Revisiting paths: Builds for new players

[tihocan]

These are good general guidelines to multiclassing, which is indeed quite complex. It's useful to examine what you're gaining and what you're losing by taking X levels of a second (or third) class over staying pure.

Yup, definitely My answer didn't mean to address this problem, just to answer the specific question, which was "when" to multiclass.

[fogelbee]

Great feedback from both of you, I'll be sure to take a look at some of the links from Fauxsho.

What I am thinking and I doubt I am the first but I want to get a elven ranger with rogue properties... get sneak attacks on bow shots and perform the role of scout for the group. I want to try to get as much sneak attack training in as possible while still getting 4-5 favored enemies. I am sure someone has done something like this, just wondering how best to do it.

Thanks and I am also looking forward to the Deepwood Sniper path.

[FauxSho]

Yup, definitely My answer didn't mean to address this problem, just to answer the specific question, which was "when" to multiclass.

I understand, I guess I focused on the more general "when" as opposed to the specific "when" as in sequence of class levels... that when is even more difficult than the "why" or "what" of multiclassing, I usually only figure out the sequence of class levels by fiddling around in the character builder once I've got a general build outline drafted.

Great feedback from both of you, I'll be sure to take a look at some of the links from Fauxsho.

What I am thinking and I doubt I am the first but I want to get a elven ranger with rogue properties... get sneak attacks on bow shots and perform the role of scout for the group. I want to try to get as much sneak attack training in as possible while still getting 4-5 favored enemies. I am sure someone has done something like this, just wondering how best to do it.

Thanks and I am also looking forward to the Deepwood Sniper path.

I'm also interested in seeing what tihocan does with the Deepwood Sniper path rework. As it stands (with only tier 1), Deepwood Sniper is quite underwhelming. Hopefully when further tiers are added it will be more attractive, because right now there's no reason to take DS over Arcane Archer.

Bear in mind that to get sneak attack damage, you have to be within 30 feet of your target, which is pretty much melee range. It makes it difficult to make ranged sneak attack damage worthwhile.

[tihocan]

I want to try to get as much sneak attack training in as possible while still getting 4-5 favored enemies.

Rangers get favored enemies every 5 levels (1, 5, 10, 15 and 20), so if you want at least 4 it means 15 levels of ranger, so a maximum 5 levels of rogue, which isn't a lot for sneak attacks (and more than 2 levels of rogue will lock you out of the tier III prestige enhancement from Ranger).

Thanks and I am also looking forward to the Deepwood Sniper path.

I'll probably wait as much as possible for Deepwood Sniper until this enhancement line is improved. Right now it is rather pointless to go for Deepwood when Arcane Archer is so much better.

[narook]

Firstly i'd like to say i love the builds. For a newbie like me it has started to help me get a grip on the differences between DDO and tabletop. Of course there is still a great deal that confuses me when i look at others builds, but that is probably just more to do with endgame stuff.

Anyway, onto the question i had, i think i rambled enough. In the soloability without hireling option, was that running the quests on solo or normal?

Also on some of your multiclass builds the feat numbers are actually out a touch due to it needing class level and not total level. Just thought i'd bring that up in case you didn't notice it. Keep up the great work, can't wait to see some more Paladin, Monk and FvS builds.

[Zachski]

I'm trying out the Dynamic Hand again, this time as a fleshie instead of a Warforged.

MUCH easier.

Wow, I can practically see the people looking at me weirdly.

The reason it's easier is because non-veterans don't get a docent for Warforged that gives them +1 Caster Level.

Fleshies of any sort, however, do.

And considering that, when following this build, you don't necessarily have any buffs that help you in melee combat (or you have to screw with the build to do so), magic is pretty important for a low level Sorcerer.

As far as healing goes, you can just grab a Cleric hireling. Especially one with Divine Vitality, since that's like having an additional 5 charges on your Archivist's Necklace.

I will say, though... I just hit level 3, and a Maximized Niac's with an improved freeze clickie will hit for over a 100 damage! (4d6 * (1 + 0.3 + 1.0))

By the way, I wish you luck with Virtuoso when you get to it, tihocan.

[tihocan]

Anyway, onto the question i had, i think i rambled enough. In the soloability without hireling option, was that running the quests on solo or normal?

I mostly had Normal in mind when thinking about the solo ratings (there are so few quests with the Solo setting I certainly didn't consider them). But it's mostly a relative rating, compared to other builds, and I'll have to go through them again at some point as I keep changing my mind while adding new builds So take these with a grain of salt.

Also on some of your multiclass builds the feat numbers are actually out a touch due to it needing class level and not total level. Just thought i'd bring that up in case you didn't notice it.

I didn't, do you have a specific example in mind? It's quite possible I made some mistakes and I'd rather fix them

[narook]

I mostly had Normal in mind when thinking about the solo ratings (there are so few quests with the Solo setting I certainly didn't consider them). But it's mostly a relative rating, compared to other builds, and I'll have to go through them again at some point as I keep changing my mind while adding new builds So take these with a grain of salt.

I figured that might be the case, but i wanted to ask anyway. Never know for sure until you do ask.

I didn't, do you have a specific example in mind? It's quite possible I made some mistakes and I'd rather fix them

The one that i can remember right off the top of my head was The Dark Blade, seeing how i am playing one at the moment. Improved Evasion (10), Crippling Strike (13) and Skill Mastery (16) all need to be increased by one as they are rogue level feats not total level, with that level at fighter at 2 it means you have them listed one level to early. I am pretty sure i spotted on in another build too, i will have to go through them again.

[narook]

I wish i noticed you had the TWF Paladin up before so i could of put all the questions in one post. From day one my plan was to have a Paladin, that is my norm for DnD. But i noticed most were TWF and needed at least dex and wis tomes. With the recent bonus point increase on Turbine points i figured i'd get the +2 tomes and roll the Paladin. Works well that your path is listed now. He will be 32 point Human as well. While the Drows starting stats are more suited the class needs to fit the race for me and i am afraid a Drow Paladin does not fit to me. He will be focusing on KotC from The Flame of Justice build instead of the HotD. Seeing how i read HotD is not as useful as DoS or KotC. Anyway, i do have a couple of questions on alterations and such.

1) Seeing how Khopesh's are the best weapons in the game and the price reflects that, could a newbie go Bastard Sword instead? Maybe late do a feat swap once the cash has been built up to afford Khopesh's?
2) Why do you have Follower of the Sovereign Host enhancement when none of the races are using longswords?
3) Could the Extend feat or the Improved Crit feat be swapped for Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting without effecting the build too much?
4) Is Power Attack actually useful at level 18? Or could i put the Improved Crit or Extend there if either were replaced with Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting?

[tihocan]

The one that i can remember right off the top of my head was The Dark Blade, seeing how i am playing one at the moment. Improved Evasion (10), Crippling Strike (13) and Skill Mastery (16) all need to be increased by one as they are rogue level feats not total level, with that level at fighter at 2 it means you have them listed one level to early. I am pretty sure i spotted on in another build too, i will have to go through them again.

Thanks, you're quite right! I fixed it in my own local files, will be done in this thread as well when I have more time for it. I'll look at other multiclassed builds as well to see if I see another similar issue.

[tihocan]

1) Seeing how Khopesh's are the best weapons in the game and the price reflects that, could a newbie go Bastard Sword instead? Maybe late do a feat swap once the cash has been built up to afford Khopesh's?
2) Why do you have Follower of the Sovereign Host enhancement when none of the races are using longswords?
3) Could the Extend feat or the Improved Crit feat be swapped for Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting without effecting the build too much?
4) Is Power Attack actually useful at level 18? Or could i put the Improved Crit or Extend there if either were replaced with Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting?

1. Yes you can do that.
2. You need one of the faith enhancement line to qualify for the tier III of KotC/HotD. I consider Unyielding Sovereignty to be the most useful one (except for Bladesworn which can be situationally nice, but is only for WF).
3. Extend: yes. Improved Crit: no, you need that one
4. Yes, Power Attack is important. I would have taken it sooner myself, but I thought a TWF Paladin without top-gear and great Str may not have such a good to-hit while leveling up, that's why it's at L18.

[narook]

1. Yes you can do that.
2. You need one of the faith enhancement line to qualify for the tier III of KotC/HotD. I consider Unyielding Sovereignty to be the most useful one (except for Bladesworn which can be situationally nice, but is only for WF).
3. Extend: yes. Improved Crit: no, you need that one
4. Yes, Power Attack is important. I would have taken it sooner myself, but I thought a TWF Paladin without top-gear and great Str may not have such a good to-hit while leveling up, that's why it's at L18.

I figured there was something i was missing with the faiths, that makes sense, thanks. I see your point on power attack. Better to take it later to avoid the temptation of turning it on and then the agrovation of missing. So i'll go with the bastard swords and swap out extend, at least for now. Thanks for the input.

[Andromar]

I've really enjoyed looking at (and building a few of) the revised paths in this thread. Looking at the Whirlwind Fighter, I've got a question about it's feats. Doesn't a fighter only get 1 feat at 4th and 2 at 6th (character feats at multiples of 3, fighter class feats at multiples of 2)? If that's true and I didn't miss something (wouldn't be the first time ), would it make sense to hold off on taking OTWF until 6th, and take WF:Slash at 3rd (so that you still get WS:Slash at 4th)?

Thanks for a lot of good information!

[tihocan]

I've really enjoyed looking at (and building a few of) the revised paths in this thread. Looking at the Whirlwind Fighter, I've got a question about it's feats. Doesn't a fighter only get 1 feat at 4th and 2 at 6th (character feats at multiples of 3, fighter class feats at multiples of 2)? If that's true and I didn't miss something (wouldn't be the first time ), would it make sense to hold off on taking OTWF until 6th, and take WF:Slash at 3rd (so that you still get WS:Slash at 4th)?

Thanks for a lot of good information!

Thanks, you're right, there's a typo in my feat list. This is not really surprising, Fighters get way too many feats
My goal was for Weapon Specialization: Slash to be taken at L6 instead of L4. Although you could do it your way as well, I have a slight preference for being able to dual wield khopeshes earlier without a -2 to-hit (which makes a difference at these levels). But it's not a big deal and if you don't mind using a light weapon in off-hand until you reach L6, you can definitely delay OTWF to 6 and enjoy +2 damage at L4-5

I'll be fixing it in the near future. Kinda busy atm :/

[Angelus_dead]

1) Seeing how Khopesh's are the best weapons in the game and the price reflects that, could a newbie go Bastard Sword instead?

That would not make sense, because a Bastard Sword is inferior to weapons you already know. You could simply use Scimitars instead, and put the feat into something random (Weapon Focus?). Note that Scimitars are even more superior for Paladins than other warriors, because Paladins have the Divine Sacrifice and Exalted Smite abilities that increase critical multiplier.

[Scylia]

Tihocan, thank you very much for your work on these builds. They've been hugely useful to me as a new player, and I point other new folks here whenever I see them asking about their paths. I really appreciate your effort.

[Father-Jero]

I agree with Scylia. This is very quite useful to a new player. After hearing people talk and reading through the forums, I was very worried that the first character I took to 20 would be completely useless and I'd have to reroll. Now he will be atleast somewhat useful, if not a great character.
Thank you for the time and work your putting into this. I appreciate it greatly, and I'm sure others do also (:

[Jiipster]

That would not make sense, because a Bastard Sword is inferior to weapons you already know. You could simply use Scimitars instead, and put the feat into something random (Weapon Focus?). Note that Scimitars are even more superior for Paladins than other warriors, because Paladins have the Divine Sacrifice and Exalted Smite abilities that increase critical multiplier.

My preference is Least Dragonmark of Passage. I dunno why, but Paladins and Clerics always seem to be slower than everyone else to me.

Make sure you grab Khopesh at 14 as latest; then you get Holy Sword.

[narook]

That would not make sense, because a Bastard Sword is inferior to weapons you already know. You could simply use Scimitars instead, and put the feat into something random (Weapon Focus?). Note that Scimitars are even more superior for Paladins than other warriors, because Paladins have the Divine Sacrifice and Exalted Smite abilities that increase critical multiplier.

My preference is Least Dragonmark of Passage. I dunno why, but Paladins and Clerics always seem to be slower than everyone else to me. Make sure you grab Khopesh at 14 as latest; then you get Holy Sword.

Thank you for your input but that is not going to happen. If i wanted to use an ugly weapon that doesn't fit in with the image then i would of went with the khopesh.

[tihocan]

Thanks for the kind words And sorry the thread is going a bit slow atm, RL's really busy and I don't have much time to dedicate to DDO. But it should start getting better near the end of the week