Revisiting paths: Builds for new players

[KKDragonLord]

400 favor is easily achievable in the 5-7 range, as Tihocan said, but you should make sure you check your Quest Compendium (Book icon on your menu bar in game) and make sure all the lowbie quests are done on Elite. Fortunatly the Harbor and Korthos are pretty easy, even on Elite, and easier to get groups for, so this is almost a non-issue.

Word of Warning - Don't be fooled by Drow's shiny stat bonuses and unlockable status. Drows are honestly not all that good. The lack of Con really hurts them, and they lack any good enhancements that many other races get. Halflings typically outperform drow rogues, Warforged outperform drow wizards, Humans outperform drow sorcerors, and drow really aren't suited to any other class except paladin (Although they supposedly make good TWF paladins).

The very fact that Drow represent a race with Stat bonuses similar to a 32pt build makes them the cheapest way for new players to get a 32pt character, which makes the race Quite good for those players compared to the 28pt version of other races.

Drow make truly Excellent TWF paladins, they get improved damage with rapiers (which are the best one handed weapons for paladins for the synergy with critical Smites), they get Extra stats on both Dex and Cha and Paladins will always need to max Str while depending on several stats.

The lower Con doesn't even hurt the class all that much bc its such a Stat intensive class, bc they don't take as much damage as others throughout a good portion of the game, and they can self spot heal with LoH when in danger. TWF is the superior weapon style for Paladins because every single bonus to damage the class gets is Twice more effective with 2 weapons instead of 1.

So Drow too have their own niche.

[ThePickleMan]

The very fact that Drow represent a race with Stat bonuses similar to a 32pt build makes them the cheapest way for new players to get a 32pt character, which makes the race Quite good for those players compared to the 28pt version of other races.

Drow make truly Excellent TWF paladins, they get improved damage with rapiers (which are the best one handed weapons for paladins for the synergy with critical Smites), they get Extra stats on both Dex and Cha and Paladins will always need to max Str while depending on several stats.

The lower Con doesn't even hurt the class all that much bc its such a Stat intensive class, bc they don't take as much damage as others throughout a good portion of the game, and they can self spot heal with LoH when in danger. TWF is the superior weapon style for Paladins because every single bonus to damage the class gets is Twice more effective with 2 weapons instead of 1.

So Drow too have their own niche.

drow can be almost anything from what ive seen. Ive partyed with drow fighters, clerics, rogues, wizards, and just about every other class a drow can be. It comes down to more HOW the character is built, because if it is built right, any race can be anything. Just yesterday, One of my friends is a drow tank (fighter) and he was tanking better than a dwarf paladin (who was built for tanking).

[Oliaga]

drow can be almost anything from what ive seen. Ive partyed with drow fighters, clerics, rogues, wizards, and just about every other class a drow can be. It comes down to more HOW the character is built, because if it is built right, any race can be anything. Just yesterday, One of my friends is a drow tank (fighter) and he was tanking better than a dwarf paladin (who was built for tanking).

Saying that you happen to know a drow tank that is a more skilled player then a dwarf tank doesn't bear any relevance on the fact that drow tanks are mechanically disadvantaged in that role, or that drow are mechanically disadvantaged in -many- roles.

This is a game that severely penalizes poor character build choices and a very high cost to redo character choices. This thread is to help new players figure out some basic character paths to plot themselves along without having to constantly redo choices (or worse, realize their character is so flawed they have to start over). That's why the race choices are color coded in terms of how advantageous that race is - they still have a stat/feat/enhancement list to use, but people are clearly informed "this choice is not as strong as that choice, be warned".

[Zachski]

You know, tihocan, looking back at your Wizard builds, I just thought of something.

It might be a good idea to switch out Burning Hands or Magic Missile for Detect Secret Door.

Think about it... most Wizards (Except for Elf and Dwarf Wizards) don't have a high enough Search for secret doors even at Korthos level. And newbie Wizards likely won't find a Scroll of Detect Secret Doors.

Detect Secret Doors is quite useful. It enables a Wizard to gain extra EXP early on via detection bonuses, as well as whatever optional encounters might be behind those doors. And not every party can have a rogue or a ranger in it, so that helps alleviate at least half the problem of not having a Rogue (and might even make their job easier because then they can focus on traps while you run around auto-detecting every secret door)

As for why to switch out Burning Hands... quite frankly, Burning Hands and Magic Missile scrolls drop plentiful enough, but before then, Acid Spray does the job and still works on Oozes (an unfortunately common level 2 and 3 enemy) where Burning Hands doesn't. And as far as the Ingenious Sage goes, it's very easy to get to level 2 before heading out into the Island, so it's still useful then. However, I don't think I've ever seen much in the way of DSD scrolls. Potions, maybe, but those don't drop that often.

tl;dr: Newbies might benefit more from having Detect Secret Doors (which also allows them to learn the entire layout of various dungeons) than they would from having a second attack spell.

[tihocan]

You know, tihocan, looking back at your Wizard builds, I just thought of something.

It might be a good idea to switch out Burning Hands or Magic Missile for Detect Secret Door.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll have to think about it a bit more before I can give a definitive answer... my first reaction would be that secret doors on Korthos should be detected by a wizard (whose Int bonus to Search should be enough). Once you sail to Stormreach, I think being able to afford a scroll of DSD to scribe shouldn't be hard (but I'll have to check the cost of inscription materials), which could go into the Tips section.

[CrunK.]

Is the Bard Spellsinger suggested build still good to follow after update 5?

[Winter_storm]

You know, tihocan, looking back at your Wizard builds, I just thought of something.

It might be a good idea to switch out Burning Hands or Magic Missile for Detect Secret Door.

Think about it... most Wizards (Except for Elf and Dwarf Wizards) don't have a high enough Search for secret doors even at Korthos level. And newbie Wizards likely won't find a Scroll of Detect Secret Doors.

Detect Secret Doors is quite useful. It enables a Wizard to gain extra EXP early on via detection bonuses, as well as whatever optional encounters might be behind those doors. And not every party can have a rogue or a ranger in it, so that helps alleviate at least half the problem of not having a Rogue (and might even make their job easier because then they can focus on traps while you run around auto-detecting every secret door)

As for why to switch out Burning Hands... quite frankly, Burning Hands and Magic Missile scrolls drop plentiful enough, but before then, Acid Spray does the job and still works on Oozes (an unfortunately common level 2 and 3 enemy) where Burning Hands doesn't. And as far as the Ingenious Sage goes, it's very easy to get to level 2 before heading out into the Island, so it's still useful then. However, I don't think I've ever seen much in the way of DSD scrolls. Potions, maybe, but those don't drop that often.

tl;dr: Newbies might benefit more from having Detect Secret Doors (which also allows them to learn the entire layout of various dungeons) than they would from having a second attack spell.

All korthos quests can be accomplished without this spell and eventually you'll come back to Korthos to do elite for favor or help some of your friends just starting the game. Damage and protection spells are more beneficial at this point. You can, get to the sunnyside at level 2. So by having someone take you to the portable hole or just the center market you will be able to buy this spell later in stormreach. It might be better in a wand form or scroll for emergencies for detect door and knock. Most times for a wizard the secret doors are not spotted and this helps teach the new people that a good rounded party is needed to fully enjoy the quest (finding a good party that doesn't zerg or stick together is another discussion all together). Wish they put this teaching in the first quest with Celinas. I believe Tihocan is on the mark. Your talking the first 9 quests without it out of a seemingly endless list of quests ahead of you with plenty challenges ahead. Most veterans only choose spells you can't purchase or are hard to get, because they know they can use the scribe function for the rest.

[Zachski]

Yes, most Veterans know they can just scribe easy to get scrolls. However, we are not talking about Veterans. We are talking about newbies.

They don't even know where the Marketplace is, let alone that they can actually BUY scolls. When I first started, I sure didn't know that scrolls could be bought, I thought they had to be found.

For another, the entire reason I'm suggesting it is bonus EXP. Many quests offer bonus EXP that allow them to get closer to level 3 before leaving Korthos. Partying isn't always an option. In fact, most of the time, you can't find any parties in Korthos that aren't Elite, and have an AFK party member. And either way, traps will STILL teach them that they need a more well-rounded party.

And like I said, learning dungeon layout is pretty important for when you go back.

And finally, it teaches them a rather important Wizard (and arcane) lesson. You are capable of many things. With the push of a button, you can find things just by walking past them that you couldn't find even when searching. (And I've never had a Wizard find secret doors just by searching, by the way, even at Korthos level. And I'm talking 18 Int here.)

In fact, one of my biggest gripes with other MMOs is that arcane casters are relegated only to nuking, both single and aoe. In Quest for Glory (point and click RPG game series by Sierra), the Magic User/Wizard had an attack spell, but only because he'd be useless in combat without it. All of this other spells are dedicated to doing things such as fetching an item from far away, opening a locked door, levitating, and so forth. That's what I like about the Wizards here, they're capable of many things, more than just attacking and buffing, but also detecting secret doors, opening locked doors, and so forth.

[Winter_storm]

I really didn't know what xp was at that point. Just wanted to play, but learned each character had a purpose. It wasn't until later when did other builds I saw korthos different each time. If its not secret doors, its disable trap, monster aggro, etc. As we learn so does the experience.

[Brennie]

Is the Bard Spellsinger suggested build still good to follow after update 5?

U5 has had very little effect on bards, and no effect on the skills/feats/enhancements taken in the Spellsinger build.

It should be just as viable after U5 as before.

[SleeplessMalice]

Hi there, I was wondering what peoples thoughts were about swapping out the rapier and pierceing enhancements in the following build, for scimitar and slashing ones instead. Im just more fond of scimitars realy and wondered if it would have a negative impact at all.

Ty in advance guyz =]

Arcane Archer (L20 Ranger)

Concept: Ranged build (using a bow), still able to switch to melee when required
Original path's flaws: Too many points spent in Wis, very weak in melee due to lacking feats for it
Main fixes: Took Wis down to increase Str/Dex/Con (depending on race), fixed feats to be better in melee

Alignment: Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Good, Neutral, Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, Lawful Good

Stats and Race (28/32 pt):
........Drow.....Dwarf......Elf.....Halfling...Human...Warforged.
.Str.....15........14........15........14........14........14....
.Dex.....18......17/18.....18/19.....18/19.....17/18.....17/18...
.Con.....13........16........13........14........14........15....
.Int.....10........8.........8.........8.........8.........8.....
.Wis.....10......11/12.....10/11.....10/11.....11/12.....10/11...
.Cha.....10........6.........8.........8.........8.........6.....

Ability increase every 4 levels: All in Dex.

Skills (except Human and Drow): Max out Spot, Hide, Move Silently, UMD, get one rank in Tumble and spend the rest into Balance.
Skills (Human and Drow): Same, but you can max out Concentration as well.

Feats (by level), except Human: Weapon Focus: Ranged (1), Favored Enemy: Undead (1), Point Blank Shot (3), Favored Enemy: Giant (5), Mental Toughness (6), Improved Crit: Ranged (9), Favored Enemy: Construct (10), Improved Crit: <See note below> (12), Toughness (15), Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider (15), Power Attack (18), Favored Enemy: Elemental (20)
Feats (by level), Human: Weapon Focus: Ranged (1), Toughness (1), Favored Enemy: Undead (1), Point Blank Shot (3), Favored Enemy: Giant (5), Mental Toughness (6), Improved Crit: Ranged (9), Favored Enemy: Construct (10), Improved Crit: <See note below> (12), Power Attack (15), Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider (15), Maximize Spell (18), Favored Enemy: Elemental (20)
Special note: The Improved Crit feat at L12 is meant to boost your melee effectiveness and will depend on your race (to take advantage of racial bonuses to some weapons). Dwarves should get Slashing, Elf and Drow Piercing, while Human, Warforged and Halfling may pick either of these.

For more information about picking enhancements please read this post.
Enhancements (Ranger): Arcane Archer I, Conjure +2/+3/+4/+5 Arrows, Devotion II, Dexterity II, Energy Resistance Boost I, Favored Attack I, Favored Damage II, Favored Resistance I, Imbue Force/Acid/Explosive/Terror/Force Burst/Slaying Arrows, Master of Archery (capstone), Skill Boost III (except on Human), Sprint Boost I
Enhancements (Drow): Dexterity II, Enchantment Resistance I, Melee Attack I, Melee Damage I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Dwarf): Constitution I, Melee Attack I, Melee Damage I, Racial Toughness II, Spell Defense II
Enhancements (Elf): Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I, Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I, Dexterity II, Enchantment Resistance I, Racial Toughness II, Ranged Attack II, Ranged Damage II
Enhancements (Halfling): Cunning I, Dexterity II, Guile I, Luck (Reflex) I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Human): Adaptability Dexterity I, Improved Recovery I, Racial Toughness II, Versatility III
Enhancements (Warforged): Constitution I, Construct Thinking I, Hardiness I, Healer's Friend I, Racial Toughness II

Soloability by level:
No hireling..: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
With hireling: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Tips:
- Do not expect to be a killing machine with a bow. In DDO, ranged damage is purposedly lower than melee, because it is also much safer to attack from distance. The Manyshot feat, that you get at L6, will allow you to fire multiple arrows per shot for a duration of 20s (and can be activated every 2 minutes). This is when your ranged damage will really shine, so use it wisely!
- As a result, one of the most important things a ranged character needs to learn is when it is best to switch to melee, and this build is able to melee reasonably well when required to. Starting at L2 you can dual wield weapons (using a light weapon in off-hand to lessen the to-hit penalty): use axes on a Dwarf, rapiers/shortswords on Elf and Drow, and any reasonable combination on other races (making sure at L12 that you use weapons compatible with your Improved Crit feat).
- Ranged attack speed increases with your Base Attack Bonus, and this is one reason why ranged attacks are awfully slow at low level (when you should be meleing most of the time). It will improve as you level up! You may also carry some Haste potions to boost your attack speed in important fight.
- A common ranging strategy is called 'kiting' and consists in shooting at enemies while running them around, preventing them from hurting you. As effective a solo tactic as it may be, it often frustrates your teammates in a party, because chasing monsters around is not fun and it takes longer to take them down. There are at least two ways to avoid such a counter-productive playstyle in a party: (1) start by aggroing monsters with your bow, but instead of running them around, stand your ground and just switch to melee when they reach you, or (2) wait until a melee grabs aggro before shooting with your bow.
- Just like melee attacks, ranged attacks get to-hit bonuses when standing still. So avoid running and shooting at the same time unless you need it to stay alive (remember you also get a -4 to-hit penalty when shooting while moving).
- Once you get Evasion at L11, make sure you are using light (or no) armor as otherwise Evasion will not work. This build is not really meant to achieve high AC (if you want to be safe, attack from distance!), so you can use your armor slot to get useful magic effects rather than focus on AC (e.g. elemental resistance, False Life or Fortification), possibly using robes/outfits (which are faster to swap than armor).
- Remember that you need a Wis of at least (10 + spell level) to cast a spell. You can use items, enhancements, tomes and the Owl's Wisdom spell to meet this requirement.
- You may start using healing wands at L1, even if you are not able to cast any spell yet.

Variants:
- It could be tempting to splash Rogue for UMD, but overall it is best to stay pure Ranger on such a build, because the Ranger capstone enhancement increases your ranged attack speed.
- It is possible to go Str-based instead of Dex-based (i.e. starting with a bit higher Str and spending level-up points in Str instead of Dex). The main benefit is higher damage output, at the cost of lower to-hit. The Dex-based version was preferred here because it is easier for new players who may not have good enough gear to compensate for lower to-hit. The Str-based version would overall be more effective through most of the game (with appropriate gear), although if you start running Epic content at L20, the to-hit loss will probably matter against the highest AC foes.
- To keep presentation simple, the Elf presented here focuses on Piercing weapons for melee damage (typically dual wielding a rapier with a shortsword), but going for Slashing weapons works just as well (with a scimitar/kukri combination). Just switch your L12 Improved Crit feat to Slash and pick the Valenar instead of Aerenal Elf melee enhancements if you go this route.
- Other potentially useful Favored Enemies include Aberration (useful from mid to high level), and Goblinoid (low to mid level). In the current state of the game, the most important Favored Enemy to get in the long term is Evil Outsider.
- There is some freedom for the L18 feat in the Human version. Maximize was chosen to be able to self-heal faster in tough fights. Other options include Skill Focus: UMD, or saves feats like Luck of Heroes or Lightning Reflexes.

Color code: best to worst = green, yellow, orange, red

[Irinis]

In fact, one of my biggest gripes with other MMOs is that arcane casters are relegated only to nuking, both single and aoe. In Quest for Glory (point and click RPG game series by Sierra), the Magic User/Wizard had an attack spell, but only because he'd be useless in combat without it. All of this other spells are dedicated to doing things such as fetching an item from far away, opening a locked door, levitating, and so forth. That's what I like about the Wizards here, they're capable of many things, more than just attacking and buffing, but also detecting secret doors, opening locked doors, and so forth.

+1 rep for QFG reference.

[Muladas]

Hi there, I was wondering what peoples thoughts were about swapping out the rapier and pierceing enhancements in the following build, for scimitar and slashing ones instead. Im just more fond of scimitars realy and wondered if it would have a negative impact at all.

Ty in advance guyz =]

if you read the comments at the bottom, using scimitars is specifically mentioned there (w/ kukri in off-hand) as a viable choice for all races - well maybe not drow, since their racial boosts are rapier/shortsword only (while elf can choose rapier or scimitar)

[SleeplessMalice]

if you read the comments at the bottom, using scimitars is specifically mentioned there (w/ kukri in off-hand) as a viable choice for all races - well maybe not drow, since their racial boosts are rapier/shortsword only (while elf can choose rapier or scimitar)

Jebus christ! Cant believe I missed that... o.o
Thanks for pointing that out dude, I must have just been that tired I didnt see it lol.

[Zachski]

+1 rep for QFG reference.

As long as I live and breathe, I'll never let that legend die.

[Anedac]

Hey! I'm currently playing a human tempest build, adjusted to handle traps. I'm currently level eight, and I have some questions.

First, at level seven, I took the Favored Enemy: Construct feat, as directed by your guide. I'm wondering whether it would be more beneficial to swap that with elemental and then take construct at level seventeen.

So far, I find that there are way more quests with elementals, and elementals are much more difficult than constructs, and so I think that it would be more useful to have elemental. However, I am only level eight, so what I really want to know is what the rest of the game is like. Am I going to regret not having construct soon? What's your advice?

Second, I'm wondering what your opinion is on the Trapmaking feat? Is is worthwhile for a non-rogue. As I mentioned above, I adjusted the tempest to handle traps, and I kind of want to add trapmaking. I realize that for the tempest I really can't spare the feats, but what about for someone a little less feat starved, like a 2 rogue/6 fighter/12 ranger?

Thanks in advance!

[tihocan]

Hey! I'm currently playing a human tempest build, adjusted to handle traps. I'm currently level eight, and I have some questions.

First, at level seven, I took the Favored Enemy: Construct feat, as directed by your guide. I'm wondering whether it would be more beneficial to swap that with elemental and then take construct at level seventeen.

So far, I find that there are way more quests with elementals, and elementals are much more difficult than constructs, and so I think that it would be more useful to have elemental. However, I am only level eight, so what I really want to know is what the rest of the game is like. Am I going to regret not having construct soon? What's your advice?

I picked construct mostly because there are a good bunch of them in the Vault of Night content. Elemental is fine too, you shouldn't regret it.

Second, I'm wondering what your opinion is on the Trapmaking feat? Is is worthwhile for a non-rogue. As I mentioned above, I adjusted the tempest to handle traps, and I kind of want to add trapmaking. I realize that for the tempest I really can't spare the feats, but what about for someone a little less feat starved, like a 2 rogue/6 fighter/12 ranger?

To be honest I haven't tried trapmaking at all, maybe someone else can comment on this. But from what I've read, trapmaking sucks for rogues, so I wouldn't bother with it. Maybe in the future if they improve this ability...

[Dancingrage]

tihocan: any chance of an update to the Necromancer build now that it seems the Pale Master has a lot more going for it as a prestige class and can, it seems, solo a lot better, etc? I'm curious about going that route, only deterred by crappy solo ability, and I'd like to see your take on the new improved class.

[tihocan]

tihocan: any chance of an update to the Necromancer build now that it seems the Pale Master has a lot more going for it as a prestige class and can, it seems, solo a lot better, etc? I'm curious about going that route, only deterred by crappy solo ability, and I'd like to see your take on the new improved class.

Yep yep... though I think it'll be almost the same (I don't remember for sure).
I've been quite busy with holidays followed by return @ work, but I still intend on catching up on the numerous notes I've taken from various feedback

[AlacrityFitzhugh]

I want to make an elven Favored Soul - Divine Avenger. Looking at the pre-built path, there are some oddities (e.g., high-dex, two weapon fighting, but no weapon finesse). Any suggestions for this build?