A note to IntimaTanks

[cdemeritt]

Not all intimatanks are equal... Some are much better than others....

Last night in a PuG ToD, I took my newly reincarnated Intimatank in, and was asked if I could main tank... I said, I think so, explained I just reincarnated him as a intim, and had most of the gear to do the job... I also made it very clear, that this would be my first attempt at Intimatanking in there... Since I was the most quailified for the job, I was main tank.... I didn't do a stellar job... Not horrible, but not Stellar.

Needless to say in Pt3 I had a really hard time keeping Horoths attention... After a few attempts, his aggro seemed to switch between myself and the other fighter (non-intim)... At this point I hear the other fighter say he's going to turn off power attack... This is WRONG to me on many levels....

I've heard this in other raids too, The intim asks everyone to turn off power attack...

My thoughts, if you can't hold aggro with everyones PA on, you shouldn't be tanking... When it became clear to me that the other fighter was holding his aggro much better with DPS, than I could with intim, I let him take over, (ok, not entirely my call, but I was all for it) switched back to DPS. We took him down quickly and easily after that....

If you go into something with a plan to do it one way, that is good, but if it isn't working, don't get upset or be ready to switch things around if needed...

Side Note: after running the ToD, I ran Bastion of power for blood, Intimatanked both end bosses, and had no issue with it... It was a lot of fun to see the marilith swinging all of her attacks and missing, or if she did hit, DR ment 0-3 pts of damage... that fight went much easier than past ones...

[Lehrman]

The basic problem with the intimitank builds is that excessive DPS can steal your aggro. For raids like ToD and VoD, the best tank is the highest HP/DPS character, not the guy with intimidate. The raid leader apparently figured this out when he swapped you out of the main tank position. I do not know the viabilit of a 2-handed weapon intimitank, but it might be the way to go if you do want to be the main tank in VoD or ToD.

[Cashiry]

I do not know the viabilit of a 2-handed weapon intimitank, but it might be the way to go if you do want to be the main tank in VoD or ToD.

I tried this last night with Sulley in ToD... not two handed but was able to TWF in Stalwart Defense(235% Hate Gen) and also intimidate, worked out extremely well... will have to try Horath next...

[Waukeen]

I tried this last night with Sulley in ToD... not two handed but was able to TWF in Stalwart Defense(235% Hate Gen) and also intimidate, worked out extremely well... will have to try Horath next...

my intimitank uses a dps mode, in stalwart stance with TwF + intim as well in mass heal raid situations. It works exceedingly well.

no reason to turtle when there is someone babysitting your hp.

the ability for intim to get through the lag seems to be an issue, its nice to build up the hate so a missed or unregistered (lag) intim doesnt spin the boss.

[MrWizard]

I tried this last night with Sulley in ToD... not two handed but was able to TWF in Stalwart Defense(235% Hate Gen) and also intimidate, worked out extremely well... will have to try Horath next...

watch it on horoth. I tried both ways on my intim and found outside of a medal here and there and one in ten runs a disintegrate, blocking/intimming rocked.

Fighting and intimming left me open to most medals and most spells and my 39 dr went to 6. Massive spell damage and it seems the shield does block many spell effects.
I also hear the 'hate' thing is broken for stalwarts.

good luck on the runs, its fun tanking em isn't it?

[Quikster]

watch it on horoth. I tried both ways on my intim and found outside of a medal here and there and one in ten runs a disintegrate, blocking/intimming rocked.

Fighting and intimming left me open to most medals and most spells and my 39 dr went to 6. Massive spell damage and it seems the shield does block many spell effects.
I also hear the 'hate' thing is broken for stalwarts.

good luck on the runs, its fun tanking em isn't it?

Im not so sure on the tier three hate stance anymore. Will have to test some more, but it seemed that a significant difference was noticed by myself and a few other tanks i have talked too on the latest module.

Somethings maybe different but I havent noticed any difference on spell damage when shield blocking. Though Ive only tanked once since the last mod. Most of the previous times damage was from spells only (spells and badges) and teh occasional hit.

As far as dps tanks go, the reason people need to turn off pa is because the dps tanks dont have that much dps usually. Also some people tend to use stances when off tanking. I dont advise this, madstone up for the same effect and no hate. We have three tanks in the guild that utilize twf hate/dps as their main source of agro control and they rarely lose agro (usually to each other) but can occasionally.

[Quikster]

One other thing, there are subleties each tank has in how they do their job. Im rather new to the serious end game intimitanking so I usually defer to henry when hes in group (and cash though cash and I dont group all that often and rarely when both on our tanks) I still prefer to hate tank myself as its easier. But have tanked my current incarnation in both hound and vod elite, ToD hard, and havent had any issues. A few more pieces of gear and a 110k xp or so and ill get the capstone and will try to hate tank more often with intim being a back up.

Really the only test left is tod elite, I have the stats to do dq epic so im not really concerned with that at all, though the hound shield would be very helpful.

Speaking of which, not sure if you saw I posted in your thread the dc I saw for elite hound cannonfodder.

[spartin]

[QUOTE=Lehrman;2773894]The basic problem with the intimitank builds is that excessive DPS can steal your aggro. QUOTE]

unless this was changed in the last 10 min (just intimied a VoD), that is incorrect. as long as you make you intimidate check, and the target isn't a random aggro enemy (ie sorjek in SoS) you wont loose aggro.

[Narmolanya]

[QUOTE=spartin;2773908]

The basic problem with the intimitank builds is that excessive DPS can steal your aggro. QUOTE]

unless this was changed in the last 10 min (just intimied a VoD), that is incorrect. as long as you make you intimidate check, and the target isn't a random aggro enemy (ie sorjek in SoS) you wont loose aggro.

Still true as far as I know.

I agree with the OP however, if you are not making the intimadate check and someone else is holding aggro better through DPS, and has the hp or ac to hold aggro, a change of tatics may be in order. Why turn of PA?

[Quikster]

...

[Quikster]

I tried this last night with Sulley in ToD... not two handed but was able to TWF in Stalwart Defense(235% Hate Gen) and also intimidate, worked out extremely well... will have to try Horath next...

Yes you did.

unless this was changed in the last 10 min (just intimied a VoD), that is incorrect. as long as you make you intimidate check, and the target isn't a random aggro enemy (ie sorjek in SoS) you wont loose aggro.

Correct. The problem with horoth is getting stunned. Usually if your group isnt a bunch of squishies its no problem. But having an intimidater tank horoth, even making your check, it is still possible for him to turn around. Also, whoever is dealing the big dps will end up with the dots.

[cdemeritt]

The raid leader apparently figured this out when he swapped you out of the main tank position..

Actually, it was a conclusion everyone came to (including myself), on the fly....

I tried this last night with Sulley in ToD... not two handed but was able to TWF in Stalwart Defense(235% Hate Gen) and also intimidate, worked out extremely well... will have to try Horath next...

If you can do it, and keep the aggro, then it is a good tactic... my point is if you can't don't ask the group to reduce DPS so you can.... Change the tactics being used.

I agree with the OP however, if you are making the intimadate check and someone else is holding aggro better through DPS, and has the hp or ac to hold aggro, a change of tactics may be in order. Why turn of PA?

I thought it odd the first time I heard it in a VoD, but when someone told me to turn off PA in a shroud... Why would you want to reduce DPS like that....

[MrWizard]

The basic problem with the intimitank builds is that excessive DPS can steal your aggro. For raids like ToD and VoD, the best tank is the highest HP/DPS character, not the guy with intimidate. The raid leader apparently figured this out when he swapped you out of the main tank position. I do not know the viabilit of a 2-handed weapon intimitank, but it might be the way to go if you do want to be the main tank in VoD or ToD.

I disagree with this statement completely. I do vod, tod, etc all the time with my intim and the only time he ever turns is if I goof up on the intim.

If a ranger is doing crazy insane damage from way far away, that split second between intims could cause a teleporter (like VoD) to zoom to him, but as long as he stays in non teleport range he will not turn.

Sometimes intim can be tricky and it takes time to learn it right. IF you cannot keep him, then he will turn regardless of how much aggro.

Also, people who flank an intimmed monster will cause a 90 to 180 degree facing (ala shroud 5) so they must stay on his back.

For me, outside of the ranger being really far away I always make sure all DPS knows to go full bore and do not stop. If he turns for a second due to my mistake, just keep hitting as I will get him in a second.

If you do not have a high enough intim and do miss now and then...oh boy.

I do not agree that high dps can steal the intim unless you miss the button or it is just for a split second (or a ranger grabs him via range at just the wrong time).

One must have a non fail intim though, even a fail on a one can cause that few second turn.

I will agree an inexperienced person, either dps or intim, can make mistakes while learning the craft.

[cdemeritt]

Ok, since I have you all here, what Intimiate is needed for no-fail on normal in:

Hound
Orthons in VoD
Suul
Horoth
Amarath Trash
other places

[vyvy3369]

Ok, since I have you all here, what Intimiate is needed for no-fail on normal in:

Hound +69
Orthons in VoD ~+40, maybe +45
Suul Either +53 or +55, I forget which - Sally is the same DC as Harry if that helps
Horoth Somewhere around +60 - by the time ToD came out I had to remove items to get that low
Amarath Trash If you can get raid bosses, you should be able to get any level-appropriate trash
other places

Answers in red

[Quikster]

Answers in red

Orthons are somewhere around 35 on normal i believe.

[SquelchHU]

I'm confused. Doesn't intimidate hold aggro without fail for 6 seconds with a 6 second timer?

So wouldn't that mean the intimitank will always have aggro unless 1: He forgets to hit intim again. 2: He fails the check?

As long as he passes on a 1 and isn't late hitting the button he should be fine right? I honestly don't know, I haven't played one before. Of course getting the intimidate score to hold bosses might be easier said than done, but I wasn't aware it was possible for a successful intimidate to not do its job at making targets aggro you for 6 seconds.

[cdemeritt]

So wouldn't that mean the intimitank will always have aggro unless 1: He forgets to hit intim again. 2: He fails the check?

As long as he passes on a 1 and isn't late hitting the button he should be fine right? I honestly don't know, I haven't played one before. Of course getting the intimidate score to hold bosses might be easier said than done, but I wasn't aware it was possible for a successful intimidate to not do its job at making targets aggro you for 6 seconds.

To get an intim to be 100% successful, 100% of the time, for a raid boss, well I'm sure it can be done, just not by everyone... If you fail even one, that is 6 seconds for DPS to steal aggro, and make a mess. so for most part ( I believe) it is a combo of DPS hate tanking, intim, and other to do the trick...

[Waukeen]

I'm confused. Doesn't intimidate hold aggro without fail for 6 seconds with a 6 second timer?

So wouldn't that mean the intimitank will always have aggro unless 1: He forgets to hit intim again. 2: He fails the check?

As long as he passes on a 1 and isn't late hitting the button he should be fine right? I honestly don't know, I haven't played one before. Of course getting the intimidate score to hold bosses might be easier said than done, but I wasn't aware it was possible for a successful intimidate to not do its job at making targets aggro you for 6 seconds.

Timing and spatial recognition of the range of your intim have a lot to do with it. In no/low lag quest situations intiming seemlessly holds aggro, in raids lag can make the game delay or ignore the intim roll you just made, or mostly it seems that the less successful they boss is at damaging you the more it wants to get away. Suulu can be particularly squirrely when turtle intiming him.

[BelVic]

I wish Mrwizard from this thread can come and answer you
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=229182

I am still working on my tank for this raid...trying to be 62 intim and 600+ HP.
But based on my observation from last year when I used to do DQ raids, she seems more likely to stay on intimitank with more guards ( which hit not for much but often).
Vod back in time of lvl 16 was known for switching aggro if somebody use lighting II or manyshot from main tank. So not sure about PA...but quick damage in short time can take aggro from intimitank if he didn't get enough aggro yet. My guess intimidate generate hate aggro over time just like DPS. So if somebody hit him very soon for big damage he can switch. Often when tank is dps based ppl give him some time to get aggro...but when he intimitank nobody wait long enough.. think it can be difference..But nobody know how intimidate mechanism work exactly...don't remember any reply from Turbine about it.