I'll keep it that way, but I may add a note about your suggestion in variants later, thanks!

[Anzanel]

I'm doing the Necromancer build listed in here. Everything is proceeding nicely--I'm finally starting to get the basics of playing a Wiz...at lvl 16 :P

Two problems, though:

1 - When I spend points at each lvlup, I get #.5 skills every even-numbered level. This is a bit worrying since 20 is also even-numbered. What should I do with my points when I hit lvl 20?

2 - I messed up the feat order a little, and took quicken at lvl 12, then spell penetration and increased mental toughness at 15, and will take greater spell pen. at 18 (as opposed to spell pen. at 12, then quicken and greater spell pen. at 15, and improved mental toughness at 18.) ...will making it to lvl 18 be a lot tougher without the improved spell pen. feat?

As for why I messed up the order, I was probably drunk and mistook "12" and "15". Derp.

Any info will be appreciated





EDIT: Oh BTW, will there ever be a deepwood sniper build?

[tihocan]

I'm doing the Necromancer build listed in here. Everything is proceeding nicely--I'm finally starting to get the basics of playing a Wiz...at lvl 16 :P

Two problems, though:

1 - When I spend points at each lvlup, I get #.5 skills every even-numbered level. This is a bit worrying since 20 is also even-numbered. What should I do with my points when I hit lvl 20?

2 - I messed up the feat order a little, and took quicken at lvl 12, then spell penetration and increased mental toughness at 15, and will take greater spell pen. at 18 (as opposed to spell pen. at 12, then quicken and greater spell pen. at 15, and improved mental toughness at 18.) ...will making it to lvl 18 be a lot tougher without the improved spell pen. feat?

As for why I messed up the order, I was probably drunk and mistook "12" and "15". Derp.

Any info will be appreciated





EDIT: Oh BTW, will there ever be a deepwood sniper build?

1. Spend leftover points wherever you want.
2. You'll be fine.
There will be a deepwood sniper some day, in a distant future....

[Sambadd]

@tithocan - I'm an old (63 to be exact!) time VIP player, with antique low-level toons, returning as F2P after a looooong absence. I see little reason not to re-roll to learn the game again.

I'll probably run with a Rogue, or Rogue splash of some sort, because I like being able to search, open locks, spot, and disable.

Due to time constraints, I find I'll be playing mostly solo, with periods in Guild groups when I can. Because of that, I'd love to see a "Reformed Cleric", or Rogue splashed Cleric healer, if that is possible. With a focus on Solo play, if you can fight, self buff, self heal, and deal with traps, locks, and secret doors, solo becomes a lot more interesting.

The "Mighty Protector" might provide the answer, but I prefer the Cleric skill base over that of the Paladin, with two levels of Rogue instead of the Rogue/Fighter splashes, perhaps?

I'd love your thoughts on the topic.

Thanks for a great re-introduction to DDO character classes!

Sam

[tihocan]

@tithocan - I'm an old (63 to be exact!) time VIP player, with antique low-level toons, returning as F2P after a looooong absence. I see little reason not to re-roll to learn the game again.

I'll probably run with a Rogue, or Rogue splash of some sort, because I like being able to search, open locks, spot, and disable.

Due to time constraints, I find I'll be playing mostly solo, with periods in Guild groups when I can. Because of that, I'd love to see a "Reformed Cleric", or Rogue splashed Cleric healer, if that is possible. With a focus on Solo play, if you can fight, self buff, self heal, and deal with traps, locks, and secret doors, solo becomes a lot more interesting.

The "Mighty Protector" might provide the answer, but I prefer the Cleric skill base over that of the Paladin, with two levels of Rogue instead of the Rogue/Fighter splashes, perhaps?

I'd love your thoughts on the topic.

Thanks for a great re-introduction to DDO character classes!

Sam

Welcome back

Unfortunately, this kind of build is outside of the scope of this guide, whose goal is to provide implementation of the "basic" builds.

If you want a Rogue / Cleric combo, check guides by Sirgog or Impaqt, they may have some.
My personal "new-player-friendly" such build is Human Cleric 18/Rogue 2, with something like 14 / 8 / 14 / 14 / 16 / 8 (level-ups in Wis), with a Two-Handed proficiency and Insightful Reflexes. The 5 skill points on cleric levels would go into Search (2) / DD (2) / Open Lock (1). Feats looking like:
Toughness / Proficiency: Falchion / Extend / Empower Healing / Insightful Reflexes / Quicken / Maximize / Improved Crit (or Power Attack)
If you drop melee at high level you can respec Falchion / IC into Spell Pen / Greater Spell Pen (might need to plan accordingly the exact feat respec, you may not be able to pick Spell Pen at L1 since you're a Rogue).
Another option is at high level to get rid of Maximize and take both IC and PA (offensive casting is rarely useful on a cleric in L20 content, so you can even invest more in Str than Wis, but the Wis path makes leveling easier because Blade Barrier is so powerful).

[Sambadd]

My appologies.. I saw the other "splash" toons, and threads here, and made assumptions that were unfounded. I did not intend to "hijack"! LOL

I will take your helpful advice, and see what I can do with it. Afterall, it is but a game, so real realms, and real blood and bone is not at risk... I hope!

Thanks for the tips, and your valuable time. Both are much appreciated.

Sam

[Alfred0047]

Hi.

Firstly, thanks for making this thread! I now have 3 toons based on your advice.

Secondly, I'm making a Warforged Warpriest, any advice? I'm planning to follow your post, except subbing the Sovereign Host line of enhancements with the Lord of Blades one.

[tihocan]

Hi.

Firstly, thanks for making this thread! I now have 3 toons based on your advice.

Secondly, I'm making a Warforged Warpriest, any advice? I'm planning to follow your post, except subbing the Sovereign Host line of enhancements with the Lord of Blades one.

Sounds good
The build "as is" should work well, but on a WF, it can also make sense (compared to other races) to go pure Cleric with low Wis (and focus on Str & melee feats), due to (1) the greatsword proficiency granted by Lord of Blades, and (2) the -2 Wis penalty. The main benefit of pure Cleric is the capstone, which isn't that exciting though, and another good option is 2 Monk (evasion & feats).

[Maelodic]

Something I've found that is pretty dang new-player-friendly is a dragonmarked halfling in just about any role. You seriously should consider implementing that into some of your builds- I based a wizard build on your generalist archmage wizard, and I'm enjoying it quite a bit. I solo much better than most of the other characters I've built.

[Chronick]

I am running your Tempest build. Is a AC of 38 at level 14 worthless? Should I just start wearing outfits? What ones do you consider most benificial?

Thank you for your hard work and dedication to this thread!

[Dioflux]

Hello,

I am new here at this game. I have never played anything quite like it and I do find it hard. I have a lvl 2 ranger/lvl 1 fighter multiclasser now. I play this game with a friend most of the time and he plays a sorcerer. Well, I have read some of your builds and they all look very nice. I tried to construct a character from this build:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=12250

But it seems it is outdated with the current game. I mean you can advance to lvl 20 en you have big enchanments as tempest.

AT the moment I have like I said a lvl 2 ranger/lvl 1 fighter. I'm almost lvl 4. I'm using a 28pt human build. My start stats are STR 18 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 8 Wis 9 (IIRC) CHA 8. My selected feats are Dodge, Fav enemy (Giants), TWF defense, Weapon focus(slashing weapons) and Rapid shot. I do not use a bow and I am using full plate armor and Dual longswords. I have no idea if this a good build, but so far I have managed quite well.

However I want to be the most of use to my sorcerer friend. I need to be able to tank the damage a bit but also have to be able to do a lot of damage since we are only with two players. I would like a Two handed weapon ranger, but I am not sure if it is the best choice for what I want. I would also like to play a melee class, since they seem more simple. For healing we sometimes buy a cleric aid, so we don't need a cleric. What would you recommend me for class and build? I am still just a bit away from lvl 4, which means I don't mind redoing everything if that means that I end up with a stronger character. I also don't have kopesh efficiency. Would it be wise to start over?

Lastly, you seem to not choise a feat every lvl, does that means you'll have to save up slots for later levels? Or is that not even possible? In that case, should we fill in the blanks ourselves?

Thanks in advance,
Dioflux.

[FoxCourier]

Dio,

First, welcome to the game. It's always nice to see new players actively seeking help with things on the forums, and it's a trend I can only hope becomes more common as things go forward.

And now on to the more important things:

Rangers are sort of dedicated to one of two forms of combat - ranged combat (even if you don't use a bow that often, you should always have one for emergencies or situations where you can't get to your target fast enough - it's a good practice!) and two-weapon fighting (the primary melee option for even dedicated pure-ranged rangers). They generally don't do as well as other primary melee classes (Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Barbarian, and certain clerics and bards) in a Two-Handed Fighting role specifically due to a lack of proper feat and enhancement support that some of the other primary melee classes get (Fighter and Barbarian) and due to such specialized combat feats/enhancements over the others (Paladins, Monks, Clerics, Insane bards). I recommend that, if you are dead-set on going into a more THF (shorthand for Two-Handed Fighting; TWF is the shorthand for Two-Weapon Fighting here on out) that you look into the other classes mentioned (for which there is great build advice in the first post of this thread, via links to more specific build plans). Though, TWF Rangers are no less viable in a damage capacity then THF. You should always seek to play what makes you happiest, though, no matter what people on the forums tell you (as long as you know the advantages/disadvantages of your choices - so don't stop looking for information!).

Feats aren't given at every level - you also only get 4 enhancement points per level over the course of getting from that level to the next. Certain classes have an accelerated feat obtainment schedule (Fighters, in particular, get the most feats out of anyone else in the game - Wizards and Monks get up there as well, and Rangers get a lot of feats for free, as do Rogues) that you can read more about in the class specific sections of DDOWiki (found here: http://ddowiki.com/page/Classes ) for better planning.

If you decide to stick with Ranger - that's great! Just try to make sure to have two of the best one-handed weapons (what a weapon counts as is indicated in the weapon description near the top) you can obtain and, depending on your choice of race, that you pick ones that you have the most support with as a preference (Elves can focus into Rapiers or Scimitars, Drow can focus into Rapiers, Dwarves can focus into Axes, and so on, all via Enhancement choices made while levelling up that make those options more attractive to them). Otherwise, pick what you have the most benefit from using at the time. You should also, ideally, be leaning towards Light armor later on (once your ranger obtains Evasion, which allows you to mitigate AoE spell and trap damage, and only works when wearing light armor) though full plate can be fine now as long as you're aware that you're taking skill penalties to physical-intensive skills (like Jump, Balance, Swim, Hide, and Move Silently) by doing so. You can reduce this by getting Masterwork armor (all +1 armor should already have the Masterwork bonus applied), or Mithral armor (that also lets more of your Dexterity apply to your armor class, giving you an overall higher AC). I'd recommend looking at the Tempest build in the first post and seeing what you can do to adjust closer to that (you don't have to reroll to get the rogue level, and it's a bit late to take it now, but neither is it 100% necessary, especially if you're duo-ing with someone else), or use it for inspiration on what you can do with your own build.

If you decide to reroll (which is your option), you should consider the level of activity you want to deal with in your new character. Some classes are more active then others, and some require more planning then others. There are a few very nice builds for the appropriate classes in the first thread that focus on the various fighting styles available to the melee classes (with the exception of the Monk - that, you may need to look through the Monk forums for more help on). Specifically in the THF category are the Stalwart Soldier Fighter, the Savage of the Wild Barbarian, and the Flame of Justice Paladin (in rough order of intensive activity). Of those three, the Paladin is probably the most self-sufficient, but also requires a bit more planning for enhancements (as they have a lot of things necessary to bring their damage to maximum potential) and are a bit more skill-intensive (as their damage relies a lot on having this or that thing firing off in the right order).

Whatever you decide, good luck! And I can only hope I was more help then harm in this post.

[Dioflux]

Snip

Thanks FoxCourier,

I could never have expected such a great and detailed response! Thanks a lot. It made a lot of things more clear to me. However, as you said it also leaves me with more questions and that is, what I think, a good thing of this game.

I'm leaning more towards re-rolling, as you call it, since it would make my character stronger and I don't think it is going to be easy to get my character to it's full potential now. I'm guessing that the best way to help my sorcerer friend will be to pick either a fighter, ranger or a paladin. Barbarians also seem strong, but I dislike the brute theme around it. It might seem strange, but I do like to play a class with some style. After all, it is a role playing game. A fighter seems the best option as it is able to easily deal out damage and is able to switch to a shield when fighting bigger monsters/mobs so I can protect my friend. A paladin sounds nice, but without sufficient help from some one here I don't think I will be able to create a good paladin which can do all the things that I want. A ranger seems too fragile to tank the damage of monsters. In full plate I did not have that much trouble anymore, but without it I was quite fragile. With the evasion enchantment I cannot wear armor, so a ranger seems out of the option.

Some pointers:
-THF stands for two-handed fighting, but does that mean I fight without weapons and just with my bear hands? I don't like the thought of that idea and would like to at least use a weapon.
-I have read quite some guides and post and they said that a fighter with a great sword could also deal out some serious DPS, that also sounds attractive.
-With some experience into TWF I would actually prefer a TWF fighter or paladin over a single weapon.
-Sometimes multiclassing seems like a good idea and I do support the thought of it and I have experience with it, so that is not a problem.
- I would prefer a Human class and I dislike dwarfs, any of the half-ling classes. Though it seems like humans only make moderate fighters, so, if necessary I can unlock a payed class, but I wouldn't prefer to.

So here come the questions:
Which of the two classes, Fighter and Paladin, would you recommend me to be able to dish out enough damage and be able to duo a long way into the game? Which of the three subclasses should I pick? Which race should pick? And are there any other things new players have to look out for?

Thanks in advance,
Dio.

EDIT:
It seems that Fighters are pretty poor solo'rs. Does one sorcerer provides enough help to make that disadvantage gone? Or should I look into making a Ranger after all because they seem to be more able to solo?

[FoxCourier]

Two-Handed Fighting mostly refers to using a weapon that requires the use of two hands (greataxes, great clubs, greatswords, quarterstaves, falchions, and mauls off the top of my head). If you want to TWF, though, by all means do so! It's certainly fun and kind of stylish.

Paladin, in a Duo situation, is probably going to be the greater choice - you get Lay on Hands (a self-heal that scales with level and charisma), immunity to fear/disease later on (and an aura that gives bonuses to resist fear to your duo-partner if they're close enough for it), access to some pretty potent buffs and spells (as well as cure wands - which you can use as early as level one as a paladin even if you don't have the capability to cast spells yourself), and the ability to leverage a lot of additional damage with Smite Evil and some of the enhancements (which is why Paladins have to be so active about managing their DPS via activated abilities, and why they're so enhancement starved).

Knight of the Chalice is the popular DPS choice, though Hunter of the Dead seems to be what tihocan used in the Truthbringer build (that's linked in the first post, and I can see why it would be attractive to a Soloist - it lets you use Remove Disease uses for Restoration, which is kind of handy). Of the two, I usually go for Knight of the Chalice out of personal preference - though now I'm starting to consider Hunter of the Dead a bit more now that I've actually looked at it in more detail.

Racial choice can play in a lot for things (mostly through enhancement lines, starting attributes, and bonus feats), but you can make almost any combination work. Humans are a really good starting point for a lot of builds (improved recovery enhancements, more skill points, bonus feat at level one), so don't feel too bad about playing one. Also don't feel bad about playing any race that you think makes more sense for your character - some choices are more optimal, but as long as the build is at least workable (all of tihocan's builds are great - not all of them are my style, but they have a very solid design basis) you can usually compensate for a lot of things and at least do decent (if not best ever).

Fighter isn't a bad choice, either, though - you can get a significant amount of damage going with a Kensai build that is most certainly noticeable and still maintain a decent level of defense (though not near well enough to be too useful outside of a dedicated tank build... but cleric hireling contracts can help offset that a bit, if you and your duo partner feel that they need a little extra healing or buffing).

I'd say experiment with both and see what you like more, and then focus on that class. It's a lot easier to do better playing something if you actually like it, after all.

Good luck!

[Dioflux]

Thanks, I think a paladin would be the best then. I do think I need to follow a guide so you recon the Truthbringer would be the best one the follow?

And yes, I did totally miss understand two-handed fighting. But paladin still seems the better choice. I'll wait for your answer and then start reworking my way to my ally sorcerer ASAP!

[karl_k0ch]

I am assuming that you (Dioflux) are going to have only 28pt and no other races than the initial ones.


In general, TWF deals the better damage compared to THF. But then, it is more stat-needy since you need at least 17 dex in order to qualify for improved TWF, while Str should be the main stat of a melee (rogues might be an exception for that, but opinions differ).

Also, a paladin will need also a decent charisma for enhancements which will increase his or her damage. That way, a 28pt TWF pally is not practicable. THF pallys on the other hand, do not benefit that much from the damage bonuses as TWF ones.

[Dioflux]

If I would buy the 32 point build, would it be worth it then? Or would you suggest me going as a fighter or paladin, TWF or THF? This game offers so many options, it seems it's pretty hard to get it right. I think it would be the simplest to just suggest one of the pre-made builds in this threat.

[FoxCourier]

So far, I have a paladin following the TWF paladin build presented in this thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=137) and it seems to be working fine as a 28 point build. It could be a bit better, certainly, but it doesn't hinder it all that much (said character is human). Certainly more then adequate enough to get up to 20, even if it may not be perfectly fine-tuned for end-game.

And it should at least be serviceable enough to unlock all of the necessary rewards at any rate.

Choice is really yours, though - make the decision you feel is the best. Being receptive of the opinions of others is fine, so long as you still use your own (possibly enlightened) judgment in the end. Or, to bring up an earlier point... you just need to be cognizant of what you're giving up when you go into something, so you can adjust and be prepared for things as a result.