Revisiting paths: Builds for new players

[tihocan]

IMPORTANT:This is the old version of my Mechanic variant as a melee build. It is not being updated anymore, and is kept for reference only. For the new Mechanic build, look here

Master Mechanic (L20 Rogue)

Concept: Focus on traps, locks, and sneak, with still decent melee abilities
Original path's flaws: Str and Con too low and no Toughness, leading to too low damage and being way too squishy; also on non Human important Rogue skills are not all maxed out, particularly Search, making it weak in its supposedly strong area.
Main fixes: Increased Str and Con, swapped Weapon Focus for Toughness, ensured important skills are maxed out.

Alignment: Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Good, Neutral, Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, Lawful Good

Stats and Race (28/32 pt):
........Drow.....Dwarf......Elf.....Halfling...Human...Warforged.
.Str.....12........13......12/14.....11/12.......13......12/13...
.Dex.....18......16/17.......18........18......16/17.....16/17...
.Con.....12........15......12/13.....13/14.....13/14.......14....
.Int.....16........14........14......14/15.......14........14....
.Wis.....10........10........10........10........10........10....
.Cha.....10.......6/7........8.........8.........8.........6.....

Ability increase every 4 levels: All in Dex.

Skills (except Human and Drow): At all levels, keep maxed out Search, Disable Device, UMD, Open Locks, Spot, Balance, Diplomacy, Hide and Move Silently. Split your remaining points equally between Jump and Tumble.
Skills (Human and Drow): Same, but you should be able to max out both Jump and Tumble instead of splitting points between them.

Feats (by level), except Human: Two-Weapon Fighting (1), Weapon Finesse (3), Toughness (6), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (9), Improved Evasion (10), Improved Critical: Pierce (12), Skill Mastery (13), Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (15), Crippling Strike (16), Skill Focus: Search (18), Skill Mastery (19)
Feats (by level), Human: Two-Weapon Fighting (1), Toughness (1), Weapon Finesse (3), Skill Focus: Search (6), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (9), Improved Evasion (10), Improved Critical: Pierce (12), Skill Mastery (13), Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (15), Crippling Strike (16), Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting (18), Skill Mastery (19)

For more information about picking enhancements please read this post.
Enhancements (Rogue): Cheat Death (capstone), Dexterity II, Disable Device III, Fire Trap Lore I, Haste Boost III, Improved Trap Sense II, Mechanic II, Open Lock III, Search II, Skill Boost III, Sneak Attack Accuracy II, Sneak Attack Training II, Spot I, Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancements (Drow): Dexterity I, Enchantment Resistance I, Keen Eyes I, Melee Attack I, Melee Damage I, Perception I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Dwarf): Constitution I, Kundarak Search I, Racial Toughness II, Spell Defense II
Enhancements (Elf): Aerenal Melee Attack I, Aerenal Melee Damage I, Dexterity I, Enchantment Resistance I, Keen Eyes I, Perception I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Halfling): Cunning II, Dexterity I, Guile II, Luck (Reflex) I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Human): Adaptability Dexterity I, Improved Recovery I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Warforged): Constitution I, Healer's Friend II, Racial Toughness II

Soloability by level:
No hireling..: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
With hireling: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Tips:
- Early on, dual-wield a rapier in your main hand with a shortsword in your off-hand. Around mid levels you should be able to switch to dual rapiers without missing too much.
- Use Diplomacy to politely ask your opponents to attack someone else. This will let you land sneak attacks more reliably.
- You do not have to sneak to land sneak attacks. Read this page for more information on sneak attacks.
- If you ever get to the point (around L16) where you start running the Shroud raid regularly, consider crafting a Radiance rapier. It is a great weapon for such a build.
- Ultimately you would want to reach 39 UMD to be able to reliably use Heal scrolls. This can be achieved from 23 (base skill at L20) + 2 (Skill Mastery) + 3 (16 Cha with +6 item and +2 Cha tome) + 4 (Greater Heroism) + 1 (Voice of the Master) + 6 (exceptional bonus from Shroud raid item), which are reasonable items to obtain if you get all the way to level 20. In the meantime, accept you may fail some checks and rely on your skill boost to make it less likely.

Variants:
- You may make a Str-based version but it does not fit as well the spirit of the build (a sneaky agile trapsmith).
- The L18 feat may be replaced by Power Attack (some of the builds may need a tome for this, since it requires 13+ Str counting base and tomes only). This would help the damage output, especially against opponents who cannot be sneak-attacked.
- Although overall the Bluff skill is currently not worth investing into, it may be improved some day. And if you are planning to solo a lot, it can be somewhat useful to land more sneak attacks. To get Bluff, split some points between Balance, Jump and Tumble (instead of just Jump and Tumble) so that you can max out Bluff. Among Balance, Jump and Tumble, Balance is the most important, while you can stop investing in Jump and Tumble once you are comfortable with respectively how high you can jump, and from how high you can fall without taking too much damage. Note that a 40 Jump skill (with buffs) is the maximum you need, and at L18 you can obtain a Jump clicky that gives you +30 to it.

Color code: best to worst = green, yellow, orange, red

[Zachski]

Nice. Too bad, like you said, Mechanics are sort of a redundant class, focusing on something that any Rogue can do perfectly well anyways.

I'd actually like to see Acrobat and Necromancer done (mostly so I can see a decent Necromancer build out of curiosity), but I can be patient.

[tihocan]

Nice. Too bad, like you said, Mechanics are sort of a redundant class, focusing on something that any Rogue can do perfectly well anyways.

I'd actually like to see Acrobat and Necromancer done (mostly so I can see a decent Necromancer build out of curiosity), but I can be patient.

Yep, I thought hard about how to make a basic traps rogue as good as a DPS-oriented one, and I just can't see it work in DDO. There are probably more options if you decide to use deep multiclassing, but since eventually it seems like each path is meant to be associated to a prestige line going to tier III at L18, I don't want to lose more than 2 of the main class' levels.

Don't expect too much out of the Acrobat / Necro. They're probably going to be other instances of "how can I get something not too horrible out of this mess"

[Zachski]

I decided to test out Necro myself just to see how badly it's messed up.

Hmm, level 1 and no Ray of Enfeeblement...

stats put into Dex again, instead of Strength...

:< Help me....

EDIT: Okay, I can't do this anymore. I can't even stand one dungeon with a pre-built :<

[tihocan]

Well, TBH I haven't even looked at the Necro one yet. It's just the typical thing people think about when they hear Necro, which is also implied when you read the path description, is they kind of control powerful undead minions. Which doesn't work too well in DDO.
Basically if you make a full necro build in DDO you'll end up being rather weak, except in situations where FoD rocks. So I expect quite a challenge trying to balance the Necro focus with the overall utility of the build. We'll see

Edit: I doubt it'll have Ray of Enfeeblement at L1 though. A lot of new players tend to start characters solo and RoE is not a useful spell in this situation.

[Zachski]

By the way, something I was wondering about...

What's with Warforged being orange for Flame of Justice?

I know that they're weaker in both Wisdom and Charisma, but the Con boost helps, and the Charisma isn't that much worse...

Maybe you could also include something in the variants about being a Warforged?

Also, at the same time, I'm concerned about WF Barbarian. Namely because, sure, the race compliments the class, but does the race compliment the group? Warforged are hard for divine casters to heal, and Barbarians lack the UMD to effectively use a repair wand.

[tihocan]

What's with Warforged being orange for Flame of Justice?

I know that they're weaker in both Wisdom and Charisma, but the Con boost helps, and the Charisma isn't that much worse...

It's really mostly because of the Cha penalty (same reason Dwarf isn't advised). It makes it quite a lot harder to qualify for Divine Might IV, and the lower Wis also makes it more difficult to new players to get items to cast spells at low/mid level (edit: oh, and the healing penalty too of course). It doesn't mean it won't work though.

Maybe you could also include something in the variants about being a Warforged?

Not sure what you mean here.

Also, at the same time, I'm concerned about WF Barbarian. Namely because, sure, the race compliments the class, but does the race compliment the group? Warforged are hard for divine casters to heal, and Barbarians lack the UMD to effectively use a repair wand.

It's not that bad now, with many options for healing amplifications, clerics having strong Heals, and most arcanes carrying at least reconstruct scrolls to help when needed. WF is also particularly useful in a raid like VoD where you can get hit by a healing curse that prevents divine healing (but allows you to still get reconstructed).

[Zachski]

Not sure what you mean here.

Such as Adamantium Body, what to do to compensate for the Charisma penalty, etc.

[tihocan]

Such as Adamantium Body, what to do to compensate for the Charisma penalty, etc.

Ah yes, I kinda forgot about thinking of temporary WF body feats for most builds. I'll probably go through them all again at some point and mention it when it can be useful at low levels.
About what to do to compensate for Cha penalty: I don't have anything to add about that at this point (the WF version is how I'd handle it, I think it's fine, if you have suggestions to improve it, I'm listening ).

[tihocan]

Elementalist (L20 Wizard)

Concept: Wizard focused on dishing out a lot of damage through spells
Original path's flaws: Points invested in Dex are wasted once Insightful Reflexes is obtained, Extend is taken too late, no Toughness except on Human
Main fixes: Increased Con a bit for more survivability, and switched some feats around (in particular dropping Enlarge for Quicken and Insightful Reflexes for Toughness)

Alignment: Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Good, Neutral, Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, Lawful Good

Stats and Race (28/32 pt):
........Drow.....Dwarf......Elf.....Halfling...Human...Warforged.
.Str.....10........10........10........10......10/11.......10....
.Dex.....10.......8/10.......10........10........8........8/9....
.Con.....14........18......14/15.....15/16.......16......17/18...
.Int.....20........18........18........18........18........18....
.Wis.....8........8/10......8/9.......8/10......8/11......8/9....
.Cha.....10........6.........8.........8.........8.........6.....

Ability increase every 4 levels: All in Int.

Skills: At all levels keep maxed out Concentration, UMD, Balance, Diplomacy and Move Silently. Put 1 rank (two skill points) into Tumble at character creation only. Spend points into Jump until you can reach +10 before casting the Jump spell. Put rest into Hide, and when you get extra points, invest in Spot.

Feats (by level), except Human: Empower (1), Toughness (1), Maximize (3), Extend (5), Spell Focus: Evocation (6), Mental Toughness (9), Heighten (10), Greater Spell Focus: Evocation (12), Quicken (15), Spell Penetration (15), Greater Spell Penetration (18), Improved Mental Toughness (20)
Feats (by level), Human: Same, but take Mental Toughness at L1 and Insightful Reflexes at L9.

For more information about picking enhancements please read this post.
Enhancements (Wizard): Elemental Manipulation IV, Energy Manipulation III, Energy of the Scholar II, Improved Empowering II, Improved Heightening I, Improved Maximizing II, Improved Spell Penetration I, Intelligence II, Lineage of Deadly Elements III, Lineage of Deadly Energy II, Lineage of Elements III, Lineage of Energy II, Master of Magic (capstone)
Enhancements (Drow): Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Dwarf): Constitution I, Racial Toughness II, Spell Defense I
Enhancements (Elf): Arcanum I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Halfling): Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Human): Adaptability Intelligence I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Warforged): Constitution I, Force Manipulation II, Inscribed Armor I (must take early), Racial Toughness II, Wand and Scroll Mastery II

Spells taken when leveling up.
Be careful that the main goal of this list is not to give you the best spells, but to ensure you get most spells whose scrolls cannot be bought from vendors. Other important spells should be manually inscribed in your spell book, buying scrolls as needed. If you cannot afford them all, try to get at least those listed in the Dynamic Hand Sorcerer build (also use this list to pick alternate spells when leveling up if you happen to already have some of the spells below in your spell book). NOTE: this list is not quite up-to-date and will be updated in the future.

• L1: Acid Spray / Burning Hands / Expeditious Retreat / Mage Armor / Magic Missile / Niac's Cold Ray / Shield
• L2: Hypnotism / Jump
• L3: Electric Loop / Snowball Storm
• L4: Resist Energy / Scorching Ray
• L5: Acid Blast / Haste
• L6: Chain Missiles / Frost Lance
• L7: Dimension Door / Wall of Fire
• L8: Solid Fog / Symbol of Flame
• L9: Cone of Cold / Protection from Elements
• L10: Cloudkill / Symbol of Pain
• L11: Acid Fog / Symbol of Persuasion
• L12: Create Undead / Symbol of Fear
• L13: Delayed Blast Firewall / Prismatic Spray
• L14: Otto's Sphere of Dancing / Protection from Elements, Mass
• L15: Otto's Irresistible Dance / Polar Ray
• L16: Horrid Wilting / Trap the Soul
• L17: Energy Drain / Wail of the Banshee
• L18: Mass Charm Monster / Summon Monster IX
• L19: Hold Monster, Mass / Meteor Swarm
• L20: Incendiary Cloud / Sunburst

Special note (Warforged) Same spell selection, except that at L1 Burning Hands should be replaced with Repair Light Damage, then you should make sure you always buy and inscribe the appropriate Repair spell when you gain access to a new level of spells (note: Repair Mass scrolls cannot be bought, but unless you are playing with a static group or guild of Warforged players, there is no hurry to get them... the most important Repair spells to inscribe are Repair Moderate, Repair Serious and Reconstruct).

Soloability by level (except Warforged):
No hireling..: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
With hireling: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Soloability by level (Warforged):
No hireling..: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
With hireling: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Tips:
- Be aware that casting only damage spells is not a realistic viable playtstyle throughout the whole game. Spell damage shines in the 7-12 level range, then gets more and more situationally useful as you level up. This is the reason why this build is still meant to be effective with Crowd-Control and Insta-kill spells, taking the two Spell Penetration feats even though they are not useful for direct damage spells (that ignore Spell Resistance in DDO).
- Casting damage-oriented spells requires some careful spell point management. Spamming empowered/maximized/heightened spells can be a lot of fun, but do not expect to always be able to kill everything this way, as it will drain spell points very fast: learn to turn on and off your Metamagic feats.
- Focus mostly on fire and cold spells, relying on acid/lightning in situations where the former are not effective.
- At low level, the Shield and Mage Armor spells can be useful to boost your AC. However, later on this will not be enough, and your best options to avoid punishment will be fast movement (Haste), Blur/Displacement, Jump, Diplomacy, and crowd control spells.
- To solo in the earliest levels, it can be easier to buff yourself and swing a staff (with the highest + you can find) than to try and get everything done with spells.
- With items boosting your Hide/Move Silently and the Invisibility spell, you will have enough sneaking ability to be able to avoid some encounters or approach monsters with stealth to get in spell-casting range. It can also be useful to make sure monsters target your pet, hireling or teammates when an encounter starts.
- Carry large stacks of spell components. Running out of them in the middle of a quest can be embarrassing.
- There is a lot to learn from MrCow's videos, especially about soloing with a Warforged caster.

Variants:
- This build will most likely be updated in the future to take advantage of the Archmage enhancements.
- On a non Warforged, UMD may be very useful to heal yourself at higher levels. However, this is not the purpose of this build (where UMD is taken mostly because of the lack of truly useful skills, and it can prove handy sometimes). UMD for self-heal requires some investment in gear (e.g. Golden Cartouche from Delera, Head of Good Fortune from Reaver raid, crafted item from Shroud raid, +Cha tome, ...), and a few tweaks in the build: first, Cha should be raised to 12-14 (at the expense of lower stats like Str/Dex/Wis preferably); then the feat Skill Focus: UMD should be taken. Human is recommended for the extra feat and the Human Versatility enhancement (because of the skill boost).
- The Insightufl Reflexes feat can be worth picking if you have trouble dodging AoE spells and timing traps. The Human version of this build already gets it, and for other races it could replace Mental Toughness, Greater Spell Focus: Evocation or Greater Spell Penetration. If you are planning to take this feat, do not invest any point in Dex at character creation.
- This build, the Necromancer and The Ingenious Sage Wizard paths are all pure caster builds, able to perform all typical caster tasks. More original builds could for instance splash rogue (to handle traps and locks and more survivability through Evasion / UMD) or some melee class (for a mixed caster/melee build). But such advanced options are not considered by the original paths provided in DDO, and thus are out of the scope of this guide (note they are also more difficult to build right, and often require more gear to be effective).

Color code: best to worst = green, yellow, orange, red

[Squirrels123]

Thanks man.

Starting to get the hang of speccing and such. These builds have been a huge help.

[Mellifera]

+1 Excellent job!

[gregUK]

Is the Warpriest of siberys next? hoping so, as new to game and just started one

[tihocan]

Is the Warpriest of siberys next? hoping so, as new to game and just started one

Yep, coming soon (and not the Turbine soon )

[tihocan]

Warpriest of Siberys (L19 Cleric/L1 Fighter)

Concept: Cleric who is able to contribute to melee damage, while remaining a decent healer and offensive spellcaster
Original path's flaws: Going sword and board (which is not a long term viable way to contribute in melee), giving up too much offensive spellcasting (some level-up points in Str, no Maximize), and no Toughness
Main fixes: Going two-handed fighting for higher damage output (splashing Fighter for proficiencies and an extra feat), with more HPs and better offensive spellcasting abilities

Multi-class progression <- click for more info: Create your character as a Cleric, then take your second level as Fighter, then levels 3 to 20 as Cleric
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Good, Neutral, Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, Lawful Good

Stats and Race (28/32 pt):
........Drow.....Dwarf......Elf.....Halfling...Human...Warforged.
.Str.....16........16........16........14........16........16....
.Dex.....10........8.........10........10........10........8.....
.Con.....13......16/18.....12/14.....14/16.....14/16.....16/18...
.Int.....10........10........10........10........8.........10....
.Wis.....16........16........16........16........16........14....
.Cha.....10........6.........8.........8.........8.........6.....

Ability increase every 4 levels: All in Wis.

Skills: At character creation, max out Concentration, get one rank in Tumble and spend the rest into Balance. On further levels spend your two skill points in Concentration and Balance.

Feats (by level), except Human: Toughness (1), Power Attack (2), Extend (3), Empower Healing (6), Maximize (9), Improved Critical: Slash (12), Quicken (15), Two-Handed Fighting (18)
Feats (by level), Human: Toughness (1), Extend (1), Power Attack (2), Empower Healing (3), Maximize (6), Quicken (9), Improved Critical: Slash (12), Two-Handed Fighting (15), Spell Penetration (18)
Special note: The feat progresion for all races was modified on 2010/10/06 to be able to pick the Radiant Servant enhancement line earlier. If you started this build prior to this date, you can find the old feat progression to follow in this post.

For more information about picking enhancements please read this post.
Enhancements (Cleric): Divine Vitality I, Energy of the Zealot I, Follower of the Sovereign Host, Heal II, Improved Spell Penetration I, Improved Turning I, Life Magic III, Prayer of Incredible Life II, Prayer of Life II, Radiant Servant II, Unyielding Sovereignty, Wand and Scroll Mastery II, Wisdom II
Enhancements (Figther): Haste Boost I, Toughness I
Enhancements (Drow): Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Dwarf): Axe Attack II, Axe Damage II, Constitution I, Faith I, Racial Toughness II, Spell Defense II
Enhancements (Elf): Racial Toughness II, Valenar Elf Melee Attack II, Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancements (Halfling): Cunning II, Guile II, Hero's Companion III, Luck (Fortitude) I, Luck (Reflex) I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Human): Adaptability Strength I, Improved Recovery I, Racial Toughness II, Versatility III
Enhancements (Warforged): Combat Training I, Constitution I, Great Weapon Aptitude II, Hardiness I, Healer's Friend I, Racial Toughness II

Soloability by level:
No hireling..: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
With hireling: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Tips:
- Even though you can fight, people will typically expect you to act as the party healer. If for some reason you do not want to take this role, make sure you make it clear before starting the quest (and note that this build is meant to be a party healer).
- At level 2 you can start wielding a two-handed weapon. If Dwarf, use a Greataxe. If Elf, use a Falchion. Otherwise, use either a Falchion, Greataxe or Greatsword.
- Armor-wise, use the best Full Plate you can find up to mid-levels (ideally Adamantine for the Damage Reduction). You may even switch to a one-handed weapon + shield when you are being hit too much compared to your wand supply. However, at some point (typically around L13 when you move into Gianthold), you can stop worrying about AC and simply favor armor (or robes/outfits) with useful effects.
- Remember you can also cast offensive spells (e.g. at low level Command / Soundburst, then later Greater Command, Slay Living, Blade Barrier, Cometfall, Destruction, Implosion...). At the higher levels (15+), carry a weapon of Improved Shattermantle to compensate for the lack of Spell Penetration to overcome Spell Resistance.
- Useful buffs include Divine Favor, Divine Power, Prayer, Recitation (and Bless / Bull's Strength at low levels).
- At lower levels and until your Balance score gets high enough, you will benefit from wearing an item of Balance, to avoid being kept down for too long when tripped.

Variants:
- You may prefer to entirely give up on offensive spellcasting to focus only on your melee ability. This remains viable although you typically lose more than you gain this way (at least for most of your way from L1 to L20, since a melee focus may work better in Epic quests at L20). This can be done by dropping Wis to max out Str (taking level-ups in Str as well). Feats should be re-arranged to take Improved and Greater Two-Handed Fighting: to achieve this, you may drop Spell Penetration (on Human) and/or Maximize and/or Empower Healing. It is recommended to keep one of Maximize/Empower Healing for mass Cure spells, unless you do not want to be a healer at all (keep Maximize if you still intend to do meaningful damage through Blade Barriers). On a non Human, this would mean taking a 2nd level of Fighter for the extra bonus feat, which would also give +1 Str through the Fighter enhancement.
- An example of such a melee-focused build was posted by Sirgog here (note that it is based on an older template of the build above).
- On the contrary, if you find yourself enjoying insta-kill spells at high level, you may want to increase your Spell Penetration: replace Maximize or Empower Healing by Spell Penetration (on a Human, this would make room for Greater Spell Penetration). Another casting-oriented option, but focused on damage rather than insta-kill, is to take the Empower Spell feat, mostly for deadly Maximized + Empowered Blade Barriers.
- Instead of Follower of the Sovereign Host and Unyielding Sovereignty, a Warforged may take Follower of the Lord of Blades and Bladesworn Transformation. The main benefit would be +1 to-hit with greatswords (the transformation itself is difficult to use effectively, due to not being able to self-heal while under its effect).
- Note that this build currently takes advantage of the Radiant Servant prestige enhancement line, but once Warpriest enhancements are released, it will be modified to take them instead.

Color code: best to worst = green, yellow, orange, red

[gregUK]

Brilliant Tihocan!!!

Thanks a lot, i will follow this build through

[gregUK]

A quick question, i have tried to follow the feats but i think i may have messed up somewhere.

I am level 2 (rank 7), and rolled a cleric, then took fighter at level 2. I have checked my feats but i am sure that so far i have only been able to take 2. One at lvl 1 and one more at lvl 2. Is this right??

On your build, you are saying i should have taken Toughness and 2H fighting at 1 and Power Attack at 2. I have Toughness and 2HF so far. Am i on track, or am i missing one somewhere and should have PA by now?

Thanks

Edit--- plz ignore, i was thick and copied Human feats... hence why i am behind on my dwarf!!!

[Atoro87]

Back again, I re-rolled a Halfling Dark Blade since I was sick of not being able to use about anything and go about anywhere with my Dwarf Vanguard Warrior and I've been enjoying it quite a bit.

On the positive side I'm consitently amongst the top 3 killers, if not the top killer, for any given party. As long as I'm racking off sneak attacks, which is almost always now thanks to subtle backstabbing and dilpomacy most of the time, I'm generating more DPS than alot of other characters. The toughness feat and corresponding enhancements make me hardy for a rogue, and the two of these things together make me pretty lethal up on the front lines or flanking. I've gotten yelled for jumping into the fray one minute only to have party members waiting on me because I'm the kill ***** in the party.

There are a couple of things that hinder me a bit though. Firstly if a MOB isn't sneak attackable, like those **** undead, I'm slightly screwed in terms of damage output. Any words of wisdom on that end? I love running Delara's, but I spend most of it swapping between light maces and flametouched whatever, and in general feeling a little useless. Tear of Dhaakan on the other hand is a breeze, those hobgoblin's never see it coming!

Another issue is that the fighter splash early on, while I understand the reason for it, knocks your rogue levels back. For me this means I've got skills that I can't max for my level, for example a 10.5 search instead of hitting 11 where I want it. I know the point of this build is to be a cold-blooded killer but I do get some negative feed back for not springing a lock or finding a control box, people still expect me to be a level 8 rogue when I'm effectively a 7. I'm pretty sure I'm under-geared but what I do have is set for augmenting my attack. My question here is should I be speccing for killing and gearing for trap/lock skills to be most viable, should I just be patient and continue maxing, or should I just make sure the party brings another rogue and accept the role of support DPS solely?

[tihocan]

Firstly if a MOB isn't sneak attackable, like those **** undead, I'm slightly screwed in terms of damage output. Any words of wisdom on that end?

That's an issue with all rogues. Basically, you need good weapons for this time of monster, so try to get your hands on [greater] undead, elemental and construct banes. Other than that, at L6 you get Power Attack, which you should turn on to help in this situation (having a greater bane will also compensate for the to-hit loss).

Another issue is that the fighter splash early on, while I understand the reason for it, knocks your rogue levels back. For me this means I've got skills that I can't max for my level, for example a 10.5 search instead of hitting 11 where I want it.

Hmm ****, that's a good point, I totally forgot to say how to deal with the loss of skill points due to the fighter level, I'm sorry Sadly it means you permanently gimped yourself by getting a .5 in search, because you'll always be 1 point behind. At least it's not a huge deal (and if you ever decide to do a lesser or greater reincarnate you can fix it).

people still expect me to be a level 8 rogue when I'm effectively a 7.

Traps and locks shoulnd't be an issue. If you can't get them then you are doing something wrong (unless you're talking about running Elite quests under level, which can be tough sometimes without good gear). Remember you can use your skill boost, cat's grace and fox cunning potions, heroism potions, best thieves tools you can get your hands on (can buy +3 from free agents favor), and appropriate search / disable device / open locks items (which can be bought off AH/brokers if you can't get any yourself). You don't need all of this to get the "rogue job" done, but if you are using none, you'll definitely have trouble sometimes. And of course you need max ranks in skills, something I'll get to fix right now because it was a bad mistake on my side, sorry again.

[Atoro87]

Thanks tihocan, I had totally forgotten to grab skill boost and wasn't really using my UMD at all. Now with a wand of fox's cunning and skill boost my rogue is working great as a trap monkey when he's needed for it. I just got Drow fir the first time so I rolled your Flame of Justice rebuild as my first serious alt so get ready for some more questions! Thankks again man.