Revisiting paths: Builds for new players

[tihocan]

...which would be different beign warforfed? I'm rolling a similar wizard/fighter warforged build, but two-hander instead of two weapon wielder. For now, it's been very funny...

Yes, WF works better for self-heals. Or/and a splash of rogue for UMD (and possibly traps + locks for even more self-sufficiency).

[tihocan]

read some more i raised it to 12

Spending 6 APs for +2 Int is a bit of a waste on such a build. The only purpose of Int is to be able to cast spells, which you can achieve with a +Int item.
Though if you want to avoid wasting an item slot on a +Int item, it can be ok, but in this case I'd suggest to start with 11 Int so you only spend 2 APs for +1 (and a +2 tome to reach the target 14 Int).

[tihocan]

Hello, again! Still having a great time and am also leveling the Dark Blade. Now, I want to try a Fighter build.

RE: Stalwart build notes:



I cannot find any 18Fighter/2Paladin builds anywhere. They are all 18Pal/2Fighter. I would love to try out your suggestion above. Can anyone point me to more info? I am worried about picking the right feats, and the character planner doesn't work for me.

I have 32pt builds unlocked (no Drow yet).

1) What stats should I lower to raise my CHA and which race would be best?
2) What feats would you switch out and when?
3) Any particular Paladin enhancements I should use/other enhancements that would work better going this route?
4) Is this not really a viable build for soloing and that's why there are more pally/fighter splash builds?

If it's easier to link to something, that would be really great. I've tried google and searching the forums. Thanks again!

Well, first of all thanks for quoting me, by reading what I wrote I realized I wrote Greater TWF instead of THF. I'll get it fixed soon (TM)

1. You could go Human 15/14/14/14/8/14 (if you can get a +1 Int tome, start with 12 Int / 15 Cha instead) and drop Lightning Reflexes.

2. As far as the exact feat layout is concerned, I can't be 100% sure because I don't really have time to go through the whole thing again (and it also depends when you take your Paladin levels), but at first glance you should be able to pretty much follow the same plan, shifting just a few feats as needed.

3. I don't think there's really any "must-have" L1-2 paladin enhancements. Could take Saves Boost I guess if you got some extra APs?

4. Melee builds in general aren't very good at soloing when they don't have some easy self-heal ability. A Paladin is a bit better thanks to Lay on Hands and Cure spells. UMD builds are also more appropriate for this. Builds that solo most easily are typicallly casters who can melee, self-heal, and kill through spells (cleric, favored souls, warforged arcanes). But currently pretty much any class can solo a lot of the content, thanks to dungeon scaling.... a fighter is just not the class that will have the easiest time alone.

[Zachski]

It seems like Mechanic is actually going to be viable after U5, what with being able to add an Int bonus to damage with crossbows, getting automatic Repeating Crossbow feats (Light at I, then Heavy at II), and the make-or-break deal, making traps.

Boy, U5's gonna require you to revamp a lot of stuff, isn't it? lol

[tihocan]

It seems like Mechanic is actually going to be viable after U5, what with being able to add an Int bonus to damage with crossbows, getting automatic Repeating Crossbow feats (Light at I, then Heavy at II), and the make-or-break deal, making traps.

Boy, U5's gonna require you to revamp a lot of stuff, isn't it? lol

Hopefully it'll be delayed

[Olds-cool]

Sorcerer builds please.

Love what I've seen so far.

[Ikeas]

Just for fun... one of the paths I'm enjoying more is the warchanter one. I'm thinking in a build similar to that one, mainly for soloing/favor proposes. Let me know what do you think:

-Level 12/8 human bard/barbarian: Able to cast pretty good buffs and all the non-mass healing spells; with warchanter + enhancements, able to inspire +6 damage with songs; DR 5/- from barbarian levels + enhancements; pretty cool to-hit (+17 BAB at lvl 20); good base saves (+10/+10/+10 at lvl 20).

-Stats 16 10 16 8 8 14 - Nice combat power (as I plan to be two hander), enough CHA to cast spells without much level items, nice HP (as long as bards are squishy). WILL not very important IMO, good save anyways, and INT is just for skills in that kind of build, and bard + human covers them.

-Skills: As usual, balance, perform, UMD, jump, haggle, concentration, +1 tumble. Of those, just UMD and Perform will be maxed out; others will end at +15 ranks.

-Feats: Same as tihocan's build, but looses Empower Healing (not so necessary since it is no a party healer).

-Enhancements: Of course, warchanter, but also all the Inspire Courage boosts I could afford, some extra rage/extend rage, wand mastery, DR improvement, Song Magics, Lingerings.

What do you think? Any other level combination between barbarian and bard? Things to change? Any idea?

Thanks for reading!

[tihocan]

Just for fun... one of the paths I'm enjoying more is the warchanter one. I'm thinking in a build similar to that one, mainly for soloing/favor proposes. Let me know what do you think:

-Level 12/8 human bard/barbarian: Able to cast pretty good buffs and all the non-mass healing spells; with warchanter + enhancements, able to inspire +6 damage with songs; DR 5/- from barbarian levels + enhancements; pretty cool to-hit (+17 BAB at lvl 20); good base saves (+10/+10/+10 at lvl 20).

-Stats 16 10 16 8 8 14 - Nice combat power (as I plan to be two hander), enough CHA to cast spells without much level items, nice HP (as long as bards are squishy). WILL not very important IMO, good save anyways, and INT is just for skills in that kind of build, and bard + human covers them.

-Skills: As usual, balance, perform, UMD, jump, haggle, concentration, +1 tumble. Of those, just UMD and Perform will be maxed out; others will end at +15 ranks.

-Feats: Same as tihocan's build, but looses Empower Healing (not so necessary since it is no a party healer).

-Enhancements: Of course, warchanter, but also all the Inspire Courage boosts I could afford, some extra rage/extend rage, wand mastery, DR improvement, Song Magics, Lingerings.

What do you think? Any other level combination between barbarian and bard? Things to change? Any idea?

Thanks for reading!

It should work and be fun. The main issue would be being unable to cast & use wands / scrolls while raging. In my build the Barbarian level is mostly for fun as you don't have many rages, so you can pick a short period of time to Rage, and be done with it. With 8 levels of Barbarian you'll be able (and willing) to rage more often, which will make it sometimes difficult to properly balance Rage vs. casting. That being said, it's not a build breaker, just a little annoyance you should expect to have to live with.

You'll probably find some raid groups not willing to take a class split like this one, but most of the time, you shouold be welcome.

As far as alternate splits similar to these: mostly depends on what kinds of enhancements Bard 12 & Barb 8 get you, compared to slithly more of less levels in these classes. I don't know them by heart, but you should definitely check that (keeping in mind Warchanter II should eventually come out some day).

[picaresque]

As many others have said before me, this is a fantastic post, tihocan. Your hard work is much appreciated and your patience as well as you now perform customer support for this great guide. I've been looking all over the forums for a halfling Exploiter, but having read up on your Tempest build I think I'll lean more in that direction, (even though you were thoughtful enough to provide some information on making an Exploiter variant.)

I decided to shell out for a 32-point build option (because it's a halfling and it's not easy being wee), so I'm wondering what your advice would be in that instance. He looks like this at the moment:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Halfling Tempest
Level 1 Neutral Good Halfling Male
(1 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 31
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 0
Fortitude: 3
Reflex: 7
Will: 2

                  Starting          
Abilities        Base Stats         
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          
Strength             16             
Dexterity            16             
Constitution         14             
Intelligence         10             
Wisdom               10             
Charisma              8             

                  Starting          
                 Base Skills        
Skills           (Level 1)          
Balance               6             
Bluff                -1             
Concentration         4             
Diplomacy            -1             
Disable Device        n/a           
Haggle                3             
Heal                  0             
Hide                  3             
Intimidate           -1             
Jump                  7             
Listen                0             
Move Silently         3             
Open Lock             7             
Perform              n/a            
Repair                0             
Search                4             
Spot                  4             
Swim                  3             
Tumble                4             
Use Magic Device      3             

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I

The main question here is on the 10 INT. Obviously there are other ways to go with the extra points, but the extra skill points would allow me to keep the UMD and Open Lock maxed, and Search or Concentration maxed as well. Any thoughts on where the extra Attribute points would be better spent for maximum fun and usefulness? Thoughts on Search vs. Concentration? (And how tomes will fit in? And what item to grab at Misery Peak? (And, and, and...)

[tihocan]

The main question here is on the 10 INT. Obviously there are other ways to go with the extra points, but the extra skill points would allow me to keep the UMD and Open Lock maxed, and Search or Concentration maxed as well. Any thoughts on where the extra Attribute points would be better spent for maximum fun and usefulness? Thoughts on Search vs. Concentration? (And how tomes will fit in? And what item to grab at Misery Peak? (And, and, and...)

Unless you're going for Disable Device as well, Search is useless. The only tome that can make a difference to get early for such a build would be a +2 Int tome for skill points. At Misery Peak, grab the Archivist Necklace if you are concerned about long term usefulness, and the Anger set otherwise.

[Adalita]

The main question here is on the 10 INT. Obviously there are other ways to go with the extra points, but the extra skill points would allow me to keep the UMD and Open Lock maxed, and Search or Concentration maxed as well. Any thoughts on where the extra Attribute points would be better spent for maximum fun and usefulness? Thoughts on Search vs. Concentration? (And how tomes will fit in? And what item to grab at Misery Peak? (And, and, and...)

I have a Drow Tempest ranger currently 14 rng / 1 fgt / 1 rog with the similar starting stats (16 / 16 / 14 / 10 / 10 / 10). With 6 points per level I've kept UMD, DD, search and spot maxed at each level and its worked great. It helps that both search and spot are class skills. I've never needed concentration because the ranger spells have quite short casting times, and you can always run away! Any tomes you get will only increase your effectiveness, I've only had one +2 CON so far. Don't forget to equip a CHA item to boost your UMD.

BTW when your spot hits 20 or so (with spot item) you may have to up your graphics settings in order for the game to display what you can "see". You can then then range stuff with your bow outside of the range the mob will react to you. Had a great time burning through arrows in the Menechtarun Sands.

[Brennie]

Hey Tihocan!

Excellent builds! I find then when I'm surfing the new/free player forums, it saves me time and energy to simply leave your build guide open (Makes the inevitable repeated linking back here so much easier!)

I am also not ashamed to say that I have been following several of your 28 point guides on many of my characters (since i have this habit of never getting passed level 14ish before i want to try something new, leaving me without the favor for 32 point builds, and needing a fresh supply of new character builds on a regular basis).

Quick Question: Several changes are coming up in U5. Are you planning on re-tailoring your builds to the new system?

For instance, will you be changing rogue mechanic to focus on dex and int, while picking up ranged feats? Or (the one I'm more interested in) changing the Dark Blade to be pureclass, for that yummy, yummy capstone? Or changing Ninja Spy and Font of Healing so that it incorperates their new PrEs?

I realize that is just compounding the extra work you'd need to do, but i would seriously hate to see your most amazing build guide fall into outdatedness! How else will i sound knowledgable and worldly when i can solve all of a new players build issue by simply linking them to one of your guides :P?!

[Aegapae]

Just for fun... one of the paths I'm enjoying more is the warchanter one. I'm thinking in a build similar to that one, mainly for soloing/favor proposes. Let me know what do you think:

-Level 12/8 human bard/barbarian: Able to cast pretty good buffs and all the non-mass healing spells; with warchanter + enhancements, able to inspire +6 damage with songs; DR 5/- from barbarian levels + enhancements; pretty cool to-hit (+17 BAB at lvl 20); good base saves (+10/+10/+10 at lvl 20).

-Stats 16 10 16 8 8 14 - Nice combat power (as I plan to be two hander), enough CHA to cast spells without much level items, nice HP (as long as bards are squishy). WILL not very important IMO, good save anyways, and INT is just for skills in that kind of build, and bard + human covers them.

-Skills: As usual, balance, perform, UMD, jump, haggle, concentration, +1 tumble. Of those, just UMD and Perform will be maxed out; others will end at +15 ranks.

-Feats: Same as tihocan's build, but looses Empower Healing (not so necessary since it is no a party healer).

-Enhancements: Of course, warchanter, but also all the Inspire Courage boosts I could afford, some extra rage/extend rage, wand mastery, DR improvement, Song Magics, Lingerings.

What do you think? Any other level combination between barbarian and bard? Things to change? Any idea?

Thanks for reading!

Bard 14 receives +1 attack and damage to the song. Bard 15 receives the AC song. I've seen 14 Bard/6 Barb work, and also 14 Bard/6 Ranger. Just be aware that only 12 Bard is likely to not be nearly as welcome in raids or epics as 14 or 15 Bard or better, unless the group already has pretty stellar DPS and doesn't care about AC.

[tihocan]

Quick Question: Several changes are coming up in U5. Are you planning on re-tailoring your builds to the new system?

Yes.

For instance, will you be changing rogue mechanic to focus on dex and int, while picking up ranged feats? Or (the one I'm more interested in) changing the Dark Blade to be pureclass, for that yummy, yummy capstone? Or changing Ninja Spy and Font of Healing so that it incorperates their new PrEs?

I haven't seriously thought about it yet. Some are likely to change, some may just be "variants". I haven't been following the Lamannia stuff very closely, so not sure yet what will happen exactly

[prng]

Thank you very much for your build guides. I'm finding them very helpful. I have a question, though, regarding one of the enhancements you recommended for Dwarf rogues (see below):

Thief-Acrobat (L20 Rogue)

[...]

Feats (by level), except Human: Toughness (1), Stunning Blow (3), Two-Handed Fighting (6), Power Attack (9), Improved Evasion (10), Improved Critical: Bludgeon (12), Crippling Strike (13), Improved Two-Handed Fighting (15), Skill Mastery (16), Greater Two-Handed Fighting (18), Slippery Mind (19)

[...]

Enhancements (Dwarf): Constitution I, Kundarak Search I, Racial Toughness II, Spell Defense II, Tactics II

[...]

One of the recommendations was Kundarak Search I (quoted above for Thief Acrobat, although this was also found in The Dark Blade and Master Mechanic guides). If I'm understanding this correctly, it seems I need a Dragonmark feat to obtain this enhancement. However, I'm unsure of which feat can be dropped in favor of this. Which one would you recommend?

Thank you for your help!

[EKKM]

As many others have said before me, this is a fantastic post, tihocan. Your hard work is much appreciated and your patience as well as you now perform customer support for this great guide. I've been looking all over the forums for a halfling Exploiter, but having read up on your Tempest build I think I'll lean more in that direction, (even though you were thoughtful enough to provide some information on making an Exploiter variant.)

I decided to shell out for a 32-point build option (because it's a halfling and it's not easy being wee), so I'm wondering what your advice would be in that instance. He looks like this at the moment:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Halfling Tempest
Level 1 Neutral Good Halfling Male
(1 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 31
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 0
Fortitude: 3
Reflex: 7
Will: 2

                  Starting          
Abilities        Base Stats         
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          
Strength             16             
Dexterity            16             
Constitution         14             
Intelligence         10             
Wisdom               10             
Charisma              8             

The main question here is on the 10 INT. Obviously there are other ways to go with the extra points, but the extra skill points would allow me to keep the UMD and Open Lock maxed, and Search or Concentration maxed as well. Any thoughts on where the extra Attribute points would be better spent for maximum fun and usefulness? Thoughts on Search vs. Concentration? (And how tomes will fit in? And what item to grab at Misery Peak? (And, and, and...)

I would not max STR if you want to keep your rogue skills up. Even dropping to 15 gives you 3 more build point (say 2 INT and 1 chr) to 14 would you give you 6 more points (INT 14 and CHR 10 or WIS 12). My general rule is that maxing a stat on a non-caster is usually not worth the investment. That said, I don't make "pure" DPS builds.

[Jinteki]

I like the way your Tempest build is set up, but I also truly enjoy sniping. I set my Object Draw Distance to Ultra High and snipe without taking aggro and it makes me giggle like a schoolgirl. Sometimes, especially as I get higher in level, it just takes far longer than I'd like. I've never TR'd before, but I want to know before I do so. If I were to start as a Tempest, how many times would I have to TR to incorporate the potential 1-hit ko/severe damage Deepwood Sniper promises while still maintaining a fully functional Tempest? As it stands, I have the real-world hardware to support sniping but not the in-game stats.

I've noticed that DDO isn't sniper-friendly outside of the tedious Slayer wildernesses and the very rare landscape-style quests such as Irestone Inlet. I've played EverQuest, sampled WoW, still play Guild Wars, have played many first-person-shooters, (have played laser-tag and paintball in reality) and have played a few hours... days... okay, weeks of PnP and I have to say that I love sniping. I want to be able to do so on my off-time while still being at least somewhat useful to my group when it's time to get back to work.

If these two just won't fit together, I can accept that. I just want a second... third... okay, twenty-fourth opinion. Thank you for your time.

[tihocan]

One of the recommendations was Kundarak Search I (quoted above for Thief Acrobat, although this was also found in The Dark Blade and Master Mechanic guides). If I'm understanding this correctly, it seems I need a Dragonmark feat to obtain this enhancement. However, I'm unsure of which feat can be dropped in favor of this. Which one would you recommend?

Thank you for your help!

Sorry about this, it's a mistake in the build. One I'm aware of but I haven't found the time to fix it yet. Just don't take the enhancement.

[tihocan]

I like the way your Tempest build is set up, but I also truly enjoy sniping. I set my Object Draw Distance to Ultra High and snipe without taking aggro and it makes me giggle like a schoolgirl. Sometimes, especially as I get higher in level, it just takes far longer than I'd like. I've never TR'd before, but I want to know before I do so. If I were to start as a Tempest, how many times would I have to TR to incorporate the potential 1-hit ko/severe damage Deepwood Sniper promises while still maintaining a fully functional Tempest? As it stands, I have the real-world hardware to support sniping but not the in-game stats.

I've noticed that DDO isn't sniper-friendly outside of the tedious Slayer wildernesses and the very rare landscape-style quests such as Irestone Inlet. I've played EverQuest, sampled WoW, still play Guild Wars, have played many first-person-shooters, (have played laser-tag and paintball in reality) and have played a few hours... days... okay, weeks of PnP and I have to say that I love sniping. I want to be able to do so on my off-time while still being at least somewhat useful to my group when it's time to get back to work.

If these two just won't fit together, I can accept that. I just want a second... third... okay, twenty-fourth opinion. Thank you for your time.

Well, first of all, currently the Deepwood Sniper line of enhancements sucks. If you want to go with ranged combat, make an Arcane Archer, not a Deepwood Sniper (nor a Tempest).

You can make a good archer without any TR. It's true the Ranger's past life is pretty cool, so you could TR 3 times for +6 to damage with ranged weapon, but it's something you would only do if you can handle the XP grind. You're the only one who knows whether you are up for it or not (personally... I wouldn't).

It seems what you call "sniping" is exploiting the AI to kill stuff at range without them running towards you. It's not something you can do in many places. When ranging, expect that most of the time, your target will go after you. And when in a group, avoid kiting monsters that the rest of the party could easily kill if you weren't running them around in circle

[picaresque]

Adalita: Thanks for that. +1. I decided not to comment any more until I'd had some time to play extensively. Those skills (UMD, Spot, Search, DD) are the ones that are griping me most. My only concern is late game, missing balance. And I like jump, and wish I could have it, but no room. Which brings us to:

EKKM: In retrospect, you're probably right. A tome at level three would have rounded me out, and I'd have that many more skill points. Probably not worth a re-roll though. If I make it to 20, it will figure in the next version of this guy.

This thread is probably the only reason I'm enjoying the game as much as I am. Thanks all.