Revisiting paths: Builds for new players

[tihocan]

I want to make an elven Favored Soul - Divine Avenger. Looking at the pre-built path, there are some oddities (e.g., high-dex, two weapon fighting, but no weapon finesse). Any suggestions for this build?

Besides "don't follow the path", not really, sorry... I thought about it a bit at some point but haven't really decided which way I'll go on that one.

[Azdraugnor]

I've been following the Stalwart Soldier build here (splashing 2 levels into Paladin), and been very satisfied so far.

One question: would it be worthwhile to switch out Skill Focus: Intimidate for Least Dragonmark of the Sentinel? You'd lose 1 intimidate for Shield of Faith, unlock the Deneith intimidate enhancements, and make it possible to use Chimera's Fang for the glancing blows, as the dragonmark lets you use it proficiently. Then, the two-handed fighting feats could traded for the higher dragonmarks if desired (although that'd probably be less useful unless you're using the Chimera's Fang).

[tihocan]

I've been following the Stalwart Soldier build here (splashing 2 levels into Paladin), and been very satisfied so far.

One question: would it be worthwhile to switch out Skill Focus: Intimidate for Least Dragonmark of the Sentinel? You'd lose 1 intimidate for Shield of Faith, unlock the Deneith intimidate enhancements, and make it possible to use Chimera's Fang for the glancing blows, as the dragonmark lets you use it proficiently. Then, the two-handed fighting feats could traded for the higher dragonmarks if desired (although that'd probably be less useful unless you're using the Chimera's Fang).

That's sounds like a good idea. Taking note of it, thanks!

Edit: You could also prefer to get rid of SF: UMD or Lightning Reflexes, to get very high Intim.

[Azdraugnor]

That's sounds like a good idea. Taking note of it, thanks!

Edit: You could also prefer to get rid of SF: UMD or Lightning Reflexes, to get very high Intim.

In my build, I'm already dropping Lightning Reflexes to make way for the two paladin levels (but my reflex save ends up ahead due to the charisma saves bonus).

SF: UMD might be an option. I've never played to level 20, so I'm not sure how important it is.

Mainly, I was looking at the dragonmark to be able to use Chimera's Fang, since the glancing blows seem like they'd be great for initial AoE aggro, albeit not as good as cleave/great cleave.

Also, do the two-handed fighting feats affect glancing blows from bastard swords and dwarven waraxes?

[tihocan]

Also, do the two-handed fighting feats affect glancing blows from bastard swords and dwarven waraxes?

Yes, they do.

[Azdraugnor]

Good to know.

Thanks!

[Anzanel]

Hi,

I'm building up a Vanguard Warrior using the re-made path in this thread. What I want in the end is a lvl 20 THF melee character that moves really fast and mows things down real fast :P Looking totally badass is also an asset. So I made a WF Fighter and I've been following the build completely, but now I feel like I should change things around a little bit...and I need the pros to tell me that it's a good idea (Or at least to tell me that it's not a really bad idea.)

Regarding badassery: WFs look badass. However, I didn't take the Adamantine Body feat, or any body feat for that matter. As a result, I have a badass-looking WF that wears very un-badass looking armor (no, srsly, the +4 docent I have now adds a backpack and a neon green sleeping bag on my character's back. ***?) This makes me want to switch feats around a little and take Adamantine body ASAP.

1 - Should I even bother? Badassery aside, I also wanted the Adamantine Body feat for damage reduction, but would it be necessary since I'll have boatloads of HP? I won't be taking Great Cleave or Quick Draw, so I can replace those two with AB and improved DR...or I could replace them with toughness for extra HP. From experience, could anyone tell me which is better? Will the armor check penalty hamper my ass-kicking ability at all? (ie, would they slow me down/reduce my jumps enough to make a difference?) Also, would it make my single point in Tumble useless?

2 - What is Cleave a prerequisite for? 'Cause I kind of want to drop that feat, too :P And what about the Attack Boost III enhancement...do I absolutely need that? I notice that I never use it (I use haste boost instead, and they can't be used together.) Is it a prereq? Or is it a lot more useful at high levels?

3 - Should I bother putting points in the enhancements that boost flanking damage? (I do find myself attacking enemies from the sides pretty often...)

4 - Do +5 docents look less crappy? 'Cause backpacks really suck. I'm going into battle, not to class. Geez -_-

5 - I like jumping. A lot. I'm lvl 6 now...should I re-roll my toon and modify the stats a little? Something like:
Str 18
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 6
...just to have an extra skill point to put into jump? XD (I have 32pt build.) I realize that I probably couldn't have Adamantine Body with that (would have to take toughness for the extra HP) but still. Boing, boing!

6 - Should I just re-roll and make a Barb? o_O

Any extra info will be appreciated

[tihocan]

(...)

1. Yes, to look badass, take Adamantine Body, definitely. Going for some DR isn't a bad thing, although at high level it doesn't make a huge difference. The ACP isn't a big deal, you may not be able to Tumble early one, but later with buffs you should be fine (1 rank + 1 (12 Dex with +2 tome) + 4 (Greater Heroism) - 5 = 1, without even a Dex item or some extra skill bonuses from items).

2. Cleave is a prereq for Great Cleave. Attack Boost III is probably a prereq for Kensai III.

3. IIRC the Flanking fighter enhancements boost to-hit, not damage. A Kensai usually has no trouble hitting stuff, so it shouldn't be a priority for you.

4. The + on the docent has no impact on its look.

5. Yes, you can pick Jump if you want. Though I wouldn't reroll for it myself. You can do fine with an item with +Jump (carrying some Jump pots for situations where you really need a higher jump), until you reach L18 (then you can rather easily get a powerful Jump clicky which should let you reach 40 Jump without investing a single skill point in it).

6. That's up to you!

[ThePickleMan]

I've been following the savage of the wild barbarian build and I have a question about my lvl 18 feat. It recommends to take stunning blow. However alot of people have told me that I have low hp for a barbarian (being that this is my first character, and only around 400 health at lvl 18) and that I should take toughness. If i did, i could respec somethings so i could take the enchancements for it. My questions is, is stunning blow worth not getting toughness? and is the missing hp from toughness going to hurt me later in the game, when im lvl 20 running epics and such?

[Anedac]

Savage of the Wild (L20 Barbarian)

- On a non Human, you may prefer Toughness instead of Stunning Blow at L18. Both are valid choices, so pick whichever you prefer. If you go for Toughness, do not forget the corresponding class and race enhancements.

Looks like you would probably be okay!

[Mayar]

Greetings, fellow adventurers!
I am a new player in need of advice. Being a casual gamer, I am aiming for a toon which is self-sufficient and less gear dependent and in the same time - if not desirable in parties/raids then at least useful. So far, reading this forum I found that Warpriest of Siberys and Divine Avenger are paths that suit my playstyle and goals(melee char with healing a buffs). Now the questions that bother me these days are:
- Is the two-handed human Warpriest in full plate a 'better choice' than the two-weapon fighting Avenger with weapon finesse?
- And end game wise - are short swords(Drow) comparable to scimitars(Elf) for the Avenger?

Thank you in advance.

[Winter_storm]

Even though I'm still a noob. Thats a hard question. Its better to try a build you think you might like and pay attention to other classes as you lvl up to see if this is right one your playing or maybe try another one that fits you better. I started as Paladin and landed up playing a rogue and wizard. I think cleric warpriest is a strong build just let parties know you're not a heal-bot, parties get mad if you don't say anything before you join.

[tihocan]

Greetings, fellow adventurers!
I am a new player in need of advice. Being a casual gamer, I am aiming for a toon which is self-sufficient and less gear dependent and in the same time - if not desirable in parties/raids then at least useful. So far, reading this forum I found that Warpriest of Siberys and Divine Avenger are paths that suit my playstyle and goals(melee char with healing a buffs). Now the questions that bother me these days are:
- Is the two-handed human Warpriest in full plate a 'better choice' than the two-weapon fighting Avenger with weapon finesse?
- And end game wise - are short swords(Drow) comparable to scimitars(Elf) for the Avenger?

Thank you in advance.

Your last question is the easiest one: scimitar is a better weapon than shortswords. Since both races get similar enhancements for them, this remains true.

About Warpriest THF vs Avenger TWF: really depends on the Avenger build. You have something specific in mind? If you are talking about the official Avenger path, I just checked it out the compendium to see if it had been updated, and it looks like it still really sucks.

[Dancingrage]

Yep yep... though I think it'll be almost the same (I don't remember for sure).
I've been quite busy with holidays followed by return @ work, but I still intend on catching up on the numerous notes I've taken from various feedback

With more additions to necrotic spells and the ability to actually heal both yourself as well as your undead servant, it seems like it'd be more able to solo than before by far and away, and having both the aura running and specific target/aoe spells could make for a lot of hurt on the enemies and lots of healing for you in undead form as well as your pet.

I recall Eladrin mentioning considering tweaking the Wraith and Lich forms to be longer lasting if not outright permanent (which would really rock) among other things so even if it's only a bit better there looks to be better days to come for the Pale Master.

[Mayar]

...You have something specific in mind? If you are talking about the official Avenger path, I just checked it out the compendium to see if it had been updated, and it looks like it still really sucks.

Actually I did had in mind some custom Drow Avenger - was hoping that trading OTWF for Toughness or something like extend/empower/quicken is going to repay itself, while I swing two light weapons(short swords), plus drowish magic resistance and stats to boos my srurvivalability even further.
In my past experience in dnd games(BG, IWD, Planescape, NWN) I was always fond of characters that favor agility over brute force - thus said pure monk was my absolute favorite in NWN series.

Can you give me some basic guidance about possible Avenger build?
And there is another thing that struck me today ... that dual-wielding fighter-caster 'wannabe' I am trying to build, squeezing my limited resources, isn't it a ranger in disguise? I mean - is the FvS supposed to be build like that? or I am successfully fooling myself?

[tihocan]

Actually I did had in mind some custom Drow Avenger - was hoping that trading OTWF for Toughness or something like extend/empower/quicken is going to repay itself, while I swing two light weapons(short swords), plus drowish magic resistance and stats to boos my srurvivalability even further.
In my past experience in dnd games(BG, IWD, Planescape, NWN) I was always fond of characters that favor agility over brute force - thus said pure monk was my absolute favorite in NWN series.

Can you give me some basic guidance about possible Avenger build?
And there is another thing that struck me today ... that dual-wielding fighter-caster 'wannabe' I am trying to build, squeezing my limited resources, isn't it a ranger in disguise? I mean - is the FvS supposed to be build like that? or I am successfully fooling myself?

If you splash 2 levels of Monk that should work, with high Dex and main focus on Wis.
Main difference with Ranger is the Ranger is best at DPS, while the FvS is best a healing (or casting all those kinds of spells).

[Irinis]

Sovereign Avenger (Divine Avenger THF) (L20 Favored Soul)

Concept: Melee-focused Favored Soul, with good healing and buffing capability but no offensive casting
Original path's flaws: Low con for melee, twf spreading stats too thin, skillpoints into heal
Main fixes: Made it better for melee with THF and feat selections but still good for healing. A lot adapted from Lord of Blades build by Mellkor.

Alignment: Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Good, Neutral, Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, Lawful Good

Stats and Race (28/32 pt):
........Drow.....Dwarf....Elf/Elf...Halfling....Human....Warforged.
.Str.....16........16........16........14........16..........16....
.Dex.....14......10/12.....12/14.....10/12......12/14.......12/14..
.Con.....14......16/17.....13/14.......16.......15/16.......16/17..
.Int.....12........12........12........12........10..........11....
.Wis......8.........8.........8.........8.........8...........6....
.Cha.....12........12........12........12........12..........11....

Ability increase every 4 levels: All in Str.

Skills: Concentration, Balance, Jump

Feats (by level), generally: Weapon Proficiency: Greataxe (1), Favored by the Sovereign Host (1), Extend (3), Child of the Sovereign Host (3), Energy Resistance: Fire (5), Empower Healing (6), Power Attack (9), Energy Resistance: Acid or Cold (10), Improved Critical: Slash (12), Beloved of the Sovereign Host (12), Energy Resistance: Electricity (15), Maximize (15), Toughness (18), Damage Reduction: Cold Iron (20)
Feats (by level), Human: Same, but take Extend at (1) and Mental Toughness or Weapon Focus: Slash at (3).
Feats (by level), WF: Same, but take Lord of Blades instead of Sovereign Host then take Extend at (1) and Weapon Focus: Slash or Mental Toughness at (3) since you receive Greatsword proficiency from Lord of Blades.
Feats (by level), Elf: Same, but take Falchion proficiency at (1) instead of Greataxe.

For more information about picking enhancements please read this post.
Enhancements (Favored Soul): Charisma I, Concentration I, Energy of the Scion II, Favored Soul Ascendency (capstone), Improved Spell Penetration II, Life Magic III, Prayer of Incredible Life II, Prayer of Life II, Toughness II, Unyielding Sovereignty, Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancements (Drow): Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Dwarf): Constitution II/I (to make even stat), Racial Toughness II, Spell Defense I, Dwarven Axe Attack and Damage II
Enhancements (Elf): Racial Toughness II, Elven Falchion Attack and Damage II
Enhancements (Halfling): Hero's Companion III, Luck (Fortitude) I, Luck (Reflex) I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Human): Adaptability Strength I, Improved Recovery I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Warforged): Follow Lord of Blades!


Spells: Read the Lord of Blades build for spell choices and why.


Notes:
- WF will need a +1 INT tome for this since I followed Lord of Blades. If you are not confident of getting a +1 INT tome before level 3 then take 1 point from DEX into INT and get a DEX tome later on.
- I read a lot of great builds and rolled a few before creating this guide. If you are looking to make a WF then you can't go wrong with Lord of Blades build specifically. Yes I'm saying Lord of Blades a lot here.
- Drow is NOT ideal for this, not receiving any good racial enhancements for THF weapons. Halfling STR penalty will hurt a bit. Take Sovereign Host on a Drow following this path.

Tips:
- Remember that you need a Cha of at least (10 + spell level) to cast a spell. You can use items, enhancements, tomes and the Eagle's Splendor spell to meet this requirement.
- At some point your AC will not be good enough to avoid being hit, even on a 2. You can happily run around with a good looking robe or vestment (faster to swap than armor).
- Even as a melee FVS you will be expected to heal others, you can just kill stuff too
- A healer's first priority is not to heal others, but to stay alive.
- As the party healer, you will be expected to be able to help with a number of situations. Since the Favored Soul spell selection is limited, make sure that you carry wands, potions or scrolls for: Remove Fear, Lesser Restoration, Remove Blindness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Neutralize Poison, Restoration (Greater Restoration later), True Seeing, Heroes' Feast. You may of course stop carrying these once you learn the same spells.

Variants:
- If the mental image of an Angel with an Avenging Greataxe doesn't work for you, take Greatsword or Falchion on non-WF.
- Human Sovereign Avengers can take 12 INT to have extra skillpoints for UMD, reduce DEX in that case.
- Celestial Avenger is TWF and takes monk splash for TWF feats and evasion.

Color code: best to worst = green, yellow, orange, red

[notused]

hi, i been folow the arcane cañon guide, i take it with a warforged, im at lvl 6 now, but im not sure what feat take.


"A Warforged may consider taking the Quicken feat: because they can self-heal, Warforged casters tend to be more reckless than other races, and the ability to throw quickened Repairs/Reconstructs in the heart of combat can be quite useful. Depending on your personal preference and playstyle, Quicken may replace Toughness, Extend, Spell Focus: Evocation or Spell Penetration."

ppl in game says quicken is for use reconstructs when u are at 5 hp, others says for sor no need quicken, since im very new at game i dont know the cast time for reconstruction, or what feat to replace for quickened if i must take it, as i say im at lvl 6 as guide says i could take maximize, or replace it for quicken, or replace any other one, like evocation or spell penetration.

so far i been playing almost solo all the time what u thing guys could be the best way ty for adivice, and ty for guides

a by the way, can i take fireball at lvl 6 and haste in 7, i think it could be easy solo from 6 to 8 with fireball than haste what u think, till i get the fira wall?

[Irinis]

hi, i been folow the arcane cañon guide, i take it with a warforged, im at lvl 6 now, but im not sure what feat take.


"A Warforged may consider taking the Quicken feat: because they can self-heal, Warforged casters tend to be more reckless than other races, and the ability to throw quickened Repairs/Reconstructs in the heart of combat can be quite useful. Depending on your personal preference and playstyle, Quicken may replace Toughness, Extend, Spell Focus: Evocation or Spell Penetration."

ppl in game says quicken is for use reconstructs when u are at 5 hp, others says for sor no need quicken, since im very new at game i dont know the cast time for reconstruction, or what feat to replace for quickened if i must take it, as i say im at lvl 6 as guide says i could take maximize, or replace it for quicken, or replace any other one, like evocation or spell penetration.

so far i been playing almost solo all the time what u thing guys could be the best way ty for adivice, and ty for guides

On a WF I would take Quicken even on a Sorc because it can't be interrupted and since you're selfhealing it's really nice to be able to DEPEND on the repair spell to actually go off. Just make sure to cast your buffs with Quicken off then only turn it on when you're entering battle. Level 6 is a good level to take it.

From that build, take Quicken at 6, then take the rest of the feats in the order listed from Maximize at 9 until Evocation. Don't take Evocation, take Spell Pen instead.

[tihocan]

hi, i been folow the arcane cañon guide, i take it with a warforged, im at lvl 6 now, but im not sure what feat take.


"A Warforged may consider taking the Quicken feat: because they can self-heal, Warforged casters tend to be more reckless than other races, and the ability to throw quickened Repairs/Reconstructs in the heart of combat can be quite useful. Depending on your personal preference and playstyle, Quicken may replace Toughness, Extend, Spell Focus: Evocation or Spell Penetration."

ppl in game says quicken is for use reconstructs when u are at 5 hp, others says for sor no need quicken, since im very new at game i dont know the cast time for reconstruction, or what feat to replace for quickened if i must take it, as i say im at lvl 6 as guide says i could take maximize, or replace it for quicken, or replace any other one, like evocation or spell penetration.

so far i been playing almost solo all the time what u thing guys could be the best way ty for adivice, and ty for guides

a by the way, can i take fireball at lvl 6 and haste in 7, i think it could be easy solo from 6 to 8 with fireball than haste what u think, till i get the fira wall?

I would suggest to pick Quicken at 12, delaying Heighten to 15, and dropping the Spell Focus.
If solo, you are correct that taking fireball before haste would be best (taking note of this, hanks!)