Revisiting paths: Builds for new players

[failgg]

this thread is just pure awesome.

taught me to play the game!

mad respect T, keep it up. can't wait to see the last 12 builds!

[tihocan]

This post is linked in the Warpriest of Syberis. This is the feat progression of the version before 2010/10/06, for people who started following it before this date. If you are one of these people and would prefer to try to "match" the new version, send me a pm with your current level (if you want to do it yourself, basically the idea is just to take Empower Healing earlier so that you can get the Radiant Servant enhancement at L7).

OLD FEAT PROGRESSION

Feats (by level), except Human: Toughness (1), Two-Handed Fighting (2), Extend (3), Power Attack (6), Maximize (9), Improved Critical: Slash (12), Quicken (15), Empower Healing (18)
Feats (by level), Human: Toughness (1), Two-Handed Fighting (1), Power Attack (2), Extend (3), Maximize (6), Quicken (9), Improved Critical: Slash (12), Empower Healing (15), Spell Penetration (18)

Advice for non-Human characters currently at L7-8 in the old feat progression and who want to use the new one (someone asked me through pm and I thought I'd put it here as well). There are two options:
1. If you can afford it, first respec Power Attack for Empower Healing, then respec Two-Handed Fighting for Power Attack.
2. Otherwise, take Empower Healing at L9, Maximize at 12, Quicken at 15, Improved Crit: Slash at 18. The drawback compared to option 1 is you will lose some melee DPS due to the lack of Improved Crit until 18. But you'll still be doing ok (from L12 to L18 blade barriers will probably be more efficient than melee anyway).

[tihocan]

This post is linked in the Stalwart Soldier. This is the feat progression of the version before 2010/10/07, for people who started following it before this date. If you are one of these people and would prefer to try to "match" the new version, send me a pm with your current level (if you want to do it yourself, basically the idea is just that the Least Dragonmark of Sentinel should be taken on a Human, as suggested by Azdraugnor, except it should replace Lightning Reflexes and not Skill Focus: Intimidate).

OLD FEAT PROGRESSION

Feats (by level), Human: Toughness (1), Dodge (1), Force of Personality (1), Combat Expertise (2), Improved Trip (3), Shield Mastery (4), Weapon Focus: Slash (6), Weapon Specialization: Slash (6), Improved Critical: Slash (8), Skill Focus: Intimidate (9), Power Attack (10), Bullheaded (12), Improved Shield Mastery (12), Greater Weapon Specialization: Slash (14), Skill Focus: UMD (15), Two-Handed Fighting (16), Lightning Reflexes (18), Improved Two-Handed Fighting (18), Greater Two-Handed Fighting (20)

[ZhuQue]

Thanks for this guide, it is practical, helpful, and (just as importantly) easy to follow. I'm totally new to DDO - although I did play NWN2 for a while. The differences between the two are more significant than the similarities, though. I haven't got up to page 28 yet, though, and it may take me a while.

I've started out both a cleric and a rogue - but I'd also like to try a paladin, favored soul, and monk. Is there any chance you'll be doing Divine Avenger, Scourge of the Undead, Virtuoso of the Sword, or Shintao Monk any time soon? I'd really like to have a go at those, but don't feel I know anywhere near enough to attempt them without help or advice.

Alternatively, since I suspect that you're probably very busy and lots of people want to see other builds, could anyone point me to other builds designed to help new players?

In any case, this is great, and I appreciate all the time and work you've already put into this thread. Thanks.

[tihocan]

Thanks for this guide, it is practical, helpful, and (just as importantly) easy to follow. I'm totally new to DDO - although I did play NWN2 for a while. The differences between the two are more significant than the similarities, though. I haven't got up to page 28 yet, though, and it may take me a while.

I've started out both a cleric and a rogue - but I'd also like to try a paladin, favored soul, and monk. Is there any chance you'll be doing Divine Avenger, Scourge of the Undead, Virtuoso of the Sword, or Shintao Monk any time soon? I'd really like to have a go at those, but don't feel I know anywhere near enough to attempt them without help or advice.

Alternatively, since I suspect that you're probably very busy and lots of people want to see other builds, could anyone point me to other builds designed to help new players?

In any case, this is great, and I appreciate all the time and work you've already put into this thread. Thanks.

I just started to update again this thread this week. Unfortunately I won't have as much time as I used to have to dedicate to this, but I should be able to regularly update it from now on (slow and steady).
I doubt there will be new builds in the short term though. Once I'm done going through all my notes about stuff I need to update (I'm about 1/3rd through), I'll probably start working on the half-elf & half-orc versions of existing builds. New paths will come after that.
In the meantime, you can hunt for builds in the class-specific forums.
Btw you don't have to read this whole thread. Following links from the first post should be enough. Reading the whole thread can still be interesting though if you want to see some questions / comments other people had.

[karl_k0ch]

Tihocan, did you already think about a revisit of the Mighty Defender for u7?
Since Intimidate will be a class skill for pallies then, it might be possible to make an intimitank pally which is pure. Sure, losing full UMD hurts, and losing two feats (fighter bonus and tower shield) is also not too nice, but you get the capstone.
Do you think a pure pally tank would be viable?

[akimsko]

New player here

Quick question. I'm following your warpriest cleric build, and I was wondering why you recommend "Human: Adaptability Strength I" as one of your enhancements. As you start out with an even str, won't this 1 extra point in str be wasted on odd str values? Or is there some other good reason to take this?

Other than that, I appreciate the work you've put into this thread, very nice job

[grimgribber]

I just started to update again this thread this week. Unfortunately I won't have as much time as I used to have to dedicate to this, but I should be able to regularly update it from now on (slow and steady).
I doubt there will be new builds in the short term though. Once I'm done going through all my notes about stuff I need to update (I'm about 1/3rd through), I'll probably start working on the half-elf & half-orc versions of existing builds. New paths will come after that.
In the meantime, you can hunt for builds in the class-specific forums.
Btw you don't have to read this whole thread. Following links from the first post should be enough. Reading the whole thread can still be interesting though if you want to see some questions / comments other people had.

Love this thread, and am having a ball rolling with these builds. I just want to echo the request for Divine Avenger (or Angel of Vengeance) so there's a non-healz focused Favored Soul path here (FS and Monk are the only two classes with only one path "revisted" -- let the half-breeds wait a bit, lol). I appreciate your work here, thanks much!

[karl_k0ch]

New player here

Quick question. I'm following your warpriest cleric build, and I was wondering why you recommend "Human: Adaptability Strength I" as one of your enhancements. As you start out with an even str, won't this 1 extra point in str be wasted on odd str values? Or is there some other good reason to take this?

Other than that, I appreciate the work you've put into this thread, very nice job

Hi Welcome.

Your are right, the +1 Str enhancement is only a benefit if one has an odd item bonus, getting an even final value. I do reset my enhancements on my human paladin quite often, depending where I need to even one or more of the stats. Note that there are not only +6 items, but also +1 tomes, and epic/crafted +7 and exceptional +1 items.
As it looks like, the APs are quite tight on this build and I'd read the mentioning of the +1 Str enhancement as "If you want to take one, take this".

[akimsko]

Hi Welcome.

Your are right, the +1 Str enhancement is only a benefit if one has an odd item bonus, getting an even final value. I do reset my enhancements on my human paladin quite often, depending where I need to even one or more of the stats. Note that there are not only +6 items, but also +1 tomes, and epic/crafted +7 and exceptional +1 items.
As it looks like, the APs are quite tight on this build and I'd read the mentioning of the +1 Str enhancement as "If you want to take one, take this".

Thanks for the reply

I was just wondering if it isnt better to go for 15 str, and then use the 2 points to boost dex or maybe int at character creation? As the first thing you use is probably Bull's Strength, which will override any item str bonus less than 4 anyways. And once you reach a place where you start to get access to greater than +4 strength items, you're probably already more in a caster role than melee.

Dunno, maybe I'm missing something, it just seems to make more sense to get +1 str enhancement then.

Ofcourse if you're expected to have a +1 tome ready to use right away, that's a different matter. But it's not really an option for me as this is my first char, and I'm not planning on spending alot a cash in the shop just yet.

[Nagantor]

Enhancements stack with Bull's Strength. But yes, a few of the builds seem to favor very high values in STR which might not pay off until the very high levels. In the lower to mid levels you're often better served with a bonus to saves and more.

[tihocan]

Tihocan, did you already think about a revisit of the Mighty Defender for u7?
Since Intimidate will be a class skill for pallies then, it might be possible to make an intimitank pally which is pure. Sure, losing full UMD hurts, and losing two feats (fighter bonus and tower shield) is also not too nice, but you get the capstone.
Do you think a pure pally tank would be viable?

Yes, with intim as class skill, pure paladin tank becomes viable. That's something I'll definitely look into. I'm not sure yet if I'll make this build a pure paladin or will mention it as a variant (the main interest in staying pure is the capstone, which although nice, isn't something that is a must have for an intimi-tank).

[tihocan]

New player here

Quick question. I'm following your warpriest cleric build, and I was wondering why you recommend "Human: Adaptability Strength I" as one of your enhancements. As you start out with an even str, won't this 1 extra point in str be wasted on odd str values? Or is there some other good reason to take this?

Whether or not it's wasted depends on your gear / buffs / tomes. Basically, if it brings you to an odd value, you can get rid of it. However, I wouldn't get rid of it until after you "stabilize" your character, i.e. typically at cap, unless you enjoy regularly resetting enhancements While you're on your way up, you should be able to take advantage of the enhancement at least 50% of the time, which is enough to make it worth taking.

[MrGharus]

This thread is awesome. I have been looking for a list of good solid builds for people in my group...we have a standard group of 5 of us that party-up and play together on a regular basis. Only one of us has played significant time in DDO before this and he didn't play some of the classes, so his specing knowledge has some holes in it.

I started a human rogue (32 point build) to use pretty much exclusively in this group, and have been using a ranged attack. I have been specing him with Weapon Finesse to use dex on melee, to be able to use UMD well, shoot for DPS support using the sneak attack, and to do all the big thieving skills (Spot, Search, Disarm, Open Locks). I was thinking of adding in 2 levels of ranger for the class feats as a boost to my archery. I wanted to know if there is a good Rogue 18/Ranger 2 build for this? If so, I'd love to see it built out with the standard format you have been using in this thread. Also, is this a viable build concept or is it way off base? I do not want to do a Tempest build because I don't want to be primarily melee and I don't want to go that deep with the splash. However, I'm not sure it is worth deviating from Rogue at all in this way. Also, how good is the rogue capstone and is it bad if I miss out on it for these 2 ranger lvls?

On a related question, one of the people in my group has a ranger alt but he didn't splash in the rogue at level 1 to get the sneak attack bonus. Is it worth doing it now? He is not interested in any pay-to-play content so a reincarnation is probably not a viable solution.

Thank you in advance for your input and thanks again for this thread!

[Koravel34]

This thread and the effort that was put into it by the OP is greatly appreciated.

Rolled a Warchanter on Thelanis, and it has nothing but a blast so far.

[tihocan]

This thread is awesome. I have been looking for a list of good solid builds for people in my group...we have a standard group of 5 of us that party-up and play together on a regular basis. Only one of us has played significant time in DDO before this and he didn't play some of the classes, so his specing knowledge has some holes in it.

I started a human rogue (32 point build) to use pretty much exclusively in this group, and have been using a ranged attack. I have been specing him with Weapon Finesse to use dex on melee, to be able to use UMD well, shoot for DPS support using the sneak attack, and to do all the big thieving skills (Spot, Search, Disarm, Open Locks). I was thinking of adding in 2 levels of ranger for the class feats as a boost to my archery. I wanted to know if there is a good Rogue 18/Ranger 2 build for this? If so, I'd love to see it built out with the standard format you have been using in this thread. Also, is this a viable build concept or is it way off base? I do not want to do a Tempest build because I don't want to be primarily melee and I don't want to go that deep with the splash. However, I'm not sure it is worth deviating from Rogue at all in this way. Also, how good is the rogue capstone and is it bad if I miss out on it for these 2 ranger lvls?

On a related question, one of the people in my group has a ranger alt but he didn't splash in the rogue at level 1 to get the sneak attack bonus. Is it worth doing it now? He is not interested in any pay-to-play content so a reincarnation is probably not a viable solution.

Thank you in advance for your input and thanks again for this thread!

If you want to be a bow archer with trap & lock skills, it's more effective to be something like Ranger 19/Rogue 1 than Rogue 18/Ranger 2. If you prefer to be mostly Rogue, it would be best to be Elf so you can pick Arcane Archer (and then yes, the splash of two levels of Ranger is a good idea). On a Human mostly Rogue, I would advise to use repeaters (going the Mechanic line), and you could stay pure Rogue. If you are dex-based this is probably your best choice.

About your Ranger friend, the Rogue splash is a good idea if he can still max out UMD (which depends on his current level and base Int score), and if he's not an archer (or doesn't care about playing at L20, since the reason to remain pure on a Ranger archer is for the Ranger capstone enhancement, but if he only wants F2P content he may not care about it).

[MrGharus]

I have looked for some of these builds, but I haven't found ones that really tell you what feats and enhancements to take at each lvl or which class to develop. I wish everyone would use your standard format for builds because it is so easy to follow and so comprehensive. Also, some of the builds I have found look like they are from previous updates, so I'm not sure if they are current anymore. If someone has up to date versions of the Ranger 19/Rogue 1 or the Repeater Rogue builds, that would be greatly appreciated.

I've also read about the existence of a Tempest build that is Ranger 6/ Rogue 13/ Fighter 1 (or maybe it was monk 1), but I can't find the actual build. I realize that ranged damage just doesn't measure up to melee so I may need to change my mind about making a Tempest build. I still want to stay mostly rogue, because I really need to be sure I can detect and disarm any traps and open all the locks, so I'm not sure where that leaves me. Lastly, how do I build a rogue based Arcane Archer? I was looking at the L20 Ranger Arcane Archer in your build list, which is interesting but that would have to be an alt for me.

Thanks again for this thread and for the quick response.

[karl_k0ch]

I've also read about the existence of a Tempest build that is Ranger 6/ Rogue 13/ Fighter 1 (or maybe it was monk 1), but I can't find the actual build. I realize that ranged damage just doesn't measure up to melee so I may need to change my mind about making a Tempest build. I still want to stay mostly rogue, because I really need to be sure I can detect and disarm any traps and open all the locks, so I'm not sure where that leaves me. Lastly, how do I build a rogue based Arcane Archer? I was looking at the L20 Ranger Arcane Archer in your build list, which is interesting but that would have to be an alt for me.

Thanks again for this thread and for the quick response.

99% of all traps can be done with just one rogue level, sufficiently enough skill points and appropirate gear required. The biggest boon of more rogue levels are imho more sneak attack dice and possible some of the rogue class feats (improved evasion, crippling strike and oppurtunist come to my mind).

The 13 rog/6 ran/1 mnk build you are talking about is most likely the ravager: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=189681, or maybe leesa 3.0: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=181074
These are builds from a time where Tempest I gave a bigger/different bonus than it does now. They are still viable, but the main reason of a 6-level-ranger splash is gone.

My main character (level 20, MyDDO is not updating) is such a Leesa 3.0 build. she's a bit squishy, but I like the versatility. A base Dex of 16 + some enhancements and items was always enough to put out the bow and use manyshot successfully every now and then. It's a mellee focused build, but I am really satisfied with her ranged abilities which I tend to use often enough.

For the ranged ranger with traps build: Since the 19th level of ranger does only add a spell slot, some SP and +1 BAB, you might want to splash another class instead of ranger, going 18/1/1 or 18/2. both Fighter and Monk give a feat. Fighter gives a feat, +2 Fort and more HP; Monk gives a feat, +2 all saves and another rogue level gives a lot of skill points.
As for the progression: If you put a rogue level into your build, do it at the first level as this maximizes your skill points. For the feats, you can have a look at the AA build which tihocan already has.
I'd splash either a fighter or a monk level, taking an appropriate feat as bonus feat, i.e. toughness, Power Attack or something similar. This allows you to take e.g. Empower Spell at level 18.

[tihocan]

I have looked for some of these builds, but I haven't found ones that really tell you what feats and enhancements to take at each lvl or which class to develop. I wish everyone would use your standard format for builds because it is so easy to follow and so comprehensive. Also, some of the builds I have found look like they are from previous updates, so I'm not sure if they are current anymore. If someone has up to date versions of the Ranger 19/Rogue 1 or the Repeater Rogue builds, that would be greatly appreciated.

I've also read about the existence of a Tempest build that is Ranger 6/ Rogue 13/ Fighter 1 (or maybe it was monk 1), but I can't find the actual build. I realize that ranged damage just doesn't measure up to melee so I may need to change my mind about making a Tempest build. I still want to stay mostly rogue, because I really need to be sure I can detect and disarm any traps and open all the locks, so I'm not sure where that leaves me. Lastly, how do I build a rogue based Arcane Archer? I was looking at the L20 Ranger Arcane Archer in your build list, which is interesting but that would have to be an alt for me.

Thanks again for this thread and for the quick response.

Brennie posted a crossbow mechanic build here. I haven't looked at it in depth but Brennie is good If you want a Ranger 19/Rogue 1 archer build, you can just take e.g. my Arcane Archer build in this thread and tweak it slightly to accomodate the Rogue level (like karl_k0ch said, you can also splash 1 extra level of something else).

Going mostly Rogue shouldn't be to be able to disarm traps and open locks, since anyone with 1 level of Rogue can do that. It's mostly if you enjoy the Rogue combat style, and ideally go to 18 levels of Rogue for Assassin III (or you want to have fun with a staff acrobat, or a mechanic repeater...).

A Rogue based arcane archer would be an Elven Assassin with (at least) 2 levels of Ranger. I'm sure some people must have come up with such builds, probably in class forums (wish forum search wasn't so broken).

[ZhuQue]

I'm following your Dark Blade and Warpriest of Siberys paths, and am so far having a blast. I'm still very low level because I had to reroll both of them because I messed the cleric up - and I found that I don't like to play a halfling, so I rerolled the rogue as well.

I took your advice and having been checking out Favored Soul builds on the forum. I found one by Impaqt - Evoker FvS - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=199266 - that fits with what I'd like to do; ie offensive casting and healing. Others seem to like the build, too. However, I don't know how beginner-friendly it is. It lists a great deal of equipment - and a huge number of tomes.

If you - or any others who are reading this thread - are familiar with the build, or have any thoughts on the matter, I'd love to hear them.

However, while I'm considering, I may go and roll your Arcane Archer. Thanks again.